• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Atomoxetine sedation - is it all really just blood-pressure?

atomoxetine alpha-2-receptors blood-pressure sedation

  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Mind_Paralysis

  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:37 PM


Yeah, I've been looking into what the h*ll causes this, and this is the only plausible explanation I can find:

 

Norepinephrine must be SELECTIVE towards the Alpha-2-receptors - hence, an increase in NE-tone hits the Alpha-2's FIRST - meaning that very quickly, any NRI-agent will actually COUNTERACT itself, since Alpha-2-receptors are auto-receptors - increasing acitivity on them, signals the brain that there's too much NE, hence the brain over-reacts and lowers NE-output DRAMATICALLY.

 

Hence why I'm currently feeling so lethargic, and as if every single symptom of burnout and SCT is amplified HUNDREDFOLD while taking ATX.

 

But is this all caused by low blood-pressure, as I believe this is a result of Alpha-2-agonism? I've already got a naturally very, VERY low blood-pressure - I once fainted as a teenager, because my blood-pressure was so low.

 

If this is true, that sedation from ATX is caused by low blood-pressure, then how do I raise it? And SHOULD I raise it? I've actually tried Clonidine for my sleeping-issues, and now that I recall... the feeling was actually similar!

 

Caffeine is the only blood-pressure increasing agent currently legally available in my area - should I start micro-dosing that? On the other hand, it will merely give me a small spike, and then that's that - back even lower into sedation!

 

Modafinil, I am convinced, could deal with this problem in NO-TIME! However, it's not legal in my jurisdiction, so that'll be a loong, looong time in the coming...

 

 

What do you think lads and lass's? Is ATX sedation solved by merely increasing blood-pressure? But what about the lowered NE-tone? Wouldn't I still be left with worsened attention then? Blood-pressure can, as you all know, go up in different way - not necessarily in a way that increases NE-tone in the SPL.

 

I'm a bit stumped by this... especially by the fact that I feel both sedated and stimulated at the same time! I've felt unable to watch any video or play any game all day - could hardly even go grocery-shopping, and I find myself unable to feed myself, since cooking is out of the question - HOWEVER...!

 

I just realized that my typing is at DOUBLE the usual speed! Verbal memory seems to be enhanced as well, the words flow like WATER! 0_o

 

How is this possible if my overall NE-tone is so low?? God-damnit! I just don't understand ATX... the pharmacokinetics are like nothing I have ever seen or felt...

 

Any advice heartily received.



#2 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:20 PM

Well, I know when I'm beaten - starting tomorrow I'm lowering my dosage down to 35 mg again - currently sitting at 50 mg, and it's obviously simply too much.

 

I suppose I fell into the trap thinking the titration-schedule necessary for Atomoxetine was simply BULLSHIT, now didn't I?

I figured, it was a hold-over from ATX days as a failed antidepressant - but that is obviously not the case. I also erroneously figured, since I have had tremendous results at some dosages - that I could just lawn-move on - or, finally, that the titration is necessary for the KAPPA-RECEPTOR to down-regulate, since ATX metabolite is a powerful kappa-agonist, and since I DON'T produce the metabolite, it wouldn't be necessary.

 

All excuses for allowing me to get on with my life faster than what's really possible...

Very well, tomorrow, and for the next two weeks, I'll be on 35 mg. Hopefully that takes care of the problem.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#3 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 25 January 2017 - 03:58 PM

Right, I've been chugging along, and I've actually worked myself up to using 60 mg of ATX for the last couple of days.

However, today I got tired of the fatigue and turned up the volume to 80 mg!! 0_o I also added 20 mg Lisdexamphetamine, aka VYVANSE, because I got tired of waiting around for the effects to reveal themselves.

 

Well, SUCCESS! = ) With Vyvanse added I'm actually far more active, the fatigue and somnolence is mostly gone, and I've done some chores today:

 

Washed myself.

Shaved myself.

Cut my nails.

Sorted my trash.

Played some video-games.

Posted more in-depth posts here on Longecity.

 

 

The Vyvanse obviously counteracts some of the side-effects and I'm now back in the game!

However... I do seem a bit more... IRRITABLE! I'm not quite as emotionally stable as I was on ATX alone, or at least on 60 mg - I was noticeably pissed off when I started losing in the online game, more so than usual.

