76 replies to this topic

[kt69]

I have been suffering from depression, anxiety, anhedonia, aphaty, lack of motivation, and lack of emotions for as long as i can remember now, even as a young child. Phenibut is the only thing so far that works. Edit: stimulants, kratom and alcohol also work but probably just because they get me high / drunk.

I first discovered phenibut about two years ago and have been using it twice a week ever since. It literally takes 90% of my issues away in a matter of 2 hours!

I have tried therapy for years and have also used several antidepressants but to no avail. It didn't do a thing. I have come to a point now where i just don't want to feel shitty anymore for 5 days a week. I just want to be happy, be able to hold down a job, make friends, and function properly in society. Phenibut is the only thing so far that allows me to do those things and I don't want to plan my life around those 2 phenibut days a week anymore.

Are there alternatives that can do what phenibut does for me without addiction and tolerance issues? If not, what is the best way to use it daily while minimizing the risks, and do you think it is worth it in my case?

Thanks.

Edited by kt69, 31 January 2017 - 11:38 PM.

[gamesguru]

fasoracetam and ginseng, both GABAB antagonists.  phenibut is an agonist.

 

if not effective in their own rite they'll help re-sensitize you to phenibut and bring about the sense of relief, the restored hedonic capacity about which the topic starter is so incredulous

 

Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2012 Feb;69(2):139-49. doi: 10.1001/archgenpsychiatry.2011.131. Epub 2011 Oct 3.

Anterior cingulate cortex γ-aminobutyric acid in depressed adolescents: relationship to anhedonia.

Gabbay V¹, Mao X, Klein RG, Ely BA, Babb JS, Panzer AM, Alonso CM, Shungu DC.

 

Abstract

CONTEXT:

Anhedonia, a core symptom of major depressive disorder (MDD) and highly variable among adolescents with MDD, may involve alterations in the major inhibitory amino acid neurotransmitter system of γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA).

OBJECTIVE:

To test whether anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) GABA levels, measured by proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy, are decreased in adolescents with MDD. The associations of GABA alterations with the presence and severity of anhedonia were explored.

DESIGN:

Case-control, cross-sectional study using single-voxel proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy at 3 T.

SETTING:

Two clinical research divisions at 2 teaching hospitals.

PARTICIPANTS:

Twenty psychotropic medication-free adolescents with MDD (10 anhedonic, 12 female, aged 12-19 years) with episode duration of 8 weeks or more and 21 control subjects group matched for sex and age.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Anterior cingulate cortex GABA levels expressed as ratios relative to unsuppressed voxel tissue water (w) and anhedonia scores expressed as a continuous variable.

RESULTS:

Compared with control subjects, adolescents with MDD had significantly decreased ACC GABA/w (t = 3.2; P < .003). When subjects with MDD were categorized based on the presence of anhedonia, only anhedonic patients had decreased GABA/w levels compared with control subjects (t = 4.08; P < .001; P(Tukey) < .001). Anterior cingulate cortex GABA/w levels were negatively correlated with anhedonia scores for the whole MDD group (r = -0.50; P = .02), as well as for the entire participant sample including the control subjects (r = -0.54; P < .001). Anterior cingulate cortex white matter was also significantly decreased in adolescents with MDD compared with controls (P = .04).

CONCLUSIONS:

These findings suggest that GABA, the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, may be implicated in adolescent MDD and, more specifically, in those with anhedonia. In addition, use of a continuous rather than categorical scale of anhedonia, as in the present study, may permit greater specificity in evaluating this important clinical feature.

[Galaxyshock]

I know the feeling. Phenibut works very well for anhedonia, depression and anxiety. I've been trying to mimic its effects with other substances but nothing quite does the job so well. Tianeptine worked to some extent, and so did St. John's Wort. Regardless, I've been taking Phenibut daily for several months now. I definitely don't like the idea of being addicted to GABA-agonists, the withdrawals can be brutal. But it is what it is. I have prescription for Diazepam, and benzos can make the withdrawal a lot more tolerable. There are few users here in Longecity who have taken Phenibut for years at doses 2-3 grams. If you can keep yourself from escalating doses, and have some benzos in hand just in case, then maybe it can in fact work as a lifestyle drug.

 

I'm curious about Fasoracetam as it could reverse the tolerance. NMDA-antagonists don't work for Phenibut tolerance unfortunately.

