• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

pondering using valproate to learn korean

study sounds

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 ironfistx

  • Guest
  • 1,172 posts
  • 64
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 19 October 2016 - 07:08 PM


Ok bare with me.  I have been studying Korean for years and not really making any progress, and this is because the sounds in Korean are unlike English.  For example, Korean has 3 Gs, or Ks, but none of them is equivalent to an English g or k.  And I cannot hear the difference between them.  This is a normal problem for people who study Korean.  This causes whatever I say to be misunderstood by Koreans.  One idea is that when your brain is developing, it only memorizes sounds that it is exposed to.  So in the future if you are exposed to sounds that do not make up your own language, you may not be able to hear them.  The example with K was just to illustrate: many consonants have different forms that all sound the same, however some only have two forms although I still cannot tell the difference between them.

 

I read a study that said valproate can change brain structure and allow people to develop perfect pitch.  I was thinking this might be applicable to hearing the difference between sounds that are close that are new.

 

http://journal.front...2013.00102/full


Edited by ironfistx, 19 October 2016 - 07:11 PM.


#2 OneScrewLoose

  • Guest
  • 2,378 posts
  • 51
  • Location:California
  • NO

Posted 19 October 2016 - 07:50 PM

First of all, the journal that study was published in has no impact factor, not even a bad one, which is a terrible sign. Impact factor is a reputation system measuring the quality of a journal. It basically keeps track of how many times a journal is cited by other journals. So this journal isn't being cited by other journals. Not good.

 

I couldn't find any study on pubmed that duplicates this one. That's the fundamental key to science, can the findings be reproduced? It's been 3 years since this came out, and nada.

Valproate is a serious drug with serious potential side effects, amongst them emotional numbness, ESPECIALLY if you are not bipolar. And given what I said about, it's unlikely to work. This doesn't sound very appealing.

So what have you tried, in terms of study strategies, do get over this hump? Have you tried any nootropics?


  • Agree x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 aconita

  • Guest
  • 1,389 posts
  • 290
  • Location:Italy
  • NO

Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:35 PM

I hope you are actually living in Korea...otherwise forget it.



#4 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,949 posts
  • 1,625
  • Location:New York

Posted 20 October 2016 - 03:24 AM

Some people are better at distinguishing sounds of speech than others.  Low dose LSD or other psychedelics have been said to help with this, though I obviously cannot recommend it. Perhaps a milder sort of drug with similar characteristics, such as marijuana, where legal, would help. 

 

Sir Richard Burton (the explorer, not the actor) was an accomplished linguist who recommended taking a native speaker as a lover as the best way to learn a language.  Sometimes easier said than done.  Fining a linguistics text that describes the position of the tongue, the direction it moves, how the breath is released, etc. to make a sound, may enable you to reproduce it.

 

Have you tried the Pimsleur method?  Their approach uses no written material, at least at first:  Everything is auditory.    You  hear it and try to say it. Worked for me with Chinese. 



#5 Adamzski

  • Guest
  • 674 posts
  • 58
  • Location:South Korea

Posted 20 October 2016 - 01:13 PM

Yes move to Korea if you are not already there.

I have been in Korea 4yrs now and my Korean language ability is still at a very basic level.. Not that I have put any effort whatsoever into learning the Language. I learned Java inside out, mastered Android dev and mastered JS while here so thought that any serious study of Korean would be not so beneficial while taking me off the ball with my biz.
BUT my pronounciation is extremly good I can tell taxi drivers any location at all and they understand first go. Learnt to read Hangul in 2 days so that shouldnt be the issue with you so it seems it is the pronounciation, grab a Korean lover, move to your closest Korea town or here.

#6 ironfistx

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,172 posts
  • 64
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 20 October 2016 - 06:31 PM

If you check the study here it says Valproate was beneficial for this and is cited by 45 other studies:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3848041/

 

A distinct article

 

http://www.theverge....eriods-in-brain

 

One post on the page how-to-learn-any-language.com explains exactly how I feel about Korean, regardless you can read it here if you are interested http://how-to-learn-...128&PN=22&TPN=1 however you should be aware that forum is off and you cannot post any new topics.

 

 

 

 

First of all, the journal that study was published in has no impact factor, not even a bad one, which is a terrible sign. Impact factor is a reputation system measuring the quality of a journal. It basically keeps track of how many times a journal is cited by other journals. So this journal isn't being cited by other journals. Not good.

