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i have Asperger Syndrome, now what?

asperger syndrome

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#1 jack black

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 07:00 PM


no, no one told me. i self diagnosed myself. i actually asked a few "professionals" about it way back when i trusted the system and i was told that i have either dysthymia or adjustment disorder, depending whom i asked (I specifically asked for help 1 general physician, 2 different psychologists, and 1 psychiatrist).

 

my frustration and disgust with the current mental disease establishment is covered in a separate thread, so i'm not going to dwell about it now:

http://www.longecity...rders-is-wrong/

 

anyhow, the most helpful thing for my selfdiagnosis was this acticle: http://www.pathfinde...allenging-world

 

I haven't seen anything as well written about AS. the description fits 100% my whole life story as well as one of my kids, who have seen 4 different psychologists and 1 psychiatrist (not counting the usual pediatric or family practice visits) and was diagnosed with dyslexia, ADHD, anxiety, and depression depending whom asked.

 

there was also brainstorming with farware in his thread:

http://www.longecity...-vs-antagonist/

and in our PMs that made me highly consider autism as part of my problems again.

 

actually, my 23andMe data was disappointing showing 4 SNPs associated with increased autism, 2 SNPs associated with decreased autism, and 2 SNPs associated with normal autism risk.

 

here is the breakdown of the typical AS traits (copied from: http://www.help4aspe...p_4a3112c8.html ). My agreement with those is 100%:

 

Personal / Physical

  • Repetitive routines or rituals
  • Can engage in tasks (sometimes mundane ones) for hours and hours
  • Flat, or blank expression much of the time
  • Doesn't always recognize faces right away (even close loved ones)
  • Strong sensitivity to sound, touch, taste, sight, and smell (e.g. fabrics—won’t wear certain things, fluorescent lights)
  • Sensitivity to the texture of foods 
  • Eccentric personality
  • Idiosyncratic attachment to inanimate objects
  • Being "in their own world" / Preoccupied with their own agenda
  • Highly gifted in one or more areas, e.g. math, music, etc
  • Single-mindedness
  • Likes and dislikes can be very rigid
  • Can spend hours in the library researching, loves learning and information
  • May have difficulty staying in college despite a high level of intelligence
  • Limited interests / Intense focus on one or two subjects
  • Unusual preoccupations
  • Collects things
  • Clumsiness / Uncoordinated motor movements
  • Speech and language peculiarities / hyperlexia (little professors) or, early in life may have a speech impediment
  • Non-verbal communication problems: difficulty reading body language, facial expression and tone
  • Word repetition (they may frequently repeat what you've just said)
  • Excellent rote memory

FOCUSING ON THE POSITIVE:

  1. Focus and diligence – The Asperger ability to focus on tasks for a long period of time without needing supervision or incentive is legendary.
  2. Internal motivation – as opposed to being motivated by praise, money, bills or acceptance. This ensures a job done with conscience, with personal pride.
  3. Independent, unique thinking – people with AS tend to spend a lot of time alone and will likely have developed their own unique thoughts as opposed to a ‘herd’ mentality.
  4. Higher fluid intelligence – scientists in Japan have recently discovered that AS children have a higher fluid intelligence than non-autistic children. Fluid intelligence is "the ability to find meaning in confusion and solve new problems. It is the ability to draw inferences and understand the relationships of various concepts, independent of acquired knowledge.” (Wikipedia 2009) Experts say that those with AS have a higher than average general IQ as well.
  5. Visual, three-dimensional thinking – some with AS are very visual in their thought processes, which lends itself to countless useful and creative applications.
  6. Attention to detail – sometimes with painstaking perfection.
  7. Honesty – the value of being able to say “the emperor isn’t wearing any clothes.”
  8. Logic over emotion – although people with AS are very emotional at times, we spend so much time ‘computing’ in our minds that we get quite good at it. We can be very logical in our approach to problem-solving.

Relationships

  • We can often be distant physically and/or emotionally.
  • Often are attracted to another purely because they are attracted to us
  • Alternatively, we can be obsessive
  • May have a hard time saying I love you, showing physical affection
  • We can be very critical
  • We takes things personally
  • We can be very loyal to one person
  • Often times we will make no motions to keep a friendships going
  • We need to withdraw and have solitude
  • Men in particular find emotions messy and unquantifiable; If partner tries to share her love for him, he may find her need to “connect” smothering
  • Our attention is narrowly focused on our own interests
  • Men with undiagnosed AS often feel as if their partner is being ungrateful or “bitchy” when she complains he is uncaring or never listens to her
  • He can become quite defensive when she asks for clarification or a little sympathy. The defensiveness can turn into verbal abuse (usually not physical abuse) as the man attempts to control the communication to suit his view of the world.

Social Interactions

  • Desire for friendships and social contact but difficulty acquiring and maintaining them
  • Shuts down in social situations
  • Social withdrawal / may avoid social gatherings
  • Lack of interest in other people
  • Lack of empathy at times
  • Difficulty understanding others’ feelings
  • Can obsess about having friends to prove they’re “normal”
  • Rigid social behavior due to an inability to spontaneously adapt to variations in social situations
  • Has an urge to inform that can result in being blunt / insulting
  • Preoccupied with their own agenda
  • Great difficulty with small-talk and chatter

As a bonus, I also have gut issues (IBS, food intolerance) and poor autobiographical memory typical for autism.

 

After assuring myself I have AS (believe me, i've been looking for answers to my problems for a long time) i don't feel any relief. I'm actually sad it took me that long to get the definitive answer (i'm middle aged and my kid who has the same problem is a young adult). I first suspected that 20 years ago after watching a PBS documentary on Temple Grandin. But I had my doubts as i was not as severe case as hers. I also suspected that after i read John Elder Robison's "Look Me in the Eye" because well, I had difficulty looking at peoples eyes (my dad had that too, in retrospect i inherited that from him), over 10 years ago, but was not sure anymore (i was treated with SSRI for the "dysthymia" at that time).

 

anyhow, my almost daily stack includes NAC, piracetam, Vits Bs (mega doses)+D+E+C, Mg, DHEA, clomifene (low T), allopurinol (gout), grapeseed extract, fish oil, ashwaghanda, lamictal (mood swings), metformin (prediabetes), lactobacillus reuteri, and now also amandadine (for ADHD-like issues). the current stack helps me cover most of my issues, but I'm also considering farware's protocol including tianeptine, P5P, and vit K2. I try to eat no gluten and low carbs, but my compliance is only so-so.

 

so, if any of you have any suggestions or comments, i'm all ears.

Thanks!

 

PS: I love the TV shows "The big bang theory," "Freaks and geeks," and "Seinfeld."  I used to love sci-fi and anything technology, but it's fading with aging some.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by jack black, 25 September 2016 - 07:18 PM.

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#2 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 06:29 AM

You're trying your best to make the autism diagnosis fit you. I wonder why that is, since there are so many things which are very close to the diagnosis, with so many similarities and only small differences. Could it be that you've associated a social status with being autistic, so being autistic may even be a plus while being anything on the schizo- spectrum is a minus? This seems to be the case for most people. Autism is just an excuse for bad behavior or certain dysfunctions in those that self-diagnose it.

 

I had all the developmental issues associated with it. I had all the clear signs of it, yet I wasn't given the diagnosis. When I speak to people who actually have the diagnosis it's pretty apparent what a ridiculous and useless diagnosis it has become. There are people with many sexual partners, many friends, with no real difficulties compared to the general population, who supposedly somehow are still autistic - who were slowly developed and have "serious" social and cognitive dysfunctions. Yea right! Just ridiculous. 