There's also the fact that I'm not sure if I am actually allowed to USE my previously prescribed Vyvanse yet, since I haven't been drug-tested and the health-care services may not accept the evidence of a previous prescription which I presented at my recent evaluation.

I've honestly had such a productive day that I may not actually care any more - having to hold back on treatment, when this is PRESCRIBED MEDICATION is simply unreasonable...! Especially with my burnout-fatigue souring every single day I have. I honestly can't take being this tired any more.

 

I'll try 80 mg again tomorrow, instead of starting out with 60 mg like today, and then I'll let the effects sink in for about 1-2 hours, and if I don't notice increased motivation and retentive attention then I'll add Vyvanse again.



#4 jack black

  • Guest
  • 1,294 posts
  • 28
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 25 January 2017 - 04:58 PM

Aren't you concerned about tolerance eventually setting in? I have no personal experience with those medications though.


  • Ill informed x 2
  • Good Point x 1

#5 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:51 PM

Aren't you concerned about tolerance eventually setting in? I have no personal experience with those medications though.

 

Certainly, I have been, a few times during this - especially in recent days, when I'm starting to go pretty high in dosage.

 

There is, however, the question of efficacy - how long should one suffer through a dosage, only to see no effect? Tolerance isn't officially reported to occur to any greater effect, at least when you keep to the prescribed dose-range.

 

Some do report tolerance though.

 

I may eventually take a break from the medication, when I get the real prescription, just for a few days, so I can test out the brand-name formulation and see if the effects are different.

 

I seem to be slightly too stimulated still though...! Not feeling very tired, even though I've taken my usual regimen of Sleep-stack. If I'm going to keep adding in Vyvanse, I might need to revise it - currently just chugged down some vitamin-C, but it doesn't seem to be flushing the amphetamine very quick - I am noticing some somnolence coming on though, as I'm typing this.

 

 

Btw, I'm having trouble seeing that the somnolence and fatigue caused by ATX is related to blood-pressure, because previously, while taking only Vyvanse, blood-pressure measurements of my person did not show any increase in pressure outside of the low-normal range. Yet Vyvanse cleared up the brain-fog, fatigue and somnolence from ATX in one fell swoop!

 

There must be something more to this...

 

What do you think? Is Norepinephrine in itself a SELECTIVE ALPHA-2-AGONIST? That would mean that NE is very often working against itself, tempering its own effects.


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 25 January 2017 - 09:55 PM.


#6 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 26 January 2017 - 02:52 PM

Today the drug is once more utterly kicking my ass, even with 15 mg of Vyvanse I still feel dizzy, fatigued and sleepy.

 

I'll henceforth be lowering my dose back down to 60 mg again, tomorrow.



#7 jack black

  • Guest
  • 1,294 posts
  • 28
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:56 PM

On the drugs.com this has very mixed reviews. You either love or hate it (or both like you do).
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Agree x 1

#8 Lia-chan

  • Guest
  • 53 posts
  • 4
  • Location:St. Petersburg
  • NO

Posted 28 January 2017 - 06:16 AM

On the drugs.com this has very mixed reviews. You either love or hate it (or both like you do).

I think that it's like with memantine, it takes a little time to get used to it and then you'll start to feel a-ok, at least for me.



#9 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 28 January 2017 - 07:47 PM


 

On the drugs.com this has very mixed reviews. You either love or hate it (or both like you do).

I think that it's like with memantine, it takes a little time to get used to it and then you'll start to feel a-ok, at least for me.

 

 

I would say you both have valid points here - both drugs really are love it or hate it - but that's because both drugs are so specific - for very specific patients with specific problems. Sadly, not that many of the patients taking both are the OPTIMAL subjects for the drugs - and of course, the drop-off is super-big on both - people want magic bullets, which I understand, I've been chasing it myself for a long time.

 

I won't give up on ATX though! = ) I've currently decreased dosage again, and quit Mirtazapine - the result has been quite good! Today was a very productive day, I was not as tired as usual - I went for a long drive with a friend to IKEA! Tons of carrying, going through lists, and doing various tasks.

 

Went quite well! So with a little bit of luck, I'm entering another good period with ATX - perhaps stability is just around the corner! I'll keep at it, and report back the results.

