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Noopept fucked my brain up. Please help.

noopept hpa axis dysfunction brain help fucked up

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#1 shadow

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 03:50 AM


Hello guys,

It's really been a painful few months, as I have recently acquired some symptoms which are exceptionally frustrating, and I'm simply unable to handle them properly, hence I beg for your help!

 

  • Terrible memory (short term mostly however overall memory as well), literally to the point where I'd ask a question 2 times in 10 minutes to the same person, because I forgot the answer. (and this happened on many occurances recently).
  • Word recall has become very affected too, where it takes me 7+ seconds to recall a word occasionally.
  • Libido has massively massively decreased! Very hard to obtain an erection without porn usage and keep it even when watching porn. It's like the "pump" (wouldn't know what it's called precisely, when you're finishing your piss and you want those few left drops to go out, you put some pressure with that pump) isn't working well, it's just not that responsive, could be a nerve problem potentially(?) and there's also (very)lower back pain, near the end of the tailbone that activates on attempt to pump more blood into the penis head essentially.

 

What I blame as the suspect - Noopept! (mostly me for being reckless obviously)

 

Read some posts on the internet where other people are experiencing very similar symptoms after cessation of use of racetams/noopept.

 

 

Let me first get into my undocumented-on-paper usage.

 

Was using Noopept solely because I was convinced it was helping with my acne (could have been placebo, but it worked; although I didn't know through exactly which mechanisms, there hasn't been a thought that crossed my mind it could have been dangerous for this effect alone honestly). And there was no notable cognition-improving nor memory-improving effect noticable even slighly, except for remembering every dream, which used to be an uncommon occurance. (Currently I to this day still remember dreams way more frequently than before Noopept).

Dosage was around 1-3 pills opened per day sublingually, each contains 10mg Noopept.

Duration of use was probably around 4-5 months off-and-on, and 1-2 months consistently.

Also I should mention that I was 16-17 at the time, 18 currently.

Last dosage was in June.

 

Done blood work and the file is attached.

It's in Serbian but everything should be understood, else I'll translate it if needed.

3 pages, please check all. Attached File  2633093 (3).pdf   98.72KB   8 downloads

 

 

Read on several places that quitting piracetam/noopept could lead to HPA axis dysfunction, but I couldn't point a finger at it as I've only scratched the surface of researching it today. If any of these symptoms show that it could be the plausible suspect, please do let me know!

 

Also, would mifepristone be of any use here?

 

 

Other than Noopept, there was consumption of occasional Phenibut (1.5g-2.5g, usually 1-2 per week for some time, then it become very irregular and didn't use at all for a long time) and caffeine (4-5 red bulls per day, perhaps more occasionally for a month or so; don't remember whether it's the same month as the consistent noopept usage one, but I quit caffeine cold turkey too and slept for the next 2 days with short pauses essentially).

 

 

If anybody reads this thread, just know that I love you for that alone, and I am genuinely desperate and begging for help. Damn I shouldn't have experimented with such substances at such a young age, and now perhaps I'll have memory problems indefinitely.

 

Kind regards,

shadow


Edited by shadow, 10 September 2016 - 04:08 AM.


#2 Junk Master

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 05:16 AM

Shadow,

 

I've taken Noopept at doses of 30 mg 3x per day for a couple weeks at a time before without any disruption of my HPA axis, not that I am any way recommending that!

 

Also taken 3g of Phenibut 3x per week for extended periods of time, again NOT RECOMMENDING THAT!  In fact, of the two, I'd be much more concerned your libido issues are related to the Phenibut.  While taking it (before I knew any better, back in the old bodybuilding days when it was considered a replacement for GHB) I would experience delayed ejaculation-- not always a bad thing...lol-- and lower back pain/kidney pain is a common side effect of Phenibut.  A google search will confirm.