 

Autism is the new psychopathy. If your boyfriend doesn't want to share his feelings with you or doesn't listen to you, it's because he's a Secret Autist. It's not by chance that you can't go on forums for autism and talk about autism as a disease or something to be treated, or make politically incorrect statements about race or gender. The diagnosis is for the overly social people, those who are obsessed with social status.

 

As for the symptoms you listed, it appears as if you see them as being "wrong," which is very rare for people who actually get the diagnosis as they tend to view these things as preferable. They don't like socializing or social people.

 

It's a personal question that you don't have to answer, but let me ask: Do you have any friends? Have you had any sexual partners?


Edited by RatherBeUnknown, 26 September 2016 - 06:34 AM.

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#3 jack black

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 12:00 PM

It's a personal question that you don't have to answer, but let me ask: Do you have any friends? Have you had any sexual partners?

Sure i dont mind. I don't have real friends and this is why I hang on sites like this. Dealing with my dysfunctional family is too much already. First time I had sex was in college and I had a total of 3 partners in the entire life (one was just a one night stand).

As for the other things you said, it's so wrong I'm not going to even discuss it.

BTW, I forgot to mention NAG in my stack.

Edited by jack black, 26 September 2016 - 12:51 PM.

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#4 gamesguru

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:09 PM

Assuming it really is aspergers and not the diagnostically-similar condition, schizotypy.. you have a few options short of therapy and medicine:

An open-label pilot study of a formulation containing the anti-inflammatory flavonoid luteolin and its effects on behavior in children with autism spectrum disorders.
Taliou A1, Zintzaras E, Lykouras L, Francis K. (2013)

BACKGROUND: Accumulating evidence suggests an association between autism spectrum disorders (ASD) and inflammation in brain regions related to cognitive function. The natural flavonoid luteolin has antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, mast cell-blocking, and neuroprotective effects. It was shown to improve cognitive performance in a mouse model of ASD, but its effect in humans has not been adequately studied.
OBJECTIVES: The goal of this study was to assess the effectiveness and tolerability in white children with ASD of a dietary supplement containing 2 flavonoids (>95% pure), luteolin (100 mg/capsule, from chamomile) and quercetin (70 mg/capsule), and the quercetin glycoside rutin (30 mg/capsule) from the Sophora japonica leaf, formulated in olive kernel oil to increase oral absorption.
METHODS: Fifty children (4-10 years old; 42 boys and 8 girls) with ASD were enrolled in a 26-week, prospective, open-label trial at the 2nd University Department of Psychiatry at "Attikon" General Hospital, Athens, Greece. Children were referred for the study by their respective physicians or came from the practice of the senior author. ASD diagnosis by clinical assessment was based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision, symptom list and corroborated by using the Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule. The dose of the study formulation used was 1 capsule per 10 kg weight per day with food. The primary outcome measures were the age-equivalent scores in the Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scales domains. Secondary outcomes included the Aberrant Behavior Checklist, the Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklist, and the Clinical Global Impression-Improvement score. Data were measured at baseline, week 18, and week 26. Parents were interviewed for any possible improvements they noticed and instructed to report any unusual adverse events.
RESULTS: A total of 40 children completed the protocol. There was a significant improvement in adaptive functioning as measured by using the VABS age-equivalent scores (8.43 months in the communication domain, 7.17 months in daily living skills, and 8 months in the social domain; P < 0.005), as well as in overall behavior as indicated by the reduction (26.6%-34.8%) in Aberrant Behavior Checklist subscale scores. Age, sex, and history of allergies had no effect on the results, whereas the initial level of functioning or difficulty did predict the final outcome in most of the measures used. There was a transient (1-8 weeks) increased irritability in 27 of the 50 participants.
CONCLUSIONS: These results are encouraging in that the combination of the flavonoids luteolin and quercetin seemed to be effective in reducing ASD symptoms, with no major adverse effects.


Therapeutic potency of bee pollen against biochemical autistic features induced through acute and sub-acute neurotoxicity of orally administered propionic acid.
Al-Salem HS, Bhat RS, Al-Ayadhi L, El-Ansary A (2016)

BACKGROUND: It is now well documented that postnatal exposure to certain chemicals has been reported to increase the risk of autism spectrum disorder. Propionic acid (PA), as a metabolic product of gut microbiotaandas a commonly used food additive, has been reported to mediate the effects of autism. Results from animal studies may help to identify environmental neurotoxic agents and drugs that can ameliorate neurotoxicity and may thereby aid in the treatment of autism. The present study investigated the ameliorative effects of natural bee pollen against acute and sub-acute brain intoxication induced by (PA) in rats.
METHODS: Twenty-four young male Western Albino ratswere enrolled in the present study. They were classified into four equal groups, eachwith6 rats. The control group received only phosphate buffered saline; the oral buffered PA-treated groups (II and III) received a neurotoxic dose of 750 mg/kg body weight divided in 3 dose of 250 mg/kg body weight/day serving asthe acute group and 750 mg/kg body weight divided in 10 equal dose of 75 mg/kg body weight/day as the sub-acute group. The fourth group received 50 mg bee pollen for 30 days after PA-acute intoxication.
RESULTS: The obtained data showed that the PA-treated groups demonstrated multiple signs of brain toxicity, as indicated by a depletion of serotonin (5HT), dopamine and nor-adrenaline, together withan increase in IFN-γ and caspase 3. Bee pollen was effective in ameliorating the neurotoxic effect of PA. All measured parameters demonstrated minimal alteration in comparison with thecontrol animal than did those of acute and sub-acute PA-treated animals.
CONCLUSIONS: In conclusion, bee pollen demonstrates anti-inflammatory and anti-apoptotic effects while ameliorating the impaired neurochemistry of PA-intoxicated rats.


Supplementation of Korean Red Ginseng improves behavior deviations in animal models of autism
Edson Luck T. Gonzales, Jong-Hwa Jang (2016)

BACKGROUND: Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is heterogeneous neurodevelopmental disorders that primarily display social and communication impairments and restricted/repetitive behaviors. ASD prevalence has increased in recent years, yet very limited therapeutic targets and treatments are available to counteract the incapacitating disorder. Korean Red Ginseng (KRG) is a popular herbal plant in South Korea known for its wide range of therapeutic effects and nutritional benefits and has recently been gaining great scientific attention, particularly for its positive effects in the central nervous system.
OBJECTIVES: Thus, in this study, we investigated the therapeutic potential of KRG in alleviating the neurobehavioral deficits found in the valproic acid (VPA)-exposed mice models of ASD.
DESIGN: Starting at 21 days old (P21), VPA-exposed mice were given daily oral administrations of KRG solution (100 or 200 mg/kg) until the termination of all experiments. From P28, mice behaviors were assessed in terms of social interaction capacity (P28–29), locomotor activity (P30), repetitive behaviors (P32), short-term spatial working memory (P34), motor coordination (P36), and seizure susceptibility (P38).
RESULTS: VPA-exposed mice showed sociability and social novelty preference deficits, hyperactivity, increased repetitive behavior, impaired spatial working memory, slightly affected motor coordination, and high seizure susceptibility. Remarkably, long-term KRG treatment in both dosages normalized all the ASD-related behaviors in VPA-exposed mice, except motor coordination ability.
CONCLUSION: As a food and herbal supplement with various known benefits, KRG demonstrated its therapeutic potential in rescuing abnormal behaviors related to autism caused by prenatal environmental exposure to VPA.


