25 replies to this topic

[Baten]

Considering a relatively low number of conducted studies on the influence of TT on athletes, especially with regard to the effect on performance and androgenic status, one should stress the lack of evidence to show an enhancing effect of the use of TT on expected biomedical properties in humans. Contradictory results of aforementioned studies suggest that marketing opinions about TT as a testosterone enhancer are unsubstantiated. Therefore, there are athletes who use it in order to improve their performance. It is caused by intensive advertising encouraging TT usage, which may only result in a temporary placebo effect. For that reason, further clinical trials should be carried out in the future.

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I'm currently taking 3x 400mg of 50% saponin content extract (Bulgarian Tribulus from vemoherb) a day. Thats 1200mg's worth 600mg of saponins.

I don't feel a thing, honestly. Perhaps a slight libido boost in the first days.

 

I think this must be the snake oil among sports supplements. It might be healthy for liver/kidney functions and your body as a whole, but other than that..

Edited by Baten, 18 October 2016 - 11:47 AM.

[shifter]

Is there any official evidence that it does actually raise the level of luteinising hormone which indirectly raises testosterone to keep the right balance? Whether or not it would relate to an actual 'feeling' or real world sports performance however is another thing.

I don't feel any energy benefit from it but I do feel like it does something with my emotional level on terms of libido

[Baten]

There's this (limited) study

 

 There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

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Edited by Baten, 19 October 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

You can't test androgen receptor sensitivity in people as far as I know so it's much more complicated. Androgen receptor sensitivity does play a big role, just try sexual abstinence and see for yourself.

[Galaxyshock]

I get bad nausea from Tribulus, but I seem to feel some androgenic boost from it.

[John250]

Most natural testosterone boosters just contain herbs that help slightly with libido so people think their testosterone is increasing. The only thing I found a sect of that increasing natural testosterone levels D-Aspartic acid at 3-3.5g

[Galaxyshock]

Tribulus should increase DHT levels through 5α-reductase promotion, and DHT while not particularly anabolic is strongly androgenic and raises levels of both adrenaline and GABA providing that male controlled aggression. Not sure how strong tribulus is at this though, but I do feel it, placebo or not.

[John250]

Yah it will help a little. Also a small or moderate dose of boron can help. I like a little dhea as well. Around 25-50mg

Edited by John250, 01 June 2018 - 06:25 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I used to take boron when a botanical product contained it but they changed the formula. It now contains:

 

Maca

Nettle extract

Ashwagandha extract

White button mushroom extract

Muira Puama extract

Fenugreek extract

Pygeum africanum extract

Rhodiola extract

Holy basil

Cordyceps extract

Pycnogenol

Zinc

 

I get some boost in libido, drive and wellbeing from this. Also a fuller feeling in muscles.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 02 June 2018 - 10:14 AM.

[Phoebus]

Most natural testosterone boosters just contain herbs that help slightly with libido so people think their testosterone is increasing. The only thing I found a sect of that increasing natural testosterone levels D-Aspartic acid at 3-3.5g

 

huh, so you actually tested your T levels and found that  D-Aspartic acid raised them? 

[Galaxyshock]

D-aspartic acid gave me symptoms of painful anxiety-depression through NMDA-activation I assume. It is pretty effective compound though, I liked the enhanced feeling it gave but couldn't continue because of the side effects.

[John250]

huh, so you actually tested your T levels and found that D-Aspartic acid raised them?

I’m on testosterone replacement therapy so it wouldn’t have an effect on me. There a few studies showing and increase but some also contradict it. But quite a few natural friends of mine who are pretty experienced can feel the increase. You can use it for 3 months and then take 3-4 weeks off as T levels will remain elevated for 3-4 weeks from a study I read but I can’t find it now.

Edited by John250, 02 June 2018 - 06:15 PM.

[funkdakarma]

I actually felt a bit of a libido surge and improved erections after Trib. It was either that or the Mucuna powder, but I’m pretty sure the Trib played a part.

The only issue is it made me drop weight considerably.

I think the bottom line is that different supplements affect people differently. It’s all about trial and error.

[Galaxyshock]

I started taking Tribulus again and I like it. It gives me calm and energetic feeling with more manly confidence.

[funkdakarma]

That’s the key to an improved libido, I guess. Call and confidence makes all the difference.

[Galaxyshock]

That’s the key to an improved libido, I guess. Call and confidence makes all the difference.

 

Pretty much, and having some excitement is good too.

 

I have 250 gram bag of Tribulus extract standardized to 40% saponins that costed only $10.75. I take 1000 mg once or twice a day.

 

The side effect of nausea seems to have disappeared.