 

Besides the Phenibut, the 4-5 Red Bull's, perhaps more per day, combined with a couple grams of Phenibut could not have been good for your kidney's, or your urinary tract. Another quick google search will confirm cases of 4-5 Red Bull's a day causing urinary tract irritation, dull lower back pain.  You must have been p****ng like the proverbial race horse!

 

I get the sense from your mention of acne, you are young and in my humble opinion the memory issues and word recall issues you describe might in large part be chalked up to anxiety issues.  Most certainly that much Noopept combined with that much caffeine could not have helped any underlying issues.  In fact, my guess would be your raging hormones combined with the above are probably at the root of your obsessive thinking.

 

So, good news is I really believe if you just discontinue caffeine, focus on regular exercise, good nutrition, and adequate sleep hygiene you will find yourself in a much better state over a few months.

 

What I would NOT do is self-medicate anymore in order to "fix" any lasting damage you have self-diagnosed.

 

Best of luck and I look forward to you reporting back when you do feel yourself.



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#3 thedevinroy

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 10:27 PM

Extensive cortisol release can cause serious memory problems... Not to mention confusion and even minor stroke like symptoms. The brain creates depression to take a break from life.

The treatment is not intuitive to me, maybe it will make sense to you. GABAergics, specifically at the A subtype receptor. This will allow your brain to take a break, recharge its batteries.

Ashwagandha in 50mg of withanolides (do the math per whatever extract you find) peps up my day quite a bit for about 4 to 6 hours. Helps me sleep better too. It is a little GABAergic, but also helps with short term memory and all that.

Did you take any choline with your noopept? I hate to say it but if you are not sleeping enough and taking racetam-like drugs, you could be depleting your acetylcholine to the point of memory problems. Lecithin is a cheap source and works wonderfully well in a heaping tablespoon just twice a day.

#4 viikki

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 05:37 PM

So you overdosed. noopept dot ru tells to only take 2x10mg without mentioning sublingual use. Not 3x10mg sublingually.


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#5 gamesguru

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 07:22 PM

  • Terrible memory (short term mostly however overall memory as well), literally to the point where I'd ask a question 2 times in 10 minutes to the same person, because I forgot the answer. (and this happened on many occurances recently).
  • Word recall has become very affected too, where it takes me 7+ seconds to recall a word occasionally.
  • Libido has massively massively decreased! Very hard to obtain an erection without porn usage and keep it even when watching porn. It's like the "pump" (wouldn't know what it's called precisely, when you're finishing your piss and you want those few left drops to go out, you put some pressure with that pump) isn't working well, it's just not that responsive, could be a nerve problem potentially(?) and there's also (very)lower back pain, near the end of the tailbone that activates on attempt to pump more blood into the penis head essentially.

 

 

 Exp Ther Med. 2016 Jan;11(1):353-359.

Schisandra chinensis and Rhodiola rosea exert an anti-stress effect on the HPA axis and reduce hypothalamic c-Fos expression in rats subjected to repeated stress.

Xia N1, Li J1, Wang H2, Wang J1, Wang Y1.

 

Abstract

The aim of the present study was to investigate the effects of Schisandra chinensis (S. chinensis) and Rhodiola rosea (R. rosea) on rats subjected to 5 h of stress, induced by water-floating followed by treadmill exercise. Hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) activity and c-Fos and Fos-related antigen 2 (Fra-2) mRNA expression levels in the hypothalamus of the rats were evaluated. Rats were distributed into four groups: S. chinensis (n=12), R. rosea (n=10), stress control (n=10) and quiet control (n=8). Following a training period of 6 consecutive days, the S. chinensis, R. rosea and stress control groups underwent a 3-h water-floating session in the presence of feline predators immediately followed by 2 h treadmill running to induce psychological and physical stress. Following compound stress induction, the serum levels of corticosterone (CORT), adrenocorticotropic hormone and interleukin-1β and the mRNA expression levels of hypothalamic corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH), neuropeptide-Y, c-Fos and Fra-2 were evaluated using enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay, radioimmunoassay and quantitative polymerase chain reaction, respectively. The results indicated that S. chinensis and R. rosea markedly decreased the stress-induced elevation of CRH and peripheral CORT levels. The mRNA expression levels of c-Fos and Fra-2 in the hypothalamus were significantly increased after 5 h compound stress, and reduced levels of c-Fos expression were detected in rats treated with R. rosea. Thus, S. chinensis and R. rosea exert an anti-stress effect in rats subjected to stress by balancing the HPA axis, and possibly by reducing the expression of c-Fos in the hypothalamus.