First preliminary results of an observation of Panax ginseng treatment in patients with autistic disorder.
Niederhofer H (2009)

Autism is a pervasive developmental disorder, with impairments in reciprocal social interaction and verbal and nonverbal communication. There is often the need of psychopharmacological intervention in addition to psychobehavioral therapies, but benefits are limited by adverse side effects. For that reason, Panax ginseng, which is comparable with Piracetam, a substance effective in the treatment of autism, was investigated for possible improvement of autistic symptoms. There was some improvement, which suggests some benefits of Panax ginseng, at least as an add-on therapy.

A double-blind placebo controlled trial of piracetam added to risperidone in patients with autistic disorder.
Akhondzadeh S1, Tajdar H, Mohammadi MR, Mohammadi M, Nouroozinejad GH, Shabstari OL, Ghelichnia HA. (2008)

It has been reported that autism is a hypoglutamatergic disorder. Therefore, it was of interest to assess the efficacy of piracetam, a positive modulator of AMPA-sensitive glutamate receptors in autistic disorder. About 40 children between the ages three and 11 years (inclusive) with a DSM IV clinical diagnosis of autism and who were outpatients from a specialty clinic for children were recruited. The children presented with a chief complaint of severely disruptive symptoms related to autistic disorder. Patients were randomly allocated to piracetam + risperidone (Group A) or placebo + risperidone (Group B) for a 10-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. The dose of risperidone was titrated up to 2 mg/day for children between 10 and 40 kg and 3 mg/day for children weighting above 40 kg. The dose of piracetam was titrated up to 800 mg/day. Patients were assessed at baseline and after 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 weeks of starting medication. The measure of the outcome was the Aberrant Behavior Checklist-Community (ABC-C) Rating Scale (total score). The ABC-C Rating Scale scores improved with piracetam. The difference between the two protocols was significant as indicated by the effect of group, the between subjects factor (F = 5.85, d.f. = 1, P = 0.02). The changes at the endpoint compared with baseline were: -11.90 +/- 3.79 (mean +/- SD) and -5.15 +/- 3.04 for group A and B respectively. A significant difference was observed on the change in scores in the ABC-C Rating Scale in week 10 compared with baseline in the two groups (t = 6.017, d.f. = 38, P < 0.0001). The results suggest that a combination of atypical antipsychotic medications and a glutamate agent such as piracetam, might have increase synergistic effects in the treatment of autism.

Is autism a disorder of fatty acid metabolism? Possible dysfunction of mitochondrial beta-oxidation by long chain acyl-CoA dehydrogenase.
Clark-Taylor t, Clark-Taylor B (2004)

Long chain acyl-CoA dehydrogenase (LCAD) has recently been shown to be the mitochondrial enzyme responsible for the beta-oxidation of branched chain and unsaturated fatty acids [Biochim. Biophys. Acta 1393 (1998) 35; Biochim. Biophys. Acta 1485 (2000) 121]. Whilst disorders of short, medium and very long chain acyl dehydrogenases are known, there is no known disorder of LCAD deficiency in humans. Experimental LCAD deficiency in mice shows an acyl-carnitine profile with prominent elevations of unsaturated fatty acid metabolites C14:1 and C14:2 [Hum. Mol. Genet. 10 (2001) 2069]. A child with autism whose acyl-carnitine profile also shows these abnormalities is presented, and it is hypothesized that the child may have LCAD deficiency. Additional metabolic abnormalities seen in this patient include alterations of TCA energy production, ammonia detoxification, reduced synthesis of omega-3 DHA, and abnormal cholesterol metabolism. These metabolic changes are also seen as secondary abnormalities in dysfunction of fatty acid beta-oxidation, and have also been reported in autism. It is hypothesized that LCAD deficiency may be a cause of autism. Similarities between metabolic disturbances in autism, and those of disorders of fatty acid beta-oxidation are discussed.

Omega 3 fatty acid treatment in autism.
Meiri G1, Bichovsky Y, Belmaker RH. (2009)

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to determine the efficacy and safety of omega-3 fatty acids for children with autistic spectrum disorder (ASD).
METHODS: This was an open-label pilot study. Ten children aged 4-7 years old with ASD according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4(th) edition (DSM-IV), were given 1 gram daily of omega-3 fatty acids for 12 weeks. The main outcome measure used was the Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklist (ATEC). These data were collected between July, 2006, and June, 2007.
RESULTS: Of the 9 subjects who completed the study, 8 showed improvement of about 33% on the Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklist (ATEC). None worsened and no side effects were reported.
CONCLUSIONS: Omega-3 fatty acids appear to be safe and might be helpful for children suffering from ASD. Further study is needed with a larger number of children in a double-blind design and with various doses of omega-3 fatty acids.


St John's Wort treating patients with autistic disorder.
Niederhofer H (2009)

Problems of eye contact and expressive language limit the effectiveness of educational and behavioral interventions in patients suffering from pervasive developmental disorders. For that reason, additive psychopharmacological interventions are sometimes needed to improve symptomatology. In our preliminary open trial, three male patients with autistic disorder, diagnosed by ICD-10 criteria, completed an open trial of St John's Wort. Subjects were included in the study if their eye contact and expressive language was inadaequate for their developmental level and if they had not tolerated or responded to other psychopharmacologic treatments (methylphenidate, clonidine or desipramine). Parent and mentor ratings on the Aberrant Behavior Checklist, irritability, stereotypy, and inappropriate speech factors improved slightly during treatment with St John's Wort. Clinician ratings (Psychiatric Rating Scale Autism, Anger and Speech Deviance factors; Global Assessment Scale; Clinical Global Impressions efficacy) did not improve significantly. St John's Wort was only modestly effective in the short-term treatment of irritability in some patients with autistic disorder.

Preliminary investigation of lithium for mood disorder symptoms in children and adolescents with autism spectrum disorder.
Siegel M1, Beresford CA, Bunker M, Verdi M, Vishnevetsky D, Karlsson C, Teer O, Stedman A, Smith KA. (2014)

OBJECTIVE: Children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) have higher rates of comorbid psychiatric disorders, including mood disorders, than the general child population. Although children with ASD may experience irritability (aggression, self-injury, and tantrums), a portion also experience symptoms that are typical of a mood disorder, such as euphoria/elevated mood, mania, hypersexuality, paranoia, or decreased need for sleep. Despite lithium's established efficacy in controlling mood disorder symptoms in the neurotypical population, lithium has been rarely studied in children with ASD.
METHODS: We performed a retrospective chart review of 30 children and adolescents diagnosed with ASD by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th ed., Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR) criteria who were prescribed lithium in order to assess target symptoms, safety, and tolerability. Clinical Global Impressions - Improvement (CGI-I) ratings were performed by two board-certified child psychiatrists with expertise in ASD. CGI-I scores were dichotomized into "improved" (CGI-I score of 1 or 2) or "not improved" (CGI-I score ≥3).
RESULTS: Forty-three percent of patients who received lithium were rated as "improved" on the CGI-I. Seventy-one percent of patients who had two or more pretreatment mood disorder symptoms were rated as "improved." The presence of mania (p=0.033) or euphoria/elevated mood (p=0.041) were the pretreatment symptoms significantly associated with an "improved" rating. The mean lithium blood level was 0.70 mEq/L (SD=0.26), and the average length of lithium treatment was 29.7 days (SD=23.9). Forty-seven percent of patients were reported to have at least one side effect, most commonly vomiting (13%), tremor (10%), fatigue (10%), irritability (7%), and enuresis (7%).
CONCLUSIONS: This preliminary assessment of lithium in children and adolescents with ASD suggests that lithium may be a medication of interest for those who exhibit two or more mood disorder symptoms, particularly mania or euphoria/elevated mood. A relatively high side effect rate merits caution, and these results are limited by the retrospective, uncontrolled study design. Future study of lithium in a prospective trial with treatment-sensitive outcome measures may be indicated.


