3 replies to this topic

[critriksy]

Hi, 

 

I've been struggling for the past for years with predominantly apathy, lack of motivation, lack of concentration, decreased libido, and feelings of unreality. As I progressed into the my late teens something started to feel very "off". I didn't find any enjoyment from the things that I used to, I felt unreal and like my head was full of cotton wool. 

 

I visited the doctors and I was prescribed fluoxetine, an SSRI/antidepressant. It did nothing but make me lethargic and further decreased my libido (permanently I think). I think this is largely because I'm not actually depressed, I rarely have feelings of hopelessness or being down etc. 

 

With decreased motivation it actually took a long time for me to be bothered to do anything else. But I ended up being led down the route of nootropics. I've tried aniracetam, piracetam, oxiracetam, all to try and clear the "brain fog" and some actually worked. However there was no positive influence to my mood. 

 

I'm not sure whether i've grown accustomed to the derealisation over the years or whether it actually has gotten better, but I quickly realised that the apathy was my central concern. This is when I realised that it might actually be a deficiency in dopamine causing all of these symptoms. In fact I was reading a post on a website that directly linked dopamine deficiency to derealisation and I literally facepalmed. It'd been 4 years and the answer was that simple. I immediately ordered l-tyrosine to boost the levels of my dopamine. 

 

Now the first two days were fantastic. I began to felt real again and I had the motivation to actually do things. I felt emotion come back to me after all that time. Music sounded better, books were readable, I found enjoyment in video games. However, I had a blood test because I recently visited my doctor over the prior concerns. I didn't take the l-tyrosine that day or anything for that matter so that any deficiencies would show up (I know dopamine deficiencies aren't detectable in blood tests). I came out as severely low on vitamin D. I'm now prescribed a form of it that I take once weekly. I need to ask my GP if it's okay to take a multivitamin as well but I think this might ramp my magnesium up too high.

 

When I went back on the tyrosine it didn't have the same effect that it did. It still clears my derealisation a little but my mood is back to the usual nothingness. So I'm not sure whether I developed a tolerance, or perhaps it was placebo. I've also try l-phenylalanine with again limited success. I've looked into dopamine receptor upregulation and apparently inositol can help with that so I've just today included that into my regime. 

 

I've also had a seizure fairly recently with no obvious cause, I'd taken MDMA three days earlier so that seems unlikely. An MRI scan shows a small abnormality at the back of my brain, it could be a tumour or a cavernoma, the doctors aren't sure. It isn't growing either way so they aren't concerned but it could be tied into all of this. It's worth noting that the abnormality in my brain and the seizure could be unrelated. Many healthy people can have similar things throughout their lives without any affect. 

 

I'm currently taking. 

 

B-Vitamin Complex (As of a few days ago, I switched to this one, I do feel subtle improvements)

-Thiamin (B1) 10mg

-Riboflavin (B2) 15mg

-Niacin 25mg NE

-Pantothenic Acid 100mg

-B6 10mg

-B12 25ug

-Folic Acid 400ug

-Biotin 100ug

-Choline Bitartrate 250mg

-Inositol 250mg

-PABA 50mg

 

Inositol 1000mg (Started as of today, may increase dosage to 2000mg)

Magnesium Oxide 500mg

-providing elemental magnesium 300mg

Omega 3 Fish Oil

- EPA 660mg

- DHA 440mg

 

Prescribed Vitamin D (Stexerol-D3) 25,000IU twice weekly

 

I sometimes use MDMA, valium and weed recreationally. But I stress the "sometimes". I am in no way addicted.

 

I'm looking for advice on what to try. Whether dopamine receptor upregulation might be the way to go (Uridine)? Can I simultaneously take l-tyrosine and a dopamine upregulator? 

 

I'm also conscious that I may just suffer from a form of schizoid personality disorder. 

 

I'm looking for help and I'm really running out of options. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by critriksy, 31 January 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[Duchykins]

" I'd taken MDMA three days earlier so that seems unlikely."

 

 

Yeah it does, because people who take that shit can experience the side effects up to 7 days later.  If you check around places like Bluelight and reddit you'll find people asking about seizures and other weird shit happening to them 1 and 3 days after their use.

 

Never use it again.  If you are unwilling to do that, then you might actually have a problem with it.

 

If you're convinced you have some kind of chemical imbalance related to dopamine, then benzos can only do you more harm than good.  

 

Even going by what you describe, I would have said stop using valium immediately.  GABA (and therefore GABAergics) is inhibitory and suppresses dopaminergic, serotonergic and norepinephrine activity.  All across the board.