 

J Ethnopharmacol. 2012 Aug 30;143(1):91-9.

Shilajit attenuates behavioral symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome by modulating the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis and mitochondrial bioenergetics in rats.

Surapaneni DK1, Adapa SR, Preeti K, Teja GR, Veeraragavan M, Krishnamurthy S.

  Abstract

 

ETHNOPHARMACOLOGICAL RELEVANCE:

Shilajit has been used as a rejuvenator for ages in Indian ancient traditional medicine and has been validated for a number of pharmacological activities.

AIM OF THE STUDY:

The effect of processed shilajit which was standardized to dibenzo-α-pyrones (DBPs;0.43% w/w), DBP-chromoproteins (DCPs; 20.45% w/w) and fulvic acids (56.75% w/w) was evaluated in a rat model of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). The mitochondrial bioenergetics and the activity of hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis were evaluated for the plausible mechanism of action of shilajit.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:

CFS was induced by forcing the rats to swim for 15mins for 21 consecutive days. The rats were treated with shilajit (25, 50 and 100mg/kg) for 21 days before exposure to stress procedure. The behavioral consequence of CFS was measured in terms of immobility and the climbing period. The post-CFS anxiety level was assessed by elevated plus maze (EPM) test. Plasma corticosterone and adrenal gland weight were estimated as indices of HPA axis activity. Analysis of mitochondrial complex chain enzymes (Complex I, II, IV and V) and mitochondrial membrane potential (MMP) in prefrontal cortex (PFC) were performed to evaluate the mitochondrial bioenergetics and integrity respectively.

RESULTS:

Shilajit reversed the CFS-induced increase in immobility period and decrease in climbing behavior as well as attenuated anxiety in the EPM test. Shilajit reversed CFS-induced decrease in plasma corticosterone level and loss of adrenal gland weight indicating modulation of HPA axis. Shilajit prevented CFS-induced mitochondrial dysfunction by stabilizing the complex enzyme activities and the loss of MMP. Shilajit reversed CFS-induced mitochondrial oxidative stress in terms of NO concentration and, LPO, SOD and catalase activities.

CONCLUSION:

The results indicate that shilajit mitigates the effects of CFS in this model possibly through the modulation of HPA axis and preservation of mitochondrial function and integrity. The reversal of CFS-induced behavioral symptoms and mitochondrial bioenergetics by shilajit indicates mitochondria as a potential target for treatment of CFS.

 

J Ethnopharmacol. 2016 Jul 9. pii: S0378-8741(16)30450-0.

Effect of standardized extract of Bacopa monnieri (CDRI-08) on testicular functions in adult male mice.

Patel SK1, Singh S1, Singh HK2, Singh SK3.

  Abstract

 

ETHNOPHARMACOLOGICAL RELEVANCE:

Bacopa monnieri (BM) has been used in India since the time of Rig-Veda for augmentation of learning, memory, brain health etc.

AIM OF THE STUDY:

The memory augmenting effect of BM is well documented. CDRI-08 is a standardized extract of Bacopa monnieri, but its effect on the male reproductive health has not been investigated. Therefore, the aim of the present study was to examine the effect of CDRI-08 administration on the male reproductive organs with special emphasis on testis in adult mice.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:

CDRI-08, containing at least 55% bacosides (the major constituent of BM), was investigated for its effect on testicular functions in adult Parkes (P) mice. A suspension of CDRI-08 was orally administered in doses of 40 and 80mgkg-1 body weight day-1 for 28 days and various male reproductive end points were evaluated.