Improvement of neurobehavioral disorders in children supplemented with magnesium-vitamin B6. II. Pervasive developmental disorder-autism.
Mousain-Bosc M1, Roche M, Polge A, Pradal-Prat D, Rapin J, Bali JP. (2006)

Previous studies reported positive results with the use of Mg-vitamin B6 in autism. Despite these reports, this intervention remains controversial. In order to study relationships between changes in clinical symtoms and biological parameters, 33 children (mean age: 4 [1-10] years old) with clinical symptoms of pervasive developmental disorder or autism (PDD, as defined in DSM-IV) were followed for at least 6 months; another group of 36 children (same age) devoided of any known pathology was used as control. All PDD children received a magnesium-vit B6 (Mg-B6) regimen (6 mg/kg/d Mg and 0.6 mg/kg/d vit B6). Intraerythrocyte Mg2+ (Erc-Mg), serum Mg2+ (s-Mg) and blood ionized Ca2+ (i-Ca) were measured before and after treatment. Clinical symptoms of PDD were scored (0 to 4). In contrast to s-Mg or i-Ca, PDD children exhibited significantly lower Erc-Mg values than controls (2.17 +/- 0.4 versus 2.73 +/- 0.23 mmol/L; 16/33). The Mg-B6 regimen led to an increase in Erc-Mg values (2.42 +/- 0.41 (after) versus 2.17 +/- 0.4 mmol/l (before), 11/17) and this supplementation improved PDD symptoms in 23/33 children (p < 0.0001) with no adverse effects: social interactions (23/33), communication (24/33), stereotyped restricted behavior (18/33), and abnormal/delayed functioning (17/33); 15/33 children were improved in the first three groups of symptoms. When the Mg-B6 treatment was stopped, PDD symtoms reappeared in few weeks. A statistically significant relationship was found in Erc-Mg values from children before treatment and their mothers. In conclusion, this study suggests that the behavioral improvement observed with the combination vitamin B6-magnesium in PDD/autism is associated with concomitant modifications of Erc-Mg values.

The role of zinc and copper in autism spectrum disorders.
Bjorklund G1 (2013)

Autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) are a group of developmental disabilities that can cause significant social, communication and behavioral challenges. Several studies have suggested a disturbance in the copper (Cu) and zinc (Zn) metabolism in ASDs. Zinc deficiency, excess Cu levels, and low Zn/Cu ratio are common in children diagnosed with an ASD. The literature also suggests that mercury accumulation may occur as a cause or consequence of metallothionein (MT) dysfunction in children diagnosed with an ASD, which may be one of the causes of Zn deficiency. MTs are proteins with important functions in metal metabolism and protection. Zinc and Cu bind to and participate in the control of the synthesis of MT proteins. Studies indicate that the GABAergic system may be involved in ASDs, and that Zn and Cu may play a role in this system.


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#5 tunt01

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:34 PM

del'd


Edited by prophets, 26 September 2016 - 05:22 PM.

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#6 jack black

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:16 PM

You could become a gay pornstar and put out the gay-scat film series: "Asperbergers and Assburgers".

 

was it supposed to be funny?

what is Asperbergers?


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#7 tunt01

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:23 PM

 

was it supposed to be funny?

what is Asperbergers?

 

 

I apologize.  It was in extremely poor taste.  I didn't get a lot of sleep last night.


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#8 thedevinroy

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:41 PM

AS was not included in the DSM-V in hopes that the more severe cases could fall under treatment for autism, covered by insurance, while the higher functioning cases would fall under "social communication disorder" (SCD) and go the route of normal therapy for social issues.

Most people with ADHD have symptoms of AS because of the lack of motivation for things uninteresting, which makes connecting on normal topics of interest a bit harder. ADHDers also do not have full access to the range of emotions that a normal person does (because of low prefrontal cortex activity), so a decrease or lack of feelings of empathy, passion, love, fear, etc. is found prevalent in both disorders.

What truly differentiates the autistic from ADHD+SCD is the repetitive behaviors. Someone without true Autism does not tend to have repetitive behaviors in the same way. If you truly do have the repetitive behaviors characteristic of autism, you should really embrace that as your new plan of attack.

Edited by devinthayer, 26 September 2016 - 06:01 PM.

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#9 jack black

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:46 PM

 

Assuming it really is aspergers and not the diagnostically-similar condition, schizotypy..

 


 

 

from https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Schizotypy

 

 

  1. Unusual experiences: The disposition to have unusual perceptual and other cognitive experiences, such as hallucinations, magical or superstitious belief and interpretation of events (see also delusions).
  2. Cognitive disorganization: A tendency for thoughts to become derailed, disorganised or tangential (see also formal thought disorder).
  3. Introverted anhedonia: A tendency to introverted, emotionally flat and asocial behaviour, associated with a deficiency in the ability to feel pleasure from social and physical stimulation.
  4. Impulsive nonconformity: The disposition to unstable mood and behaviour particularly with regard to rules and social conventions.

 

1. Nope.

2. Only sometimes.

3. No, quite a range of emotions. AS folks yearn for social interactions, they just suck at it and get burned out.

4. Not really sure what that means. if Impulsive nonconformity means a desire to be different from average people, then sometimes yes, but if it means violent and reckless behaviors, then no.


Edited by jack black, 26 September 2016 - 05:49 PM.

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#10 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:56 PM

 

 

Assuming it really is aspergers and not the diagnostically-similar condition, schizotypy..

 


 

 

from https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Schizotypy

 

 

  1. Unusual experiences: The disposition to have unusual perceptual and other cognitive experiences, such as hallucinations, magical or superstitious belief and interpretation of events (see also delusions).
  2. Cognitive disorganization: A tendency for thoughts to become derailed, disorganised or tangential (see also formal thought disorder).
  3. Introverted anhedonia: A tendency to introverted, emotionally flat and asocial behaviour, associated with a deficiency in the ability to feel pleasure from social and physical stimulation.
  4. Impulsive nonconformity: The disposition to unstable mood and behaviour particularly with regard to rules and social conventions.

 

1. Nope.

2. Only sometimes.

3. No, quite a range of emotions. AS folks yearn for social interactions, they just suck at it and get burned out.

4. Not really sure what that means. if Impulsive nonconformity means a desire to be different from average people, then sometimes yes, but it means violent and reckless behaviors, then no.

 

Asperger's IS characterized by a lack of desire for friendship and love. That IS a part of the diagnosis. Because some who were diagnosed with it still have friends doesn't change the diagnosis (actually, it often does, but it shouldn't).

As for those schizotypy symptoms, I don't have most of it besides the affective issues, social withdrawal, etc, yet I was diagnosed with the personality disorder based on those things mainly.

 

Based upon your having had sex before, having had friends, and also other details, I think it would be ridiculous to give you a diagnosis of anything on the autistic spectrum.


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#11 thedevinroy

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 06:50 PM

Section B is the part I was talking about: https://www.autismsp...nostic-criteria
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#12 jack black

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 06:50 PM

AS was not included in the DSM-V in hopes that the more severe cases could fall under treatment for autism, covered by insurance, while the higher functioning cases would fall under "social communication disorder" (SCD) and go the route of normal therapy for social issues.

