7 replies to this topic

[Simplicity]

Hi everyone, i just iniciate my calorie restriction and fasting a few months ago ,It's hard for me to do this because I'm an athlete , the problem always were the carbohydrates,  in "longecity"  always spoken of a diet of the Type ketogenic, with very few carbohydrates, I have been trying to play with them for my Condition, but after searching the internet I found a video, Which certainly made me rethink about lowering the carbohydrates

 

 

please,enjoy: 

 

Edited by Simplicity, 24 December 2016 - 09:19 PM.

[pamojja]

"10 of 26 adopted a high-protein diet.."

 
Not exactly what most understand as a low-carb diet - which for most would mean moderate protein and high fat!
 
Also higher mortality could be too from anything else. In my case if it ever would hold true, mostly because I adopted a low-carb diet out of simple necessity to reverting pre-diabetes and avoiding it going full blown. After the diagnosis of a PAD (peripheral arterial disease, ie. reduces blood flow to the extremities) - a 80% blockage at the abdominal aorta bifurcation - where all MDs predicted merciless deterioration.

 

Dr. Gregor of nutritionsfact.org is terrible biased towards vegan diets, and also mentions above that a vegetarian diet would revert the decreased blood flow. The problem with this and me is only: I've been vegetarian from age 10, a total of about 30 years and exactly by that developed such a severe PAD!

 

However, going low-carb (along with eliminating industrialized processed food), an orthmolecular medicine regime and some animal food, I was able to overcome the worst symptom of PAD, intermittent claudication (a pain-free walking distance of only 3-400 meters).

 

Again, one has to be very careful reading the actual studies Dr. Gregor presents so convincingly in short infobytes, to see where and how he used studies for his own agenda, not really supported by the actual studies.

Edited by pamojja, 25 December 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[Simplicity]

 

"10 of 26 adopted a high-protein diet.."

 
Not exactly what most understand as a low-carb diet - which for most would mean moderate protein and high fat!
 
Also higher mortality could be too from anything else. In my case if it ever would hold true, mostly because I adopted a low-carb diet out of simple necessity to reverting pre-diabetes and avoiding it going full blown. After the diagnosis of a PAD (peripheral arterial disease, ie. reduces blood flow to the extremities) - a 80% blockage at the abdominal aorta bifurcation - where all MDs predicted merciless deterioration.

 

Dr. Gregor of nutritionsfact.org is terrible biased towards vegan diets, and also mentions above that a vegetarian diet would revert the decreased blood flow. The problem with this and me is only: I've been vegetarian from age 10, a total of about 30 years and exactly by that developed such a severe PAD!

 

However, going low-carb (along with eliminating industrialized processed food), an orthmolecular medicine regime and some animal food, I was able to overcome the worst symptom of PAD, intermittent claudication (a pain-free walking distance of only 3-400 meters).

 

Again, one has to be very careful reading the actual studies Dr. Gregor presents so convincingly in short infobytes, to see where and how he used studies for his own agenda, not really supported by the actual studies.

 

agree with you about Dr. Greger he Use studies in his favor like the religious,  the studies talk about high-protein diets as you say, something that I always noticed was QPCR , which is largely related to inflammation and Something that anyone can observe in the analyzes, I have always had a medium / high protein diet, so without any study I dare to assure that animal protein is related to inflammation (I am not a vegetarian and seems to be an attitude far from reality) when my proteins are lowered 15% of my diet, the PCR low enough so I think the proteins are as bad as the carbohydrates (I think these should be used almost as a supplement i meant to benefit from the energy they give us that in certain situations would be very Interesting and could be de-stressing but we need them, for example i use a CH dosage before sleep Because I can sleep more deeply, and this is because it stimulates certain hormones Insulin, adrenaline and HGH) we should think, why animal protein is related to inflammation? Well, they eat really badly and over all those who are locked in cubicles and are injected hormones to give more milk, meat etc ... that somehow we are eating it, there was a tribe that when they killed their enemies ate their brains (An extreme but useful example to explain my thinking) many of them developed problems in the nervous system called "kuru", a pathogen that was in the brain, we had the "Bovine spongiform encephalopathy" more than a decade ago, from my point of view the animal protein is not safe (I'm not a vegetarian, I admit that I'm still eating animal protein) eating animals maybe we are incorporating some kind of bad microorganism into our bodies.

