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Before You Spend Money On Supplements

research senescence

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#1 Nate-2004

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 06:26 PM


Everyone is looking for something now instead of later. Supplements / drugs / augmentives are available now, but are hardly as effective as what could be available in the future with your help. While buying that next bottle of NR or Fish Oil may seem important to you now, you'll thank yourself in the future when something drastically better comes out that will make your next 10 bottles of whatever look like a complete waste.

 

Since senescent cells (SASP) are what may be at the root of NAD+ depletion with age, drugs that target senescent cells should be the primary goal. Before you buy more NR and other supplements, please put some money into researching this drug.

 

The crowdfund campaign for this research is $28,000 short with 3 days to go. Just 1300 more people donating $25 would be enough to help out. I am positive we have more than that number actively participating in the forums. Please donate and share this campaign on your FB and share with everyone you know. This is the most important $25 (or more) you'll spend.

 

Link to the campaign.

 

Link to the official thread.


Edited by Nate-2004, 17 January 2017 - 06:26 PM.


#2 mrkosh1

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 06:41 PM

I have no problem with the project. I think it is a good one. People should donate if they can afford to do so. However, if you are going to pitch this from the NAD+ angle, I'd suggest that an equally good project that may cost less would be to test Nicotinamide Riboside with a supplement that boosts NQO1 which recycles spent NAD+ back into active NAD. Two such supplements would be sulforaphane (pretty commonly available) and beta lapachone. Personally, I'd support testing with sulforaphane first because anyone can produce bio-active quantities by growing four ounces of sprouts, heating them to around 60-70C for a few minutes, blending them, letting them sit for a few minutes to allow the myrosinase enzyme to convert the glucoraphanin into sulforaphane, and drinking it. Beta lapachone is hard to come by.

 

A potential issue with nicotinamide riboside and NMN is that the maximum amount of NAD+ and the ratio of NAD+ to the spent form could be limited by NQO1 levels. If we want to push NAD+ to a higher level (in order to achieve maximum anti-aging potential), we need such testing.



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#3 sthira

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 07:32 PM

Since senescent cells (SASP) are what may be at the root of NAD+ depletion with age, drugs that target senescent cells should be the primary goal. Before you buy more NR and other supplements, please put some money into researching this drug.


Good thoughts, Nate. Donate a small portion of your purchases on supplements -- maybe skip a month of something in your stack -- to help support more effective future therapies.

...Personally, I'd support testing with sulforaphane first because anyone can produce bio-active quantities by growing four ounces of sprouts, heating them to around 60-70C for a few minutes, blending them, letting them sit for a few minutes to allow the myrosinase enzyme to convert the glucoraphanin into sulforaphane, and drinking it..."


This is a good idea, too: whole foods like broccoli sprouts are demonstrably healthier than isolated compounds like myrosinase, glucoraphanin, and sulforaphane. Don't forget the synergy of other compounds in sprouts that simply aren't known yet. And if you'll search pubmed, you'll see that there's no shortage of sulforaphane studies. In fact, a landslide of current sulforaphane studies is upon us -- more than two new studies per week!

So as much as I love sprouts and seeds (I grow my own) I'm not getting too hung up on the idea that broccoli seeds, sprouts, and crucifers in general are gonna repair aging damage that's already been done to my body. For this, we need studies like the one linked above -- we can all chip in $25 and help see it to fruition.
  • Agree x 1

#4 mrkosh1

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 07:43 PM

sthira,

 

I doubt that any one supplement will be able to fix the majority of aging damage. However, I'm hoping that with a combination of supplements we may be able to reverse a good portion except maybe for breaking apart glucosepane and other AGEs or perhaps repairing certain mitochondrial DNA deletions. My best hope for a supplement mix that could be very effective is nictinamide riboside combined with R-ALA and/or sulforaphane mixed in high polyphenol extra virgin olive oil. I'm guessing it would have high anti-aging potential.

 

The problem I see with many of the new sulforphane studies is very few of them are about anti-aging potential. Many of them are about cancer. Although this is an important topic, I'd like to see some studies on very elderly mice and how sulforphane may boost NRF2, increase NAD+ levels via NQO1, induce GDF11, inhibit myostatin, act as an HDAC inhibitor, and possibly increase lifespan.



#5 sthira

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 08:20 PM

I'm just trying to save some dashed hopes here. Historically what we've seen time after time in this arena are new hotshot supplements that sweep us away with a few suggestive rodent studies only to crash and burn later, when the replicative studies emerge (years later...) Pin not thy hopes on rodent studies. Eat a plant based whole food diet so you'll be consuming not only "sulforphane [that] may boost NRF2, increase NAD+ levels via NQO1, induce GDF11, inhibit myostatin, act as an HDAC inhibitor, and possibly increase lifespan" but you'll also be consuming beneficial food compounds that ain't no one even heard of, identified, or studied yet.