Most people with ADHD have symptoms of AS because of the lack of motivation for things uninteresting, which makes connecting on normal topics of interest a bit harder. ADHDers also do not have full access to the range of emotions that a normal person does (because of low prefrontal cortex activity), so a decrease or lack of feelings of empathy, passion, love, fear, etc. is found prevalent in both disorders.

What truly differentiates the autistic from ADHD+SCD is the repetitive behaviors. Someone without true Autism does not tend to have repetitive behaviors in the same way. If you truly do have the repetitive behaviors characteristic of autism, you should really embrace that as your new plan of attack.

 

good points. i didn't know why they removed AS from the current DSM. I have to read more on the "social communication disorder."

 

Re: the repetitive behavior part, i think i had one as a child. as a young child I spent lots of time playing outdoors alone and i kept throwing rocks and bouncing them in my hands. that relaxed me. even as late as teenager i liked to lay down and bounce ball like objects by my hands and feet. I also had some weird eating rituals that i slowly learned to overcome.

 

another weird thing is while i have the novelty seeking thing, there are some other things that has to be done exactly my way or I'm not comfortable. 
 


Edited by jack black, 26 September 2016 - 07:02 PM.

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#13 jack black

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 07:01 PM

 

 

from https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Schizotypy

 

 

  1. Unusual experiences: The disposition to have unusual perceptual and other cognitive experiences, such as hallucinations, magical or superstitious belief and interpretation of events (see also delusions).
  2. Cognitive disorganization: A tendency for thoughts to become derailed, disorganised or tangential (see also formal thought disorder).
  3. Introverted anhedonia: A tendency to introverted, emotionally flat and asocial behaviour, associated with a deficiency in the ability to feel pleasure from social and physical stimulation.
  4. Impulsive nonconformity: The disposition to unstable mood and behaviour particularly with regard to rules and social conventions.

 

1. Nope.

2. Only sometimes.

3. No, quite a range of emotions. AS folks yearn for social interactions, they just suck at it and get burned out.

4. Not really sure what that means. if Impulsive nonconformity means a desire to be different from average people, then sometimes yes, but it means violent and reckless behaviors, then no.

 

Asperger's IS characterized by a lack of desire for friendship and love. That IS a part of the diagnosis.

 

 

I disagree.

 

look at my first post:

 

 

Social Interactions

  • Desire for friendships and social contact but difficulty acquiring and maintaining them

 


Edited by jack black, 26 September 2016 - 07:01 PM.

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#14 gamesguru

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 07:53 PM

Schizotypy and aspergers are characterized by difficulties forming and maintaining relations, both friendly and romantic, general impairments, both social and communicative.  I'm not bullshitting you guys, the overlap between diagnostic criteria is so extensive that even trained specialists can mistake one condition for the other.  I would even go so far as to say schizotypy and autism are on the same axis or spectrum[1], [2], cases present themselves which do not firmly fit either diagnosis, but loosely fit both.  On a scale of one to schizotype, he's about an autistic.

 

One of the differences is in the general mating strategy, schizotypes are more often layabout badboy, aggressive lonewolf prowlers while autistics are oftener monogamous status-driven, obedient beta male providers.  The impulsive nonconformity manifests itself in a risky way.  In the words of the researchers...

In this view, schizotypy is a psychological phenotype oriented toward high mating effort and reduced parenting, consistent with a fast life history strategy, whereas autistic-like traits contribute to a slow strategy characterized by reduced mating effort and high parental investment.

 

Other symptoms used to differentiate the two include (these being unique to schizotypy, obviously): odd or unkempt appearance, magical or superstitious thoughts, ideas of reference (to the self).  Generally, schizotypy is the more severe disorder, involving more psychotic symptoms, with the selling point of having at least a bit (albeit totally inconsistent and unpredictable) of social savviness.


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#15 jack black

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 08:15 PM

One of the differences is in the general mating strategy, schizotypes are more often layabout badboy, aggressive lonewolf prowlers while autistics are oftener monogamous status-driven, obedient beta male providers.  The impulsive nonconformity manifests itself in a risky way.  In the words of the researchers...

In this view, schizotypy is a psychological phenotype oriented toward high mating effort and reduced parenting, consistent with a fast life history strategy, whereas autistic-like traits contribute to a slow strategy characterized by reduced mating effort and high parental investment.

 

 

LOL, this is actually funny. I'll ask my wife if i'm a layabout badboy, aggressive lonewolf prowler or a monogamous status-driven, obedient beta male provider

and report back with her answer.

 

but seriously speaking, i don't see or feel that overlap you're talking about. it feels like a completely different personality, except for that odd or unkempt appearance, also common in AS. i sympathize more with the ADHD/AS overlap devinthayer was talking about.
 


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#16 gamesguru

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 09:38 PM

Ooh, someone's getting a divorce.  But the magical thinking can be very mild, and kept secret or just not brought light to, like (generally) social withdrawal, which is hard to notice from the outside.  These symptoms are literally invisible to the untrained eye.  But the social and communication impairment are central features.  So while the causes may differ, the main apparent symptoms are the same.  That's where the overlap comes from.  Afaik, both disorders also feature flat affect, social anhedonia and impaired facial recognition.

[Differential diagnosis between Schizotypal Personality Disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorders: a case report].
Ünver B, Öner Ö, Yurtbaşı P. (2015)

Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by social and interpersonal deficits marked by discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior. Inappropriate or constricted affect, reduced capacity for relationships, lack of close friends and reduced capacity for social life are the symptoms that overlap both schizotypal personality disorder and autism spectrum disorders. The making of differential diagnosis may be difficult since several symptoms are similar between these disorders. In this study, we discussed the differential diagnosis issues on the basis of an adolescent case. Odd appearance, magical thoughts, reference thoughts suggests Schizotypal Personality Disorder whereas lack of eye contact at 2 years old, a preference to be isolated and play alone and referral to a child psychiatrist at 4 years old suggest Autism Spectrum Disorders. Based on the results of psychological assessment, Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Revised (WISC-R) profile is compatible with autistic children's profiles. Based on Schizotypal Personality Questionnaire, the patient's anxiety, lack of close friends, constricted affect symptoms which take place in the category of interpersonal schizotypy seems to overlap with lack of communication of Autism Spectrum Disorders. This case report indicates that, separation of autism and schizophrenia, a very important historical breakthrough in autism research, may be blurred in cases with less typical clinical pictures representing autistic and schizophrenic "spectrum" diagnosis.



#17 jack black

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 10:32 PM

 

Ooh, someone's getting a divorce.  But the magical thinking can be very mild, and kept secret or just not brought light to, like (generally) social withdrawal, which is hard to notice from the outside.  These symptoms are literally invisible to the untrained eye.  But the social and communication impairment are central features.  So while the causes may differ, the main apparent symptoms are the same.  That's where the overlap comes from.  Afaik, both disorders also feature flat affect, social anhedonia and impaired facial recognition.

[Differential diagnosis between Schizotypal Personality Disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorders: a case report].
Ünver B, Öner Ö, Yurtbaşı P. (2015)

Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by social and interpersonal deficits marked by discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior. Inappropriate or constricted affect, reduced capacity for relationships, lack of close friends and reduced capacity for social life are the symptoms that overlap both schizotypal personality disorder and autism spectrum disorders. The making of differential diagnosis may be difficult since several symptoms are similar between these disorders. In this study, we discussed the differential diagnosis issues on the basis of an adolescent case. Odd appearance, magical thoughts, reference thoughts suggests Schizotypal Personality Disorder whereas lack of eye contact at 2 years old, a preference to be isolated and play alone and referral to a child psychiatrist at 4 years old suggest Autism Spectrum Disorders. Based on the results of psychological assessment, Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Revised (WISC-R) profile is compatible with autistic children's profiles. Based on Schizotypal Personality Questionnaire, the patient's anxiety, lack of close friends, constricted affect symptoms which take place in the category of interpersonal schizotypy seems to overlap with lack of communication of Autism Spectrum Disorders. This case report indicates that, separation of autism and schizophrenia, a very important historical breakthrough in autism research, may be blurred in cases with less typical clinical pictures representing autistic and schizophrenic "spectrum" diagnosis.