 

Your B vitamin complex is incredibly weak.  15 mg of riboflavin?  10 mg of thiamine?  Don't make me laugh.  Buy riboflavin by itself in 100 mg capsules, match it to thiamine caps in 100 mg.  You can take both up to 400 mg daily.   Add 100 or 200 mg of CoQ10 to that.  200 mg pantethine x 2/day.  Sublingual adenosylcobalamin.   And get some ginger/turmeric caps, or make a daily habit of getting Pukka Three Ginger blend of tea and steeping it for 10 mins before drinking.  The shit works incredibly well in combination with everything else I mentioned.

 

You need to try to kick your mitochondrial functioning into high gear.

 

I've tried uridine UMP and triacetyluridine.  They didn't seem good for me, and I'm not sure why but I suspect it has something to do with excessive cholinergic activity.   However, Lion's Mane mushroom kicked my ass in a good way.

 

I too have been suspecting if I am schizoid.  I have a weird mix of problems, definitely have a form of PTSD (the hypervigiliance and hyperarousal has been pronounced for years) with ample cause for it, ADHD and bipolar runs my family, and my doctors are having trouble deciding whether I'm schizoid or autistic (Asperger's), I think partly because I don't have conduct problems but hit many of the marks on both checklists.  All of this is complicated by migraines that began when I was 21.

 

I can't tell you anything about tyrosine from a personal POV since I have a very low tolerance for tyrosine and phenylalanine (both of them lead to increased tyramine, which is a migraine trigger).  So over the years I have developed a sort of instinctive avoidance of foods that just happen to be strong sources of the stuff - which means I probably had insufficient dopamine support during those years before I started getting into supplements.

 

I do wonder if you have a problem with histamine.  This is not about allergies.  Histamine actually plays an important role in brain function, and has relationships with dopamine and glutamate in the brain.

Edited by Duchykins, 04 February 2017 - 12:35 AM.

[critriksy]

Right, ditching the valium entirely and I wasn't intending on taking MDMA anytime soon either. I also have Phenibut which i was intending on using as a substitute for alcohol, but if you're saying to steer clear from GABAergics then perhaps that's a bad idea. Phenibut definitely does help me on night's out to loosen up but I need to use a process of elimination and work out if it really is the dopamine causing the apathy/demotivation/cognition impairment. 

 

I'm wondering if valium's particularly long half life was actually what was reducing the efficacy of the Tyrosine then? I have been using it relatively regularly but haven't touched it for probably 5 days now. 

 

Thanks for the pointers on my stack, I didn't realise how many flaws there were in it. Guess i'll keep using the B-complex but increase the dosages of the things you suggested separately whilst also giving the ginger/turmeric and everything else you've suggested a spin. 

 

My mum's a counsellor and has also suggested that I have autistic tendencies but I'm not entirely convinced, either way I saw my GP today and I'm on a waiting list for a psychiatrist, he said he'd be surprised if I get seen within 6 months which is obviously fantastic.. gives me some time to play around with my stack but to stop experimenting with anything too heavy i.e valium. 

 

Histamine is an interesting thing to suggest, I have no idea how I'd go about looking into it though?

 

Thanks a lot for your response, I've been a long time lurker on forums like this without actually seeking advice. 

[Duchykins]

You can try some googling about histamine and glutamate, then histamine and dopamine, then dopamine and glutamate.  They're all interrelated in different ways.  It's too hard for me to lay it all out right now.

 

However, you can do a cheap, quick and fairly harmless experiment on yourself by trying out a few different OTC non-drowsy antihistamines.  I had some luck with cetirizine (zrytec) and loratadine (claritin) but had no apparent adverse effects with the zrytec so I stuck with that.  Occasionally Flonase.  They all target different histamine receptors so they don't have the same effect on everyone.

 

Try one antihistamine at a time.  Anything but benedryl.  Take a dose every day for one week, maybe two weeks, and keep track of any changes in yourself, if any.  Note that these antihistamines need a full 24 hours before working properly.  If there's no slight change in anything in 3 days, then it's probably not going to do anything at all

 

You can also experiment on yourself by eating some foods that are high in histamine, and see how they make you feel.  Then you can try some foods that contain natural chemicals that inhibit the breakdown of histamine, and see how they make you feel.   You can find lists of these foods online and read a little more about them.

 

For example, eating a whole orange, or having a fresh fruit smoothie, or an avocado, tends to make me feel strangely irritable to be around people, anhedonic and lethargic all at the same time, for several hours after ingestion.

 

Remember this is not about allergies.  This is about mood, concentration, sleep quality and general energy levels.

Edited by Duchykins, 06 February 2017 - 06:20 AM.