 

I'm a bit worried that I'm out of Gabapentin though... yesterday was my last pill, which meant that since I didn't take any Mirtazapine either, I had a pretty good nights sleep! Might have made all the difference today. But tonight I don't have anything... so, we'll see.

 

 

Really gotta' get me some more gaba-p...! And Modafinil. Good stuff.



#10 jack black

  • Guest
  • 1,294 posts
  • 28
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 28 January 2017 - 11:12 PM

I looked up Mirtazapine and sounds terrible. Anti-alpha2, sounds like pro-ADHS, and anti-H1, pro-hypnotic. Why did you take it?
  • Good Point x 1

#11 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 29 January 2017 - 08:50 AM

I looked up Mirtazapine and sounds terrible. Anti-alpha2, sounds like pro-ADHS, and anti-H1, pro-hypnotic. Why did you take it?

 

Originally it was prescribed in combo with Duloxetine, in order to achieve a more powerful antidepressant effect - to bring me out of burnout.

 

However, it's been proven that standard antidepressants can't touch burnout, and with the info I dug up on burnout being connected to cortisol-exposure and hippocampal damage, then I soon switched to the combo of NSI-189 and Tianeptine.

 

However, I kept using Mirtazapine now and then for some time - in general to improve my sleep-schedule, to fall asleep on time - to prevent drifting of my circadian rhytm. (another issue I have)

 

It's pretty good in that regard, but I didn't realize until later that it was messing with my SWS - I just attributed it to my burnout.

 

 

I've had bad reactions to it in the past, so I wasn't all too fond of keeping it, I had actually more or less quit using it when the Dr's made their move:

 

The removal of my Atomoxetine and placing me in evaluation of BIPOLAR NOS.

 

This meant that I would be going up for a drug-screen, so I couldn't use ANY narcotic substances to enhance my sleep - this then left me in the clutches of Mirtazapine...

 

 

Now though, I'm done with the histamine-antagonists, and I'm never touching them ever again.



#12 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 05 February 2017 - 08:26 PM

Right, so I've been trying out Atomoxetine for more than a month now - to be precise, I've been using it since the 4th of January.

 

That makes for a total of 32 days of treatment.

 

I have yet to get any continous benefit - the drugs works at one dose, then the next day it makes everything worse. When it actually has a therapeutic effect, it helps more than anything I've ever used. But most of the time it's a complete pain in the @$$.

 

I've managed to reach a whoppin' 80 mg worth of dosing, and the sedation at this level is intense! It actually puts me to sleep! Like if I've chugged down a friggen' benzo!

 

Here's the question though - should I give up on dosing this, until I actually have some Modafinil to synergize and correct the effects? Or should I just go down to the last semi-tolerable dose? (50-60 mg)

 

I've got a Dr's appointment in three bloody weeks! A damn-near eternity for one living in perpetual zombie-hell, and I'm still not sure if I'll get Modafinil...

 

 

On the other hand, titrating ATX is by all accounts, a terribly slow process - if I quit now, I'll have to start all over again. On the other hand... my ONLY side-effect is sedation - nothing else, I notice absolutely nothing else from the drug side-effects wise - Modafinil should clear all of it up when I get a hold of it.

 

Should I just quit the drug for a while, and then try my chances at later date?

 

 

You know what... It's clear that this is what I need to do - ATX-break, here I come!



#13 Lia-chan

  • Guest
  • 53 posts
  • 4
  • Location:St. Petersburg
  • NO

Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:19 AM

I looked up Mirtazapine and sounds terrible. Anti-alpha2, sounds like pro-ADHS, and anti-H1, pro-hypnotic. Why did you take it?

Even taking in account, that it has some pro-hypnotic properties I still think it gives me a lot of benefits, for example it helped a lot with my OCD, that was treatment-resistant for years! Even NAC and memantine didn't helped with it. But now, I'm at least know what reaction I have for lithium -- after I've tried I've felt like someone has turned off the "light" inside my brain and after that I had a severe painful flashbacks about my one "accident" and that was really unbeareable so much, that I couldn't just handle myself, I've felt SOOO SEDATED, so to sort off "stimulate" myself out of this condition I've cut my wrists once again, just to calm down all the pain in my soul and all the feeling I've felt about that "accident" that happened to me almost a year ago. When I have that sort of flashbacks I feel like I don't care about anything anymore and I either try to commit suicide or just try to burn all the bridges that keeps me alive so I'll have either way to commit a suicide. Yeah, I really feel like something is dead inside of me after the "accident" and that's why I take mirtazapine, because every time I try to relax I have intense memories that accident, so I just want to feel asleep when I go to bed, but it seems, even that mirtazapine improved both of my memory and mood, I feel like shit every time I wake up and then because of my ADHD troubles I just keep procrastinate all the day long, before I have to do at least "some" work at my home. but yeah Strattera, helps me a lot to stay on the task and it's so far my 45th day of Strattera, but it did nothing for my depression.