 

I couldn't find any study on pubmed that duplicates this one. That's the fundamental key to science, can the findings be reproduced? It's been 3 years since this came out, and nada.

Valproate is a serious drug with serious potential side effects, amongst them emotional numbness, ESPECIALLY if you are not bipolar. And given what I said about, it's unlikely to work. This doesn't sound very appealing.

So what have you tried, in terms of study strategies, do get over this hump? Have you tried any nootropics?

 

Yeah I figured there were things that are not cool that Valproate might do.  I have never used any smart drugs.

 

Some people are better at distinguishing sounds of speech than others.  Low dose LSD or other psychedelics have been said to help with this, though I obviously cannot recommend it. Perhaps a milder sort of drug with similar characteristics, such as marijuana, where legal, would help. 

 

Sir Richard Burton (the explorer, not the actor) was an accomplished linguist who recommended taking a native speaker as a lover as the best way to learn a language.  Sometimes easier said than done.  Fining a linguistics text that describes the position of the tongue, the direction it moves, how the breath is released, etc. to make a sound, may enable you to reproduce it.

 

Have you tried the Pimsleur method?  Their approach uses no written material, at least at first:  Everything is auditory.    You  hear it and try to say it. Worked for me with Chinese. 

Definitely.  Pimsleur is awesome.  Actually, I cannot split the sounds on there, either.  One case of this is with the expression "mot haeyo" as can't do.  Much of the time the first word sounds like moat, occasionally it's boot, maybe boat, or moot.  But it's all the same word.



#7 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,949 posts
  • 1,625
  • Location:New York

Posted 21 October 2016 - 01:03 AM

...

 

Some people are better at distinguishing sounds of speech than others.  Low dose LSD or other psychedelics have been said to help with this, though I obviously cannot recommend it. Perhaps a milder sort of drug with similar characteristics, such as marijuana, where legal, would help. 

 

Sir Richard Burton (the explorer, not the actor) was an accomplished linguist who recommended taking a native speaker as a lover as the best way to learn a language.  Sometimes easier said than done.  Fining a linguistics text that describes the position of the tongue, the direction it moves, how the breath is released, etc. to make a sound, may enable you to reproduce it.

 

Have you tried the Pimsleur method?  Their approach uses no written material, at least at first:  Everything is auditory.    You  hear it and try to say it. Worked for me with Chinese. 

Definitely.  Pimsleur is awesome.  Actually, I cannot split the sounds on there, either.  One case of this is with the expression "mot haeyo" as can't do.  Much of the time the first word sounds like moat, occasionally it's boot, maybe boat, or moot.  But it's all the same word.

 

I don't know from Korean, but there is a problem with their Chinese series: they use Native Speakers, but sometimes there are regional dialects, and even sometimes the same speaker says the same word slightly differently.  Perhaps depending on the sounds that precede or follow.

 

My son learned Quebecois French by working in a Montreal restaurant kitchen where that was all they spoke, and trading math tutoring for lessons with a Francophone.

Now he is fluent, but my Parisian acquaintance grimaces at some of his diction.  "It is French, but oh! Such French!!"  If French sounds like birds singing, Quebecois French sounds like ducks quacking.



#8 joelcairo

  • Guest
  • 586 posts
  • 156
  • Location:Calgary, Alberta, Canada
  • NO

Posted 21 October 2016 - 05:54 AM

I take valproate. The main side effects I am aware of are weight gain and general fatigue. I haven't noticed being affected by either of these. I have heard of the perfect pitch study, and I think it's also supposed to improve memory. However I have never really noticed any nootropic effects either. I think the others here are putting you on the right path by focusing on the best technique for learning a language.

 



#9 ironfistx

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,172 posts
  • 64
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 21 October 2016 - 08:03 PM

I wasn't really legitimately considering Valproate, but I was looking for more information about what it does to the brain. Being able to get the brain to the way it was during childhood language learning would be quite excellent, actually.

I would like to be able to tell the difference between the consonants that sound the same.

So to give an example, I can watch a subtitled show in another language and get a word or two I didn't know. I can watch a subtitled show in Korean many times and not get anything. I can listen to songs and not be able to sing them back.

Edited by ironfistx, 21 October 2016 - 08:09 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#10 ironfistx

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,172 posts
  • 64
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 21 October 2016 - 08:11 PM

If I do get a new word, it's not pronounced the way it sounded like it was pronounced to me.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: study, sounds

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users