[stan08]

I know the feeling. Phenibut works very well for anhedonia, depression and anxiety. I've been trying to mimic its effects with other substances but nothing quite does the job so well. Tianeptine worked to some extent, and so did St. John's Wort. Regardless, I've been taking Phenibut daily for several months now. I definitely don't like the idea of being addicted to GABA-agonists, the withdrawals can be brutal. But it is what it is. I have prescription for Diazepam, and benzos can make the withdrawal a lot more tolerable. There are few users here in Longecity who have taken Phenibut for years at doses 2-3 grams. If you can keep yourself from escalating doses, and have some benzos in hand just in case, then maybe it can in fact work as a lifestyle drug.

I'm curious about Fasoracetam as it could reverse the tolerance. NMDA-antagonists don't work for Phenibut tolerance unfortunately.

What kind of dose have you been using every day? I have also been using tianeptine with some success but it doesn't seem to work as well as low phenibut doses.

[kt69]

I know the feeling. Phenibut works very well for anhedonia, depression and anxiety. I've been trying to mimic its effects with other substances but nothing quite does the job so well. Tianeptine worked to some extent, and so did St. John's Wort. Regardless, I've been taking Phenibut daily for several months now. I definitely don't like the idea of being addicted to GABA-agonists, the withdrawals can be brutal. But it is what it is. I have prescription for Diazepam, and benzos can make the withdrawal a lot more tolerable. There are few users here in Longecity who have taken Phenibut for years at doses 2-3 grams. If you can keep yourself from escalating doses, and have some benzos in hand just in case, then maybe it can in fact work as a lifestyle drug.

I'm curious about Fasoracetam as it could reverse the tolerance. NMDA-antagonists don't work for Phenibut tolerance unfortunately.

What about tolerance? A lot of people say that it wil keep rising and you'll eventually use 10 grams a day just to avoid withdrawals. Did tolerance level out for you?

Edited by kt69, 01 February 2017 - 11:41 AM.

[gamesguru]

I'm curious about Fasoracetam as it could reverse the tolerance. 

 

it goes even deeper than that.  especially after you quit it, it could be very effective and totally mimic phenibut.  ginseng is probably a bit weak, but you could try.  Selank is another one frequently mentioned for anhedonia, and again I'm thinking it's got to do with GABAB

Our results showed that Selank caused a number of alterations in the expression of genes involved in neurotransmission. The data obtained indicate that Selank is characterized by its complex effects on nerve cells, and one of its possible molecular mechanisms is associated with allosteric modulation of the GABAergic system.

[jroseland]

Meditation man. You gotta do it consistently.

[Hip]

For anxiety see: Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements! - Mental Health - LONGECITY

[Hip]

By the way, there is a virus going around which in some people causes the symptoms of depression, anxiety, anhedonia, apathy, lack of motivation, and lack of emotions (blunted affect). See my website about this virus. 

[kt69]

I'm curious about Fasoracetam as it could reverse the tolerance.

it goes even deeper than that. especially after you quit it, it could be very effective and totally mimic phenibut. ginseng is probably a bit weak, but you could try. Selank is another one frequently mentioned for anhedonia, and again I'm thinking it's got to do with GABAB

Our results showed that Selank caused a number of alterations in the expression of genes involved in neurotransmission. The data obtained indicate that Selank is characterized by its complex effects on nerve cells, and one of its possible molecular mechanisms is associated with allosteric modulation of the GABAergic system.

Thanks for the suggestions! I have read about fasoracetam being used to keep phenibut tolerance down but never as a treatment on its own. How much would you have to take and how long to get those effects? Selank also looks promising. I will look into that too.

By the way, there is a virus going around which in some people causes the symptoms of depression, anxiety, anhedonia, apathy, lack of motivation, and lack of emotions (blunted affect). See my website about this virus.

Thanks! I will definitely read both your links.

This is a great forum! So many helpful responses already! Thank you and keep them coming!

Edited by kt69, 01 February 2017 - 06:32 PM.

[gamesguru]

tribulus, ginseng, and resveratrol work at least in the case of stress-induced anhedonia.  prescription choices for broader cases include bromocriptine, riluzole, naltrexone and ketamine

 

no one's drawn attention to fasoracetam in the context of anhedonia no one's made an experience report about it, but i wouldn't be surprised if it came to light

[truboy]

Baclofen is very similar to phenibut and less addictive.
Aniracetam is a bit similar too.