 

 

it least i know i don't have that magical thinking.

i guess what your case proves, you can have individuals with both conditions at the same time.


 


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#18 gamesguru

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 11:38 PM

Perhaps both, perhaps neither.  Either way the data suggests existing conditions, as defined, do not have a guaranteed 1:1 correspondence to every individual.  You see a similar mis-classification with severe personality disorders.   Anybody who meets the criteria for two, three, or more.. just diagnose him with SCD, ADD and depression and call it good.  Except it might be inaccurate.  Devon was spot on about the repetitive behaviors, although they are easier to treat than the communication problems.

... a doctor might describe a young person as showing social and communication difficulties requiring very substantial support, but restricted or repetitive behavior that requires much less support.

 

As for all the talk about a lack of emotions, a borderline diagnosis can bring those right back to life.  Particularly the negative ones.

 

And as far as the "magical" thinking, I don't think I have it, but that wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.. but the point is, you don't need to satisfy every criteria, only like 50-80% of the symptoms need to be present, in order to meet diagnostic standards.  From wiki:

There is a high rate of comorbidity with other personality disorders. McGlashan et al. (2000) stated that this may be due to overlapping criteria with other personality disorders, such as avoidant personality disorder, paranoid personality disorder and borderline personality disorder.[23]

There are many similarities between the schizotypal and schizoid personalities. Most notable of the similarities is the inability to initiate or maintain relationships (both friendly and romantic). The difference between the two seems to be that those labeled as schizotypal avoid social interaction because of a deep-seated fear of people. The schizoid individuals simply feel no desire to form relationships, because they see no point in sharing their time with others.


Edited by gamesguru, 27 September 2016 - 12:07 AM.


#19 thedevinroy

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 03:03 AM

I just don't feel the need to think in terms of AS if there is pretty clear distinction of Autism, since that is financially the better option for treatment and at least in the USA, employment benefits, test-taking benefits, etc. The anti discrimination laws are pretty awesome. The criteria is pretty cut and dry for the restricted/repetitive patterns: you need two to qualify. I was considering getting tested for AS (an atypical awkward geeky guy) when I read that it is no longer in the DSM. When I looked at the criteria for Autism, I was discouraged to even try because maybe I have intense interests but none of the other stuff.

Someone once said that their theory was that ADHD is on the spectrum ever so slightly, and that you really can't have one without having the other. It was an interesting notion but more philosophical than scientific at this point. Genetics and more importantly epigenetics are the true markers for the normative or disordered, yet we haven't made the complete shift to quantify disorders outside of society and into science. Disease is still subjectively defined, and a disorder is just a subcategory. Back to the original point, you can't really have ADHD and not have some gravitation towards your own unique interests since you don't have the mental capacity to be mundane... I mean, it all makes a lot of sense to see all the overlaps between the spectrum and ADHD.

I think we're it differentiates is in the severity and the ability to outgrow it. 50% outgrow ADHD to the point where they no longer need medication or abnormal regimes to be mentally healthy and functional in society. I've never heard of someone outgrowing Autism.

The social communication aspect is another mystery for me. I have really terrible moments and really clear moments. I just accept that I am not going to make everyone understand me, nor accept me, so it is just as important to be on the top of my game mentally and emotionally so that when you cannot get it right, you can laugh at the wrong or have a canned excuse like "oh I must be tired". Which I am, most of the time. It's not so much important as to what you say than as to how others feel, and if you focus on that, with whatever little social aptitude you have left, you can set the right mood. Most people do have nervousness, and if they are well kempt, good posture, and look together - all you have to do is keep them that way by being relaxed and cordial. It's boring but it works. Going too outside the norm makes people nervous, unfortunately. You have to wait until they're drunk and saying stupid things before you can let out the weird stuff in your head.

That's pretty much how I deal with it. And if you are the beta male guy, which happens, just remember that what other people say can be weird, too. People can stop judging you if they know they are light-heartedly judged. I'm not saying to point out quirks, but I am saying to break the tension by smiling and showing your interpretation of how or what they said when you get the chance in a very accepting way (smiling like you liked it). People like to hear about themselves, and the more they think about how they are coming across, the less they are thinking about you. It sets you up for inside jokes and stuff, too.
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#20 gamesguru

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 03:08 PM

Everybody needs a system to make it work.  So do you tick any disabilities on your job apps, devin?

 

The repetitive behavior is such a vague criteria (everybody does it) and one that it helps to recognize in early childhood... same with the slow learning of language.  But when they learn just fine, it's easily confused with something like SCD + SCT/ADD.  Another thing that can obscure the diagnosis in a schizotypal patient is OCD, which mimics some of the repetitive behaviors and adversely affects the outcome[1].  So some of these people are being slapped with a high-functioning autism label, as adults (if not ADHD and whatnot).  So there's a lot more overlap that first meets the eye.



#21 thedevinroy

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 03:37 PM

Everybody needs a system to make it work. So do you tick any disabilities on your job apps, devin?

The repetitive behavior is such a vague criteria (everybody does it) and one that it helps to recognize in early childhood... same with the slow learning of language. But when they learn just fine, it's easily confused with something like SCD + SCT/ADD. Another thing that can obscure the diagnosis in a schizotypal patient is OCD, which mimics some of the repetitive behaviors and adversely affects the outcome[1]. So some of these people are being slapped with a high-functioning autism label, as adults (if not ADHD and whatnot). So there's a lot more overlap that first meets the eye.


I am not able to check off any of those disabilities or any status warranting discrimination protection. I am a white middle class male, so if anything, I already get too many benefits in comparison to everyone else just because the heuristics are in my favor. It's wrong to say that people trust me with responsibility and honor me with potential because I'm a white male, but it is actually true over and over again. I've seen women and minorities in this industry get stomped on and never put in leadership roles. I haven't had one minority boss my entire working career, and the only female boss was portrayed as a lazy finger pointer by my coworkers. Would it benefit me if I was able to tick off Autism as a disability? Sure, maybe it would if people realized that I have such a hard time focusing on mundane activities they should just be removed and the lack of not doing them won't get me fired and I can get the help I need to accommodate push them... but it would also pigeon hole me in areas where I want to grow as a person!

All those things are labels used to describe a set of symptoms outside the normative that seemed to be grouped together. They are tools of understanding the person and providing an opportunity to be a higher contributing member of society. If the labels help, then use them, but otherwise, do something else that matters.
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#22 farware

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 04:34 PM

As I mentioned in the other thread  autism was one considered a subtype of schizophrenia. 

 

There is overlap between ADHD <-> ASD <-> Schizoprhenia 

 

I also see overlap between

 

Auto-immune <-> ASD <-> Celiac <-> Arthritis

 

It most certainly starts in the gut. Schizophrenia seems to affect mostly the brain but could start as an auto-immune disease in the gut with very few symptoms and move upward to the brain via the vargus nerve. The are cases where ASD is just a precursor to Schizophrenia. Question is why does that not happen in everyone with ASD then? 