#14 Finn

  • Guest
  • 135 posts
  • 33
  • Location:Finland
  • NO

Posted 06 February 2017 - 05:53 AM

 

 

I've managed to reach a whoppin' 80 mg worth of dosing, and the sedation at this level is intense! It actually puts me to sleep! Like if I've chugged down a friggen' benzo!

 

Here's the question though - should I give up on dosing this, until I actually have some Modafinil to synergize and correct the effects? Or should I just go down to the last semi-tolerable dose? (50-60 mg)

 

 

I think you said somewhere that you were poor CYP2D6 metabolizer?

 

 

http://www.rxlist.co...harmacology.htm

 

A fraction of the population (about 7% of Caucasians and 2% of African Americans) are poor metabolizers (PMs) of CYP2D6 metabolized drugs. These individuals have reduced activity in this pathway resulting in 10- fold higher AUCs, 5-fold higher peak plasma concentrations, and slower elimination (plasma half-life of about 24 hours) of atomoxetine compared with people with normal activity [extensive metabolizers (EMs)]. 

 

 

 CYP2D6 extensive metabolizer are approximately 77–92% of population, so atomoxetine dosing was probably set based on that. For them, on-the-label maximum is 100 mg, so you probably shouldn't go up to 80 mg, 50 mg should be more than enough. 



#15 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 06 February 2017 - 07:35 AM

 

 

 

I've managed to reach a whoppin' 80 mg worth of dosing, and the sedation at this level is intense! It actually puts me to sleep! Like if I've chugged down a friggen' benzo!

 

Here's the question though - should I give up on dosing this, until I actually have some Modafinil to synergize and correct the effects? Or should I just go down to the last semi-tolerable dose? (50-60 mg)

 

 

I think you said somewhere that you were poor CYP2D6 metabolizer?

 

 

http://www.rxlist.co...harmacology.htm

 

A fraction of the population (about 7% of Caucasians and 2% of African Americans) are poor metabolizers (PMs) of CYP2D6 metabolized drugs. These individuals have reduced activity in this pathway resulting in 10- fold higher AUCs, 5-fold higher peak plasma concentrations, and slower elimination (plasma half-life of about 24 hours) of atomoxetine compared with people with normal activity [extensive metabolizers (EMs)]. 

 

 

 CYP2D6 extensive metabolizer are approximately 77–92% of population, so atomoxetine dosing was probably set based on that. For them, on-the-label maximum is 100 mg, so you probably shouldn't go up to 80 mg, 50 mg should be more than enough. 

 

 

Yep, I AM a poor CYP2D6 metabolizer.

 

 

And I would have agreed about the dosing - except it seems as if there are plenty of references that apparently this doesn't always mean that a poor metabolizer needs to cut the dose.

 

My initial calculation was that about ~30 mg, give or take, would have been enough, however, this was not the case - 40 mg was the initial effective dose. That soon petered out though, and I hence went with another calculation:

 

Instead of 0,5 mg / kilo, I went with 25-33% lower dosage than the norm (since 80 mg is the usual target-dose, even if you don't actually weigh 80 kilos) - I then found some effectiveness at both 50 mg, and then subsequently at 60 mg.

 

However, it's like the effective dose keeps sliding... I've rarely, if ever, had more than ONE day worth of an effective dose - the next day I get sedation.

 

What I've usually done is to then back down in dosage, of course - however, even while acclimating for 50 mg at a cozy 35 mg, for say, 4-5 days, this doesn't mean that I actually get back the effects when I try 50 mg again!

 

Hence, there's something more than just increased blood-plasma levels going on here...