RESULTS:

Compared to control, CDRI-08 treatment caused a significant increase (p<0.05) in spermatogenic cell density (germinal epithelial height: control, 55.03±4.22 vs 40mg, 67.15±2.65 and 80mg, 69.93±3.76; and tubular diameter: control, 206.55±2.62 vs 80mg, 253.23±12.19), PCNA index (control, 59.85±2.09 vs 40mg, 82.17±1.56 and 80mg, 84.05±3.51) and in steroidogenic indices in the testis, and in sperm viability (control, 0.67±0.010 vs 80mg, 0.80±0.04) in cauda epididymidis of the treated mice. On the other hand, however, the same treatment caused a significant decrease (p<0.05) in abnormal sperm morphology (control, 21.72±1.06 vs 40mg, 10.63±1.50 and 80mg, 15.86±0.87) in cauda epididymidis, and in lipid peroxidation level in testis of the treated mice compared to controls.

CONCLUSION:

The results suggest that treatment with CDRI-08 extract improves sperm quality, and spermatogenic cell density and steroidogenic indices in the testis of P mice.

 

J Altern Complement Med. 2008 Jul;14(6):707-13

Effects of a standardized Bacopa monnieri extract on cognitive performance, anxiety, and depression in the elderly: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.

Calabrese C1, Gregory WL, Leo M, Kraemer D, Bone K, Oken B.

Abstract

 

OBJECTIVES:

Study aims were to evaluate effects of Bacopa monnieri whole plant standardized dry extract on cognitive function and affect and its safety and tolerability in healthy elderly study participants.

DESIGN:

The study was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial with a placebo run-in of 6 weeks and a treatment period of 12 weeks.

SETTING/LOCATION:

Volunteers were recruited from the community to a clinic in Portland, Oregon by public notification.

SUBJECTS:

Fifty-four (54) participants, 65 or older (mean 73.5 years), without clinical signs of dementia, were recruited and randomized to Bacopa or placebo. Forty-eight (48) completed the study with 24 in each group.

INTERVENTIONS:

Standardized B. monnieri extract 300 mg/day or a similar placebo tablet orally for 12 weeks.

OUTCOME MEASURES:

The primary outcome variable was the delayed recall score from the Rey Auditory Verbal Learning Test (AVLT). Other cognitive measures were the Stroop Task assessing the ability to ignore irrelevant information, the Divided Attention Task (DAT), and the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) letter-digit test of immediate working memory. Affective measures were the State-Trait Anxiety Inventory, Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression scale (CESD)-10 depression scale, and the Profile of Mood States. Vital signs were also monitored.

RESULTS:

Controlling for baseline cognitive deficit using the Blessed Orientation-Memory-Concentration test, Bacopa participants had enhanced AVLT delayed word recall memory scores relative to placebo. Stroop results were similarly significant, with the Bacopa group improving and the placebo group unchanged. CESD-10 depression scores, combined state plus trait anxiety scores, and heart rate decreased over time for the Bacopa group but increased for the placebo group. No effects were found on the DAT, WAIS digit task, mood, or blood pressure. The dose was well tolerated with few adverse events (Bacopa n = 9, placebo n = 10), primarily stomach upset.

CONCLUSIONS:

This study provides further evidence that B. monnieri has potential for safely enhancing cognitive performance in the aging.

 

Phytother Res. 2014 Apr;28(4)

An acute, double-blind, placebo-controlled cross-over study of 320 mg and 640 mg doses of Bacopa monnieri (CDRI 08) on multitasking stress reactivity and mood.

Benson S1, Downey LA, Stough C, Wetherell M, Zangara A, Scholey A.