Never tried first 2 my self, but that's what guys at reddit keep telling.

[kt69]

Baclofen is very similar to phenibut and less addictive.
Aniracetam is a bit similar too.

Never tried first 2 my self, but that's what guys at reddit keep telling.

Aniracetam does absolutely nothing for me, just like most racetams i have tried. Only phenylpiracetam had some effect but I can't say I like it.
Baclofen is a prescription drug in my country so will be difficult to get. I'm going to explore other options first.

[truboy]

 

Baclofen is very similar to phenibut and less addictive.
Aniracetam is a bit similar too.

Never tried first 2 my self, but that's what guys at reddit keep telling.

Baclofen is a prescription drug in my country so will be difficult to get. I'm going to explore other options first.

 

 

In my too. I've previously ordered prescription only drugs from alldaychemist, they located in India and sell cheap generic but quality stuff.

The deprenyl i ordered from them is top quality.
 

You can try ordering from them.

[Galaxyshock]

 

 

 

 

What kind of dose have you been using every day? I have also been using tianeptine with some success but it doesn't seem to work as well as low phenibut doses.

 

What about tolerance? A lot of people say that it wil keep rising and you'll eventually use 10 grams a day just to avoid withdrawals. Did tolerance level out for you?

 

 

I'm taking 2 grams twice a day. I did take bit excessive doses in recreational purposes some times which is why my dose got a bit high, I'm now cutting it down a bit. It seems that many of us find that the tolerance does indeed level out at certain point and some of the therapeutic effects remain forever. You may not get that clear euphoriant effect of the first few times, but it will remain very decent anxiolytic, antidepressive and anhedonia-treating compound. I think the problem in many cases is that they indeed seek that intoxicating effect and keep taking more and more building massive tolerance. Instead, one can carefully try and see if it can work as therapeutic tool at doses 2-4 grams very maximum. If you have to take more than that then it spells trouble and a taper-off is probably the best course of action. I found that Bacopa when started a few weeks earlier before a taper-off makes it a lot easier. I know the GABA-upregulating property of it isn't necessary true, but Bacopa definitely does something and is effective anxiolytic nootropic on its own.

 

Then again, this is risky and you have to be prepared in case something goes wrong. I've had bad withdrawals from Phenibut too when not doing things right.

 

it goes even deeper than that.  especially after you quit it, it could be very effective and totally mimic phenibut.  ginseng is probably a bit weak, but you could try.  Selank is another one frequently mentioned for anhedonia, and again I'm thinking it's got to do with GABAB

 

 

We must know though that Phenibut is not just a GABA-B agonist but also voltage-gated calcium channel blocker and TAAR-antagonist. These additional mechanisms make it different than Baclofen for example. So I doubt Fasoracetam alone can deliver the same results but it can help to some extent.

[kt69]

 

 

 

 

 

What kind of dose have you been using every day? I have also been using tianeptine with some success but it doesn't seem to work as well as low phenibut doses.

 

What about tolerance? A lot of people say that it wil keep rising and you'll eventually use 10 grams a day just to avoid withdrawals. Did tolerance level out for you?

 

 

I'm taking 2 grams twice a day. I did take bit excessive doses in recreational purposes some times which is why my dose got a bit high, I'm now cutting it down a bit. It seems that many of us find that the tolerance does indeed level out at certain point and some of the therapeutic effects remain forever. You may not get that clear euphoriant effect of the first few times, but it will remain very decent anxiolytic, antidepressive and anhedonia-treating compound. I think the problem in many cases is that they indeed seek that intoxicating effect and keep taking more and more building massive tolerance. Instead, one can carefully try and see if it can work as therapeutic tool at doses 2-4 grams very maximum. If you have to take more than that then it spells trouble and a taper-off is probably the best course of action. I found that Bacopa when started a few weeks earlier before a taper-off makes it a lot easier. I know the GABA-upregulating property of it isn't necessary true, but Bacopa definitely does something and is effective anxiolytic nootropic on its own.

 

Then again, this is risky and you have to be prepared in case something goes wrong. I've had bad withdrawals from Phenibut too when not doing things right.