Reason why I was up to 80 mg's yesterday, is because I had been trying to acclimate to 60 mg, by using around 45 mg, but then when I went up again, to try and get efficacy once more (60 mg had worked once before) I was then hit with somnolence AGAIN, instead...

Increasing dosage to 80 mg then suddenly, for one whole day, gave the medication efficacy once more.

 

(the second day of 80 mg dosing, I had realized the pattern, so I figured because of my metabolism, I needed to lower the dosage - so I staggered the dosing - starting with first 60 mg, then evaluation for about 1,5 hours, then when there was no efficacy, I increased to 70 mg, wait 1,5 hours, no efficacy, then tried 80 mg - and WHAMMO! super-sedated - went to sleep about an hour after ingestion.)

 

 

So, as you see, it's like a rubber-band which stretches back, yet not quite, the dosing is very, very ephemeral - a moving, ghostly target.

 

 

Still, you're right - I shouldn't be playing around with such high dosages, so therefore I'm phasing it out by going down to 50 mg today, and then cutting the dosage down to 35 mg tomorrow.

 

I'll remain at 35 mg until I get Modafinil as an add-on. (or, I'll drop the dosage entirely soon, in order to let my potential NET's upregulate again, and then try 35 mg again once I have Modafinil)


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 06 February 2017 - 07:39 AM.


#16 Lia-chan

  • Guest
  • 53 posts
  • 4
  • Location:St. Petersburg
  • NO

Posted 07 February 2017 - 07:36 PM

 

 

Yep, I AM a poor CYP2D6 metabolizer.

 

 

And I would have agreed about the dosing - except it seems as if there are plenty of references that apparently this doesn't always mean that a poor metabolizer needs to cut the dose.

 

My initial calculation was that about ~30 mg, give or take, would have been enough, however, this was not the case - 40 mg was the initial effective dose. That soon petered out though, and I hence went with another calculation:

 

Instead of 0,5 mg / kilo, I went with 25-33% lower dosage than the norm (since 80 mg is the usual target-dose, even if you don't actually weigh 80 kilos) - I then found some effectiveness at both 50 mg, and then subsequently at 60 mg.

 

However, it's like the effective dose keeps sliding... I've rarely, if ever, had more than ONE day worth of an effective dose - the next day I get sedation.

 

What I've usually done is to then back down in dosage, of course - however, even while acclimating for 50 mg at a cozy 35 mg, for say, 4-5 days, this doesn't mean that I actually get back the effects when I try 50 mg again!

 

Hence, there's something more than just increased blood-plasma levels going on here...

Reason why I was up to 80 mg's yesterday, is because I had been trying to acclimate to 60 mg, by using around 45 mg, but then when I went up again, to try and get efficacy once more (60 mg had worked once before) I was then hit with somnolence AGAIN, instead...

Increasing dosage to 80 mg then suddenly, for one whole day, gave the medication efficacy once more.

 

(the second day of 80 mg dosing, I had realized the pattern, so I figured because of my metabolism, I needed to lower the dosage - so I staggered the dosing - starting with first 60 mg, then evaluation for about 1,5 hours, then when there was no efficacy, I increased to 70 mg, wait 1,5 hours, no efficacy, then tried 80 mg - and WHAMMO! super-sedated - went to sleep about an hour after ingestion.)

 

 

So, as you see, it's like a rubber-band which stretches back, yet not quite, the dosing is very, very ephemeral - a moving, ghostly target.

 

 

Still, you're right - I shouldn't be playing around with such high dosages, so therefore I'm phasing it out by going down to 50 mg today, and then cutting the dosage down to 35 mg tomorrow.

 

I'll remain at 35 mg until I get Modafinil as an add-on. (or, I'll drop the dosage entirely soon, in order to let my potential NET's upregulate again, and then try 35 mg again once I have Modafinil)

 

I think, that if you are able to hold on all the atomoxetine side-effects, you won't have to reduce your dosage, at least not that much, then if you are CYP2D6 poor metabolizer then ATX would simply need more time so it 'll be able to work, so if you 'll lower your dosage so much, then, I think it simply won't work on you in any future, so I'm asking, ARE YOU SURE, that YOU are CYP2D6 poor metabolizer? Because if you are, then classic stimulant medicine would simply give you an insomnia, because they would last MUCH-MUCH longer. And I know it, because of my own experience with  mixing CYP2D6 inhibitors and substrates. lol.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Advertisements help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.