Before you spend too much on supplements for lifespan extension purposes, please search for Stephen Spindler's work regarding supplement realities that may be eye-opening and wallet-closing.

Edited by sthira, 17 January 2017 - 08:21 PM.

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#6 mrkosh1

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 10:40 PM

sthira,

 

I really do appreciate your concerns. I haven't been following anti-aging supplements as long as many people, but I've been reading and studying them since my teenage years. On more than one occasion over the past fifteen years I've gotten really excited about a supplement. But as time went on I realized it was way over hyped and didn't have nearly the beneficial effects everyone hoped it would. For example, consider alpha lipoic acid. It is still, in my opinion, one of the superior supplements on the market. But by itself it is not going to do a tremendous amount to reverse the aging process. At best, it could help some disease conditions, slow it down, and improve general health.

 

My goal though is not simply better health or a slight slowing of the aging process. I'm hoping for highly significant age reversal. Now, let me tell you my view on this. I doubt highly significant age reversal will come from diet or individual supplements. There are just too many people on tons of different diets and no has proven that their aging process has been reversed to any great extent. The same goes true for supplements. Now, there have been people with neurological conditions such as MS and Alzheimers improve their disease conditions dramatically -- but they still appear old and gray even if they are MUCH more functional and able to do for themselves.

 

So I have two primary hopes:

 

1) That combinations of synergistic supplements can provide *some* (even if not dramatic) actual age reversal. Sulforaphane seems hopeful, because unlike so many other supplements it is high absorbable in the body (most supplements are not) and it induces MAJOR effects (in vitro) of gene expression at concentrations of single digit umols. So I'm hoping that combining sulforaphane (the cheapest source is natural broccoli sprouts) with other possibly significant supplements (like nicotinamide riboside) might provide some significant anti-aging potential.

 

2) Because there are factors of the aging process that CANNOT (as far as we know) be reversed with supplementation of natural compounds (such as glucosepane accumulation or mitochondrial DNA deletions), I think to produce POWERFUL anti-aging effects that pharmaceutical drugs will have to be used with the supplements. As of yet, I don't know of any such pharmaceuticals. If we could find a glucosepane breaker that would be a great start. Also, CRISPR could allow for a breakthrough.

 

My hopes may seem extremely high, but I'm trying to show some level for optimism. Because truthfully, we are all seeking "escape velocity" so we can live long enough for science to reach the point that our aging process can be completely reversed.

 

 


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#7 sthira

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 11:19 PM

...So I'm hoping that combining sulforaphane (the cheapest source is natural broccoli sprouts) with other possibly significant supplements (like nicotinamide riboside) might provide some significant anti-aging potential.


Actually an even cheaper and more potent source for sulforaphane are the unsprouted whole seeds. Grind them as you might grind flaxseeds and add them to your potent stew. Also consider red radish seeds and mustard seeds, there are many paths to apparent NFK2 activation. Go easy, though, seeds are strong and they will let you know without subtlety when you've overreached.

Another approach is moringa, which is also a potent anti-inflammatory, amongst other beneficial qualities. There's a reason malnourished and starving people eat moringa leaves.

Also consider gut flora. Prebiotics like raw asparagus, Jerusalem artichokes, onions, raw chicory root, raw dandelion greens, raw garlic, raw leeks, raw jicama, raw wheat bran...

For probiotics consider steaming sweet potatoes, letting them cool, adding small amounts of potato starch.

The general idea is whole plant foods trump supplements. Until RepleniSENS (stem cell proliferation and healthy differentiation); OncoSENS (prevention of cancer; encouraging Cancer cell apoptosis); MitoSENS (encouraging healthy mitochondria functioning); ApoptoSENS (extending cell division and senescence); GlycoSENS (AGEs prevention. Ages is the accumulation of extra cellular junk... This causes tissue structure to weaken.  This is what causes wrinkles...); AmyloSENS (extracellular aggregate prevention and removal) and LysoSENS (intracellular aggregate prevention and removal by healthy lysosomal activity) until these therapies reach the clinic -- decades away without funding -- we'll keep waiting.

That was the reason for Nate's introduction of this thread: help fund the senescent cell research that's ongoing right now. It's just $25 -- cheaper than that Niagen bottle you're contemplating.

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#8 mrkosh1

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 12:40 AM

sthira,

 

I spend several hours of night searching through websites and pubmed without recording every interesting reference I find, so I can't give a source for this. But somewhere I read the name of a substance in broccoli seeds that is not present in the sprouts that could have some negative effect. They claimed this is a reason to consume the sprouts and not the seeds. I need to look this up again and post the reference.

 

In addition, I totally support folks supporting these different SENS projects. For those who can afford to do so, I think it would be great for them to donate $25 dollars or more.

 

BTW, I really enjoy all of your posts, and I appreciate your responses. You are always super reasonable and helpful.

 

 







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