 

it goes even deeper than that.  especially after you quit it, it could be very effective and totally mimic phenibut.  ginseng is probably a bit weak, but you could try.  Selank is another one frequently mentioned for anhedonia, and again I'm thinking it's got to do with GABAB

 

 

We must know though that Phenibut is not just a GABA-B agonist but also voltage-gated calcium channel blocker and TAAR-antagonist. These additional mechanisms make it different than Baclofen for example. So I doubt Fasoracetam alone can deliver the same results but it can help to some extent.

 

 

I think I might give it a try then. I should be fine as long as I keep enough phenibut in stock to slowly taper off if I have to. Selank seems a bit hit or miss and is very expensive. The herbal alternatives also sound good but only if i stack a couple, and that would also be difficult to afford for me...

[gamesguru]

Lots of things block the calcium channel: curcumin, magnesium and lappaconitine to name a few.

Same for TAAR1: EPPTB, Celastrus Paniculatus and rat urine.

 

But if these mechanisms were the primaries of phenibut, fasoracetam would not reduce hedonic tolerance to it.  I don't know whether that's the case or not, I've never tried either.  I can tell you baclofen is actually bad for anhedonia, and absolutely the worst thing for someone with existing depression or anxiety.  So, by extension, fasoracetam is perhaps the best?

 

These data, combined with the emerging preclinical and clinical data, suggest that GABA_B receptor activation represents a potential new therapy for drug addiction. Additionally, the data in the present study suggest that rather than using a full agonist, such as baclofen, which displayed anhedonic-like effects, positive modulation of the GABA_B system represents a more selective blockade of the rewarding properties of cocaine.

[Galaxyshock]

 

 

I think I might give it a try then. I should be fine as long as I keep enough phenibut in stock to slowly taper off if I have to. Selank seems a bit hit or miss and is very expensive. The herbal alternatives also sound good but only if i stack a couple, and that would also be difficult to afford for me...

 

 

 

 

 

In that case, I would still suggest to get a two week benzo supply just to be sure. It can make it painless to withdraw if you have to. I really don't want you to get in trouble with this.

 

 

 

Lots of things block the calcium channel: curcumin, magnesium and lappaconitine to name a few.

Same for TAAR1: EPPTB, Celastrus Paniculatus and rat urine.

 

But if these mechanisms were the primaries of phenibut, fasoracetam would not reduce hedonic tolerance to it.  I don't know whether that's the case or not, I've never tried either.  I can tell you baclofen is actually bad for anhedonia, and absolutely the worst thing for someone with existing depression or anxiety.  So, by extension, fasoracetam is perhaps the best?

 

These data, combined with the emerging preclinical and clinical data, suggest that GABA_B receptor activation represents a potential new therapy for drug addiction. Additionally, the data in the present study suggest that rather than using a full agonist, such as baclofen, which displayed anhedonic-like effects, positive modulation of the GABA_B system represents a more selective blockade of the rewarding properties of cocaine.

 

 

 

Indeed, but Phenibut is defined as Gabapentinoid similar to Pregabalin, and we do know that is bigger gun than magnesium or rat urine hehe. But you're right, there is something strange about the GABA-B receptor. Baclofen is anti-addictive whereas Phenibut is addictive. In fact, Phenibut can be compared to milder GHB in its rewarding quality (GHB is GABA-B agonist too, along with being GHB-receptor agonist). The metabotropic glutamate receptors (which Fasoracetam acts on) and GABA-B are interconnected and seem to modulate reward. One reported side effect of Fasoracetam is loss of orgasm reward. But it is also known to bring the Phenibut "magic" back that some have lost, so go figure. There's a thread here people trialing Fasoracetam for negative symptoms of schizophrenia with mixed results.

 

I do want to try Fasoracetam, do you know a supplier in Europe?

[gamesguru]

I would even say phenibut has mixed results, sometimes making people more suicidal and withdrawn.. brutally awful side effects which aren't seen during the acute phase.  But the sexual anhedonia with fasoracetam is definitely concerning, anything with that kind of power could certainly also take the joy out of a child's Christmas morning.  I just don't like half the things you mention (GHB, etc) and would much prefer to accomplish this with ginseng for GABA-B, magnesium/curcumin for Ca++ channels, and forgoe the TA1R.  Plain mitragynine for 5-ht2a (which co-regulates accumbal dopamine) would be just as helpful.  Curcumin also has the benefit of inhibiting too many glutamate releases, which can be another causer of anhedonia.