 

 

And this study about CH and aging https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27942749 Published 2 days ago... so i'm disagree with high-CH ( Athletes should consume more because of oxidative stress) and High- Protein Both macronutrients should be used as supplements.

Edited by Simplicity, 28 December 2016 - 11:52 PM.

[pamojja]

True, I would never touch any other than free range, organically raised eggs, meat or wild caught fish. And that only as supplement, while the bulk consists of plants.

 

 

PS: Find it amusing that lifestyle changes and a supplement regime which reversed a condition and its resulting 60% disability (certified by government agency) was tagged as 'ill imformed', even 'dangerous'. Some seem to have gotten completely out of touch with reality.

Edited by pamojja, 28 December 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[ta5]

One problem with low-carb diets, if they are high-meat diets, is the way meats are commonly cooked. When meat is cooked at high temperatures it creates AGEs, hydrocarbons, and oxidizes the fats. Frying, deep fat frying, grilling, broiling, will all produce these toxins. Boiling meat in vinegar or citrus juice for a minimum of time will minimize these toxins, but not eliminate them.

 

Processed meats have their problems, including increased rates of cancer. Red meats contribute to iron overload, and maybe other problems. As Pamojja mentions, you've got all the issues with commercial farming of unhealthy animals, including fish. All these will be bad for blood vessels.

[Richard McGee]

Looking at macros is fine, but you can't stop there. Carbohydrates run the gamut from Saltine crackers to radishes and they are far from equal in a nutritional sense. The bulk of your carb intake should be in the raw leafy vegetables high in fiber, and fruits (non-processed carbs low on the glycemic index). High fiber legumes are okay, milled grains not so okay. Fermentable fiber is critical in maintaining a healthy microbiome. Specialty bread made from sprouted grains are available in many stores, and a good substitute for high-glycemic index bread. 

 

I'm not a vegan, but it can be made to work providing you supplement B12 and Omega3. Diet is best considered from a pragmatic empirical standpoint, rather than from a strictly ethical one...but that's just me.

 

It should be noted that all humans are unique, and not everyone will profit from a vegan diet, even a well-structured one. But for most people consuming a normal Western diet, a shift towards complex carbohydrates and away from saturated fats will benefit them enormously

[pamojja]

High fiber legumes are okay, milled grains not so okay...
 
It should be noted that all humans are unique, and not everyone will profit from a vegan diet, ... a shift towards complex carbohydrates and away from saturated fats will benefit them enormously.

 
Point in case: Even legumes raise my blood sugar sky high. To make up for the bulk of calories gone from carbohydrates I had to increase fats, preferably the less oxidizeable ones, like mono and saturated fats.
 
And benefited enormously. Humans are indeed unique,

[mikeinnaples]

The video here was a bit worthless in context of a Ketogenic diet as is not a high protein diet. The author, in my opinion, also seemed to completely neglect the fact that low carb does not equate to high protein with the studies he cited. In fact, it is quite impossible to be in ketosis and have a high protein diet at the same time because the excess protein will keep you from ever getting into ketosis. A ketogenic diet is not so much a 'diet' as it is eating in such a way to force your body to make a metabolic shift from glycolysis to ketosis. Unlike a 'fad diet', you control over the food you eat, how it is prepared, and the micros. You can be in ketosis and have a horrible diet or you can be in ketosis and eating extremely healthy.

 

As someone that works out in the gym regularly, I have found that 75-80% Fat, 20% protein, and <5% net carbs works best for me on average to keep enough protein for my exercise and other activities while easily keeping me in ketosis. My proteins primarily come from fish, chicken, and eggs cooked just enough to be done in olive or coconut oil. In addition to fat sources I already mentioned (oils/eggs), the rest of my fat comes from things like avocado, nuts, cheese, and seeds. Using a tool like CRON-O-meter, you can put together foods you like to hit both your macros and micros, and then fill any holes in as needed. For example, my typical diet in keto is low on potassium, iodine, and salt... so I add some salt and supplement potassium to compensate.