[funkdakarma]

What else seems to work for you? It seems like we might have similar constitutions/mental make-ups. I'm a firm believer that stuff affects different people differently.

 

For example, I've tried Yohimbine and I think it's quite constrictive on erections. The adrenaline rush makes me nervous.

 

I prefer stuff that relaxes me, and as you said gives a calm confidence. Nothing too stimulatory. I've found small amounts of 5-HTP sometimes brought back that ease, and I think it's linked to the fact that antidepressants did some temporary damage, so it helps to repair the neurons.

 

 

[John250]

3mg boron is good for increasing testosterone and that dose shouldn’t aromatize much so estrogen shouldn’t be a concern.

[Galaxyshock]

What else seems to work for you?

 

Suma Root is good one. Libido, wellbeing, shield against stress, and I consider it a mild anabolic as I can add up to 10 kgs in basic compound movements like rows and squats within two weeks when starting Suma. It also gives that full feeling and look in muscles, even the bigger guys took notice of my arms when I took Suma and had a pump going. Damn, now I need to order some.

[funkdakarma]

Suma Root is good one. Libido, wellbeing, shield against stress, and I consider it a mild anabolic as I can add up to 10 kgs in basic compound movements like rows and squats within two weeks when starting Suma. It also gives that full feeling and look in muscles, even the bigger guys took notice of my arms when I took Suma and had a pump going. Damn, now I need to order some.

 

Thanks. I'm not so worried about muscle gain as I am about heightening arousal. 

 

By the way I did take Tribulus again after a few days off, and I found it to be too stimulatory for my liking, perhaps because I've been taking Yohimbine in the meantime. Or it could be the Maca.

 

Basically, I've realized that the more relaxed I am, the better the sensations, my performance, everything. Stimulatory stuff is counterproductive for me, as it makes me anxious.

[John250]

If you want libido try some topical DHT

[Rocket]

If you want libido try some topical DHT

DHT based anabolics have never done anything for my rats libido. The first deca cycle my rat was insanely always in the mood.

I don't think dht is the fixer of libido. Just one piece of a large tapestry of neurotransmitters.

Edited by Rocket, 29 July 2018 - 01:32 AM.

[funkdakarma]

If you want libido try some topical DHT

 

No, thanks. No creams with hormones for me. Would prefer something natural

[John250]

DHT based anabolics have never done anything for my rats libido. The first deca cycle my rat was insanely always in the mood.

I don't think dht is the fixer of libido. Just one piece of a large tapestry of neurotransmitters.

Deca increases prolactin as does Tren. This negatively impacts the libido for a lot of guys but I have noticed a small percentage actually get an increase libido from the prolactin increase.
I think the real cure for libido is not so much testosterone as it is neurosteroids like Progesterone, pregnenolone and DHEA. One imbalance with one of them can throw them all off and negatively impact libido.

[Rocket]

Deca increases prolactin as does Tren. This negatively impacts the libido for a lot of guys but I have noticed a small percentage actually get an increase libido from the prolactin increase.
I think the real cure for libido is not so much testosterone as it is neurosteroids like Progesterone, pregnenolone and DHEA. One imbalance with one of them can throw them all off and negatively impact libido.

 

I don't have issues with libido. I *want* sex. But damn, that first deca cycle was insane... like being 15 years old. Luckily I am married otherwise that would have been rough, I've used everything you're mentioning except progesterone and never got a libido boost. DHT anabolics = nothing. Dopamine enhancers = nothing. 

 

Libido and those with ED.... I think science only knows pieces of the puzzle but the whole picture is incomplete. 

 

A few years ago when I was more into anabolics I used 1g of T EW. No boost in libido. Just normal mood.

[John250]

I don't have issues with libido. I *want* sex. But damn, that first deca cycle was insane... like being 15 years old. Luckily I am married otherwise that would have been rough, I've used everything you're mentioning except progesterone and never got a libido boost. DHT anabolics = nothing. Dopamine enhancers = nothing.

Libido and those with ED.... I think science only knows pieces of the puzzle but the whole picture is incomplete.

A few years ago when I was more into anabolics I used 1g of T EW. No boost in libido. Just normal mood.

It’s also a very tuned balance between testosterone and estrogen. At 1 g per week it’s hard to get the right estrogen ratios as to high is not good neither is too low and you can’t always go off the range because Test levels are way off the range.

A huge part of ED is also mental. I say if you can masturbate and get an erection but not with a girl it’s mental but if you can’t do it while masturbating and it could be hormones or a blood flow issue.

Edited by John250, 29 July 2018 - 09:15 PM.