 

Ontopic:

 

Anyway, Asperger seems particular difficult to diagnose. I dated a women with Aspergers (didn't know before) and was surprised how normal she was. There are most certainly ranges - some can be very mild, impossible to diagnose but with most of the symptoms outlined in the first post. 

 

Found it a little ironic that I was attracted to a women with Aspergers (yes, I believe you can pick that up from a photo by the way, wasn't there supposed to be some tech that would diagnose people with depression / SCD on Facebook? Kind of creepy)  I am struggling with many of the symptoms .. most likely due to celiac thou which can cause autistic behavior. I have Hashimoto, mild acne, mild depression, tingling in hands, don't gain weight, white spots on fingernails, malnutrition, all signs of celiac disease. So if you have any of those symptoms make sure to check your gene profile for celiac too.  

 

 

 


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#23 thedevinroy

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 04:52 PM

As I mentioned in the other thread autism was one considered a subtype of schizophrenia.

There is overlap between ADHD <-> ASD <-> Schizoprhenia

I also see overlap between

Auto-immune <-> ASD <-> Celiac <-> Arthritis

It most certainly starts in the gut. Schizophrenia seems to affect mostly the brain but could start as an auto-immune disease in the gut with very few symptoms and move upward to the brain via the vargus nerve. The are cases where ASD is just a precursor to Schizophrenia. Question is why does that not happen in everyone with ASD then?

Ontopic:

Anyway, Asperger seems particular difficult to diagnose. I dated a women with Aspergers (didn't know before) and was surprised how normal she was. There are most certainly ranges - some can be very mild, impossible to diagnose but with most of the symptoms outlined in the first post.

Found it a little ironic that I was attracted to a women with Aspergers (yes, I believe you can pick that up from a photo by the way, wasn't there supposed to be some tech that would diagnose people with depression / SCD on Facebook? Kind of creepy) I am struggling with many of the symptoms .. most likely due to celiac thou which can cause autistic behavior. I have Hashimoto, mild acne, mild depression, tingling in hands, don't gain weight, white spots on fingernails, malnutrition, all signs of celiac disease. So if you have any of those symptoms make sure to check your gene profile for celiac too.

. A family member has celiac since they could eat food. Definitely has difficulty gaining weight, also is quite short. When people talk about their stories of celiac, I just can't compare it to theirs - it was life or death.

Anyway, I hear you on the Asperger's. People with it as adults are just a little more in their own world, a little more awkward (which can be charming if they mean well) and then especially women have the hormonal advantage of estrogen to improve social performance. Hard to tell, and honestly, it wouldn't be socially acceptable to slap that label on someone even if you were pretty sure.

#24 farware

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 05:35 PM

 

As I mentioned in the other thread autism was one considered a subtype of schizophrenia.

There is overlap between ADHD <-> ASD <-> Schizoprhenia

I also see overlap between

Auto-immune <-> ASD <-> Celiac <-> Arthritis

It most certainly starts in the gut. Schizophrenia seems to affect mostly the brain but could start as an auto-immune disease in the gut with very few symptoms and move upward to the brain via the vargus nerve. The are cases where ASD is just a precursor to Schizophrenia. Question is why does that not happen in everyone with ASD then?

Ontopic:

Anyway, Asperger seems particular difficult to diagnose. I dated a women with Aspergers (didn't know before) and was surprised how normal she was. There are most certainly ranges - some can be very mild, impossible to diagnose but with most of the symptoms outlined in the first post.

Found it a little ironic that I was attracted to a women with Aspergers (yes, I believe you can pick that up from a photo by the way, wasn't there supposed to be some tech that would diagnose people with depression / SCD on Facebook? Kind of creepy) I am struggling with many of the symptoms .. most likely due to celiac thou which can cause autistic behavior. I have Hashimoto, mild acne, mild depression, tingling in hands, don't gain weight, white spots on fingernails, malnutrition, all signs of celiac disease. So if you have any of those symptoms make sure to check your gene profile for celiac too.

. A family member has celiac since they could eat food. Definitely has difficulty gaining weight, also is quite short. When people talk about their stories of celiac, I just can't compare it to theirs - it was life or death.

Anyway, I hear you on the Asperger's. People with it as adults are just a little more in their own world, a little more awkward (which can be charming if they mean well) and then especially women have the hormonal advantage of estrogen to improve social performance. Hard to tell, and honestly, it wouldn't be socially acceptable to slap that label on someone even if you were pretty sure.

 

 

It is fairly well established that you can get celiac at any age IF you have the genes for it. It's also well established that if you have an existing auto-immune disease then it's likely you will develop celiac at one point if it is not treated properly. Don't really know what to believe at this point. In medicine no diagnosis is ever precise and it's really astounding how little modern medicine has progressed since the 60's.  



#25 Junk Master

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 06:05 PM

Coming from a father of a 15 year old with Asperger's, who has been his primary caregiver his entire life, and who along the way recognized I share many similar traits, my favorite quote about Asperger's (Autistic Spectrum Disorder...whatever), is from Dr. Stephen Shore, "If you've met one person with Autism, you've met one person with Autism."

 

Personally, I suspect the type of person who gravitates to this site, and especially to this sub-forum, has a much higher chance of being somewhere on the Spectrum that the vast majority of the general public.  I know there are a number of openly diagnosed, and self-diagnosed members here but I'd love to hear some speculation on the actual percentage!


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#26 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 06:09 AM

Personally, I suspect the type of person who gravitates to this site, and especially to this sub-forum, has a much higher chance of being somewhere on the Spectrum that the vast majority of the general public.  I know there are a number of openly diagnosed, and self-diagnosed members here but I'd love to hear some speculation on the actual percentage!

The European, Caucasian population has genetic predispositions to hyperemotionality and hyperactivity, social withdrawal (especially in the Nordic, Finnish population), violent behavior, obsessiveness and much more.

If you try hard enough then you can superficially fit most of Europeans into some psychiatric diagnosis.


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#27 gamesguru

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 10:26 AM

To answer junk master's question, I would estimate 1.5x fewer neurotypicals gravitate here (75% of the background population is thought to be healthy, while 50% here), in other words, "the city" is half the quagmire of tinder (25% healthy).  It's all because of those Finns.

 

"It most certainly starts in the gut... and moves up the vagus nerve."  Lol @ the comparison of aspergers to celiacs.  The only thing they share in common is the fact that they're naturally treatable.  Autism is actually a congenital condition (determined at birth), while celiac is acquired (by a combination of environmental factors).  Might early gut problems be linked to autism?  Perhaps.  But we're talking early.  I don't know about the suggestion that autism is caused (but what if you argued it's made worse?) by autoimmune load or consumption of certain foods as an adult.

 

Last point I want to make, to backtrack a bit... the autistic beta male has stubbornly career-oriented values.  Brought up on traditional morals, he's perfectly content being the beta male guy.  He doesn't want to be alpha or sigma, and no one's gonna convince him otherwise.



#28 farware

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 11:08 AM

To answer junk master's question, I would estimate 1.5x fewer neurotypicals gravitate here (75% of the background population is thought to be healthy, while 50% here), in other words, "the city" is half the quagmire of tinder (25% healthy).  It's all because of those Finns.

 

"It most certainly starts in the gut... and moves up the vagus nerve."  Lol @ the comparison of aspergers to celiacs.  The only thing they share in common is the fact that they're naturally treatable.  Autism is actually a congenital condition (determined at birth), while celiac is acquired (by a combination of environmental factors).  Might early gut problems be linked to autism?  Perhaps.  But we're talking early.  I don't know about the suggestion that autism is caused (but what if you argued it's made worse?) by autoimmune load or consumption of certain foods as an adult.

