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5ht2 antagonist

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7 replies to this topic

#1 markosheehan

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:52 PM


hi i am wondering if you know what are the safest psychedelics for your heart in general. i love taking shrooms but i have seen that they stimulate 5ht2 a/b/c receptors which suggest they could be bad so i have been looking for a antagonist to take like sarpogrelate to take however very little is known about this and i could be putting myself at more risk by taking it so do you have any suggestions, there is not a lot of info about antagonists so i dont know what to do. i really do love shrooms but i have high BP as it is and dont want to put my self at risk so should i 1. continue to take take shrooms and hope it does not do to much damage 2. take a antagonist which not is much is known about and could even do more damage in some other way or 3. look for a different psychedelic 4 stop all together which would be sad as i find psychedelics introspective and help me learn alot. any help is greatly appreciated



#2 gamesguru

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:52 PM

Psychedelics are usually 5ht2 agonists.  the only reported case of cardiac failure was in a patient who had received a heart transplant some years prior, after ingesting wild cubensis she gathered from the woods.  and the only lsd fatality involved a terrific blunder somewhere in the supply chain, as all evidence suggests this man had purchased the powder for injection, believing it was amphetamine.  So the estimated risk of death during a trip is minimal.

 

To reduce the risk of microstroke or stress on microcapilaries, try a healthier diet, ginkgo, ginger and chocolate.  These don't have to be taken before the trip per se (trust me there is no desire to take ginkgo during a trip).  Take them in the months leading up (and maybe a bit in the morning), it takes about that long for your arteries to become more permeable and elastic, and for the quality of the blood to fully change in thickness and oxidative status.  Be healthy and you have less health anxiety.  If you're well-oiled, even a mega dose of lsd will do no (physical) harm.


Edited by gamesguru, 04 December 2016 - 09:54 PM.


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#3 markosheehan

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:02 AM

Yes there has been very few deaths with these substances but that does not mean harm free. 5ht2 agonist have been linked to cardiac fibrosis through induced platelet aggression etc however the risk is still very low due to half life's, frequency of taking and other factors however I'm trying to be ultra safe cause of my heart so I was thinking of taking a antagonist would this work? Or should I switch to other psychs. Like salvia which I think does not affect 5ht2 that much

#4 gamesguru

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 08:42 PM

The cardiac fibroses is generally with certain compounds (hydergine, 5-HTP) that induce a very specific cellular cascade on the cardiac level.  It is not even clear whether co-administering an antagonist would halt the process.  Highly psychoactive ergolines are less likely to have a cardiac-specific effect, especially considering they're active at the microgram level.  And as you mention, the frequency of use is also exceedingly low.  Weighing all this against the unknown risks of salvia, it does not seem to be a case of trading for the lesser of two evil.



#5 markosheehan

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 09:00 PM

so there is nothing i can do when taking them to be safer except then not doing them that often   and how does the fact that it is active in micrograms affect affinty values and does the fact that shrooms is active in a higher mass mean they are more dangerous i dont think so.


Edited by markosheehan, 06 December 2016 - 09:02 PM.


#6 gamesguru

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 10:34 PM

Well generally hydergine fibrosis occurs above 5mg daily for years.  Compare that with 100mcg a few times a year.  The fact that it is so potent on the brain make it less likely to be so on the heart.  You could see fibrosis from 5mg of lsd for years, but my god, who could handle that?


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#7 Dichotohmy

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 05:17 AM

The problem with 5ht2x antagonists is that selectivity is a major issue.

From what I've seen, the -serins seem to be the most selective towards 5ht2 antagonism (but also other serotonin and sometimes alpha-adrenergic receptors). Some of these, like ritanserin are pretty much unobtainable. However, ketanserin is pretty easily gotten (I've seen it at a few nootropic sellers) and is the subject of a good amount of scientific research.

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#8 markosheehan

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 07:59 AM

Do you know how safe ketanserin is, does it cross the blood brain barrier which would be safer that or sarpogrelate. And do do know if shrooms or less would pose more of threat to causeing fibrosis





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