 

Abstract

Little research exists in humans concerning the anxiolytic, antidepressant, sedative, and adaptogenic actions the traditional Ayurvedic medicine Bacopa monnieri (BM) possesses in addition to its documented cognitive-enhancing effects. Preclinical work has identified a number of acute anxiolytic, nootropic, and adaptogenic effects of BM that may also co-occur in humans. The current double-blind, placebo-controlled cross-over study assessed the acute effects of a specific extract of BM (KeenMind® - CDRI 08) in normal healthy participants during completion of a multitasking framework (MTF). Seventeen healthy volunteers completed the MTF, at baseline, then 1 h and 2 h after consuming a placebo, 320 mg BM and 640 mg of BM. Treatments were separated by a 7-day washout with order determined by Latin Square. Outcome measures included cognitive outcomes from the MTF, with mood and salivary cortisol measured before and after each completion of the MTF. Change from baseline scores indicated positive cognitive effects, notably at both 1 h post and 2 h post BM consumption on the Letter Search and Stroop tasks, suggesting an earlier nootropic effect of BM than previously investigated. There were also some positive mood effects and reduction in cortisol levels, pointing to a physiological mechanism for stress reduction associated with BM consumption. It was concluded that acute BM supplementation produced some adaptogenic and nootropic effects that need to be replicated in a larger sample and in isolation from stressful cognitive tests in order to quantify the magnitude of these effects. The study was registered with the Australian and New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry



#6 Junk Master

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 04:24 PM

So, its been over a month now since Shadow started this thread and my guess is he's feeling normal again, or if he isn't I'd love to hear an update.



#7 aurenzzi

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 06:08 PM

Noopept was a no-op for me, did nothing, useless. If I had paid for it I would have felt cheated, but I received a free sample from one of my regular suppliers.



#8 Khaorg

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 06:13 PM

I'd love to hear an update too. Especially that I am on Noopept for about 3 months.
I take 3 mini spoons (15-20 mg each) sublingually.
 
This is not my first trial but longest one. I haven't got any side effect. 
When I started I had sometimes the brain fog but when I added Alcar and Alpha GPC it disappeared.
In my opinion it works better after long term use and you need to use that for at least 1 month to see some difference.


#9 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 08:12 PM

I guarantee you my nuts that this is 100% a manifestation of some sort of underlying anxiety than the moderate dosage of Noopept he took, or the occasion Phenibut usage. For those reading this taking Noopept who are worried, please don't.

 

The fact that he hasn't been back is extremely telling,



#10 gamesguru

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 11:39 PM

what if he gave up on us?  is sublingual more effective?  it is kind of a large dose.



#11 Flex

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 02:14 AM

If its in any way helpful, heres the mechanism of action:

 

Molecular Mechanism Underlying the Action of Substituted Pro-Gly Dipeptide Noopept

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4837574/

 

In short, Its either increased expression and/or activation of HIF-1.


Edited by Flex, 18 October 2016 - 02:15 AM.


#12 jack black

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 02:54 AM

 

The fact that he hasn't been back is extremely telling,

 

is it? i could never figure out. on one hand it could mean it was just some kind of BS or joke. on the other hand it could mean it was very serious and the OP is too incapacitated to return and tell us more. and then you have all those scenarios in between (his samsung phone caught on fire, dog bit his network cable, etc).

 

but, i agree with you. people who report psychosis after trying some benign substance probably had preexisting mental problems in the first place.


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#13 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 07:28 AM

 

 

The fact that he hasn't been back is extremely telling,

 

is it? i could never figure out. on one hand it could mean it was just some kind of BS or joke. on the other hand it could mean it was very serious and the OP is too incapacitated to return and tell us more. and then you have all those scenarios in between (his samsung phone caught on fire, dog bit his network cable, etc).

 

but, i agree with you. people who report psychosis after trying some benign substance probably had preexisting mental problems in the first place.

 

 

:-D







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