 

Last point I want to make, to backtrack a bit... the autistic beta male has stubbornly career-oriented values.  Brought up on traditional morals, he's perfectly content being the beta male guy.  He doesn't want to be alpha or sigma, and no one's gonna convince him otherwise.

 

Asperger's is naturally treatable? That would be news to me. Please read the other thread to see how many similarities ASD and celiac have. There's a huge overlap. It has to do with the epithelial cells that ALSO get damaged when you have celiac. Since you don't seem to acknowledge that I can't really take your opinion on that seriously, sorry.

 

There is a clear link between oxidative damage and ASD / celiac as well so dismissing that is incredibly short-sighted. 

 

It is also good to know that certain substances that act on the brain (Acetylcholine in particular) also seem to act on the gut and other parts of the body e.g. legs. How else would you explain that certain nootropics help to lower inflammation in arthritis? There's a connection somewhere and mainstream medicine continues to ignore it. 



#29 gamesguru

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 12:05 PM

Did you see my first post with all the natural supplements?  And therapy is "natural" too.

 

"It has to do with the epithelial cells"  Which ones, where?  And how does having a vaguely similar action on epithelial cells constitute a "huge overlap?"  The only relevant citation I could pin down for autism was very preliminary.  Studies involving celiac, gluten and epithelial cells were more definite[1] in their associations between gluten and epithelial differentiation, while reviews on the effectiveness of special GF-CF diets in autism are far less definite[2], [3].

The possible link between elevated serum levels of epithelial cell-derived neutrophil- activating peptide-78 (ENA-78/CXCL5) and autoimmunity in autistic children
Gehan Ahmed Mostafacorresponding author and Laila Yousef AL-Ayadhi (2015)

Background: In autoimmune disorders, the underlying pathogenic mechanism is the formation of antigen-antibody complexes which trigger an inflammatory response by inducing the infiltration of neutrophils. Epithelial cell-derived neutrophil-activating peptide-78 (ENA-78) is a chemokine that recruits and activates neutrophils, thus it could play a pathogenic role in inflammation and autoimmune disorders. Some autistic children have elevated levels of brain specific auto-antibodies. We are the first to evaluate serum expression of ENA-78 and its relation to antineuronal auto-antibodies in autistic children.
Methods: Serum ENA-78 and antineuronal auto-antibodies were measured by ELISA test in 62 autistic children aged between 4–11 years and 62 health-matched controls.
Results: Serum levels of ENA-78 were significantly higher in autistic children than healthy controls (P < 0.001). Increased serum levels of ENA-78 have been found in 69.35% of autistic patients. In addition, autistic children had significantly higher percent positivity of serum antineuronal auto-antibodies (64.5%) than healthy controls (6.45%), P < 0.001. There was a significant positive association between the positivity of serum antineuronal auto-antibodies and the elevated levels of serum ENA-78 (P < 0.001) in autistic children.
Conclusions: Serum levels of ENA-78 were elevated in autistic children and they were significantly associated with the increased levels of serum antineuronal auto-antibodies. However, these data should be treated with caution until further research is conducted to determine the pathogenic role of ENA-78 in autism and its relation to brain specific auto-antibodies that have been found in some autistic children. The possible therapeutic role of ENA-78 antagonist in autistic children should be also studied.

 

 

There is a clear link between cancer and oxidation, yet to suggest this as grounds to associate it with ASD or celiac.. that would be incredibly short-sighted.  I might observe the number of pirates in the Gulf of Mexico to be on the rise, and I might observe the same for Earth's temperature.  Yet no one is suggesting the two are cause and effect, they are rather random associations or coincidences.

 

So what if acetycholine is found in the gut and the brain, so are iron and mercury.  Did you also know the vagus nerve connects the organs to the brain and weakly/vaguely affects thoughts and emotions?  But please, don't use it to try to compare autism to celiac


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#30 farware

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 01:08 PM

Did you see my first post with all the natural supplements?  And therapy is "natural" too.

 

"It has to do with the epithelial cells"  Which ones, where?  And how does having a vaguely similar action on epithelial cells constitute a "huge overlap?"  The only relevant citation I could pin down for autism was very preliminary.  Studies involving celiac, gluten and epithelial cells were more definite[1] in their associations between gluten and epithelial differentiation, while reviews on the effectiveness of special GF-CF diets in autism are far less definite[2], [3].

The possible link between elevated serum levels of epithelial cell-derived neutrophil- activating peptide-78 (ENA-78/CXCL5) and autoimmunity in autistic children
Gehan Ahmed Mostafacorresponding author and Laila Yousef AL-Ayadhi (2015)

Background: In autoimmune disorders, the underlying pathogenic mechanism is the formation of antigen-antibody complexes which trigger an inflammatory response by inducing the infiltration of neutrophils. Epithelial cell-derived neutrophil-activating peptide-78 (ENA-78) is a chemokine that recruits and activates neutrophils, thus it could play a pathogenic role in inflammation and autoimmune disorders. Some autistic children have elevated levels of brain specific auto-antibodies. We are the first to evaluate serum expression of ENA-78 and its relation to antineuronal auto-antibodies in autistic children.
Methods: Serum ENA-78 and antineuronal auto-antibodies were measured by ELISA test in 62 autistic children aged between 4–11 years and 62 health-matched controls.
Results: Serum levels of ENA-78 were significantly higher in autistic children than healthy controls (P < 0.001). Increased serum levels of ENA-78 have been found in 69.35% of autistic patients. In addition, autistic children had significantly higher percent positivity of serum antineuronal auto-antibodies (64.5%) than healthy controls (6.45%), P < 0.001. There was a significant positive association between the positivity of serum antineuronal auto-antibodies and the elevated levels of serum ENA-78 (P < 0.001) in autistic children.
Conclusions: Serum levels of ENA-78 were elevated in autistic children and they were significantly associated with the increased levels of serum antineuronal auto-antibodies. However, these data should be treated with caution until further research is conducted to determine the pathogenic role of ENA-78 in autism and its relation to brain specific auto-antibodies that have been found in some autistic children. The possible therapeutic role of ENA-78 antagonist in autistic children should be also studied.

 

 

There is a clear link between cancer and oxidation, yet to suggest this as grounds to associate it with ASD or celiac.. that would be incredibly short-sighted.  I might observe the number of pirates in the Gulf of Mexico to be on the rise, and I might observe the same for Earth's temperature.  Yet no one is suggesting the two are cause and effect, they are rather random associations or coincidences.

 

So what if acetycholine is found in the gut and the brain, so are iron and mercury.  Did you also know the vagus nerve connects the organs to the brain and weakly/vaguely affects thoughts and emotions?  But please, don't use it to try to compare autism to celiac

 

There is no cure for Aspergers, it is only managable, not treatable. It is a genetic defect. And both celiac and Asperger share many comorbid symtpoms including auto-immune thyroid disorder, gluten sensitivity, reaction to bright light and sound. All of those symptoms are not only part of Aspergers but of Celiac as well. So yes, ASD and celiac should be compared with each other and discussed in more detail since both involve villous atrophy

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24068245

 

Although this study found no association between CD or inflammation and earlier ASDs, there was a markedly increased risk of ASDs in individuals with normal mucosa but a positive CD serologic test result.

 

 

It shows that you haven't done enough research on it and or don't suffer from either celiac or Asperger, else you would see the HUGE overlap.






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