#17 Mind_Paralysis

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:04 PM

 

 

 

Yep, I AM a poor CYP2D6 metabolizer.

 

 

And I would have agreed about the dosing - except it seems as if there are plenty of references that apparently this doesn't always mean that a poor metabolizer needs to cut the dose.

 

My initial calculation was that about ~30 mg, give or take, would have been enough, however, this was not the case - 40 mg was the initial effective dose. That soon petered out though, and I hence went with another calculation:

 

Instead of 0,5 mg / kilo, I went with 25-33% lower dosage than the norm (since 80 mg is the usual target-dose, even if you don't actually weigh 80 kilos) - I then found some effectiveness at both 50 mg, and then subsequently at 60 mg.

 

However, it's like the effective dose keeps sliding... I've rarely, if ever, had more than ONE day worth of an effective dose - the next day I get sedation.

 

What I've usually done is to then back down in dosage, of course - however, even while acclimating for 50 mg at a cozy 35 mg, for say, 4-5 days, this doesn't mean that I actually get back the effects when I try 50 mg again!

 

Hence, there's something more than just increased blood-plasma levels going on here...

Reason why I was up to 80 mg's yesterday, is because I had been trying to acclimate to 60 mg, by using around 45 mg, but then when I went up again, to try and get efficacy once more (60 mg had worked once before) I was then hit with somnolence AGAIN, instead...

Increasing dosage to 80 mg then suddenly, for one whole day, gave the medication efficacy once more.

 

(the second day of 80 mg dosing, I had realized the pattern, so I figured because of my metabolism, I needed to lower the dosage - so I staggered the dosing - starting with first 60 mg, then evaluation for about 1,5 hours, then when there was no efficacy, I increased to 70 mg, wait 1,5 hours, no efficacy, then tried 80 mg - and WHAMMO! super-sedated - went to sleep about an hour after ingestion.)

 

 

So, as you see, it's like a rubber-band which stretches back, yet not quite, the dosing is very, very ephemeral - a moving, ghostly target.

 

 

Still, you're right - I shouldn't be playing around with such high dosages, so therefore I'm phasing it out by going down to 50 mg today, and then cutting the dosage down to 35 mg tomorrow.

 

I'll remain at 35 mg until I get Modafinil as an add-on. (or, I'll drop the dosage entirely soon, in order to let my potential NET's upregulate again, and then try 35 mg again once I have Modafinil)

 

I think, that if you are able to hold on all the atomoxetine side-effects, you won't have to reduce your dosage, at least not that much, then if you are CYP2D6 poor metabolizer then ATX would simply need more time so it 'll be able to work, so if you 'll lower your dosage so much, then, I think it simply won't work on you in any future, so I'm asking, ARE YOU SURE, that YOU are CYP2D6 poor metabolizer? Because if you are, then classic stimulant medicine would simply give you an insomnia, because they would last MUCH-MUCH longer. And I know it, because of my own experience with  mixing CYP2D6 inhibitors and substrates. lol.

 

 

I am, yes - I took a genetic test which showed that I carry the genes which impair CYP2D6-metabolism. And yes, stimulants does give me insomnia - both Methylphenidate, Dexamphetamine and Bupropion have that effect on me.

I would actually say that Atomoxetine should start working FASTER when you're a slow metabolizer though, not slower - the metabolism breaks ATX down, into another compound which is also an NRI, but also a Kappa-agonist/NMDA-antagonist - it's that compound which causes the worst side-effects of ATX.

Being a poor metabolizer increases bio-availability from 60% to 90% - and increases the half-life from 8 hours to 21 hours.

With that in mind, the therapeutic effect should kick in faster, as Norepinephrinergic activity should be going up sky-high. In a way you're right that it would take more time though - because setting the right dose is obviously far, far more complicated.

 

I am considering switching to Reboxetine instead - not quite ready to give up on ATX yet, since the evidence is better, it having been trialled for SCT and ADHD, which Reboxetine hardly has.

 

Today marks the first day where I'm not doing any ATX - instead I'm shifting to another cycle of NSI-189. I figure I might as well, since ATX won't work until I get some Modafinil to take the sedation off.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: atomoxetine, alpha-2-receptors, blood-pressure, sedation

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users