 

Is it regulated in your country or you have shipping speed concerns or something?  This supplier ships from within the EU, but I checked his FAQs and he can't be bothered to check all the particular laws for each supplement.  I reckon you could even get away with ordering a controlled one and no one would be the wiser.  Not like they're out to get you with some racetam-sniffing dog sitting in a back room next to a detective whose cloak is full of state-of-the-art reagent tests.... or do they?

[stan08]

 

 

 

 

 

What kind of dose have you been using every day? I have also been using tianeptine with some success but it doesn't seem to work as well as low phenibut doses.

 

What about tolerance? A lot of people say that it wil keep rising and you'll eventually use 10 grams a day just to avoid withdrawals. Did tolerance level out for you?

 

 

I'm taking 2 grams twice a day. I did take bit excessive doses in recreational purposes some times which is why my dose got a bit high, I'm now cutting it down a bit. It seems that many of us find that the tolerance does indeed level out at certain point and some of the therapeutic effects remain forever. You may not get that clear euphoriant effect of the first few times, but it will remain very decent anxiolytic, antidepressive and anhedonia-treating compound. I think the problem in many cases is that they indeed seek that intoxicating effect and keep taking more and more building massive tolerance. Instead, one can carefully try and see if it can work as therapeutic tool at doses 2-4 grams very maximum. If you have to take more than that then it spells trouble and a taper-off is probably the best course of action. I found that Bacopa when started a few weeks earlier before a taper-off makes it a lot easier. I know the GABA-upregulating property of it isn't necessary true, but Bacopa definitely does something and is effective anxiolytic nootropic on its own.

 

Then again, this is risky and you have to be prepared in case something goes wrong. I've had bad withdrawals from Phenibut too when not doing things right.

 

it goes even deeper than that.  especially after you quit it, it could be very effective and totally mimic phenibut.  ginseng is probably a bit weak, but you could try.  Selank is another one frequently mentioned for anhedonia, and again I'm thinking it's got to do with GABAB

 

 

We must know though that Phenibut is not just a GABA-B agonist but also voltage-gated calcium channel blocker and TAAR-antagonist. These additional mechanisms make it different than Baclofen for example. So I doubt Fasoracetam alone can deliver the same results but it can help to some extent.

 

 

Can't imagine taking 2 grams twice a day.  The most I've been able to take over a long period is 500 mg/day (usually split in the morning and afternoon).  Any higher makes me groggy and a little nauseous.  Did you start much lower and built to that dose over time as tolerance set in or did you have to start pretty high to notice any effect?

[airplanepeanuts]

I use 100mg Modafinil in a similar way as the topic starter, once or twice a week. It's very anti hedonic for me in combination with Gastrodin and a lot of caffeine.

While I had a couple of great days with Phenibut I don't use it regularly because the effect is less predictable and the days after are so unpleasant. 

For me the great think about Modafinil is that there seems to be little tolerance and the next day I'm fine.

[Galaxyshock]

 

 

Can't imagine taking 2 grams twice a day.  The most I've been able to take over a long period is 500 mg/day (usually split in the morning and afternoon).  Any higher makes me groggy and a little nauseous.  Did you start much lower and built to that dose over time as tolerance set in or did you have to start pretty high to notice any effect?

 

 

First time I took Phenibut was 6 years ago and I've been on and off it several times ever since. Initially it worked in doses as low as 300mg and high doses would make me sleep ridiculous amounts and feel hangover afterwards. But certainly I now tend to need more to feel it. Although, once after withdrawing from it and then reinstating I could again notice effects from it even at the small 300mg dose. Tolerance for me quickly climbs to that 2 gram range but stays there. If 500mg works for you continously then great, you are sensitive to it and a supply will last a long time.

[Galaxyshock]

I would even say phenibut has mixed results, sometimes making people more suicidal and withdrawn.. brutally awful side effects which aren't seen during the acute phase.  But the sexual anhedonia with fasoracetam is definitely concerning, anything with that kind of power could certainly also take the joy out of a child's Christmas morning.  I just don't like half the things you mention (GHB, etc) and would much prefer to accomplish this with ginseng for GABA-B, magnesium/curcumin for Ca++ channels, and forgoe the TA1R.  Plain mitragynine for 5-ht2a (which co-regulates accumbal dopamine) would be just as helpful.  Curcumin also has the benefit of inhibiting too many glutamate releases, which can be another causer of anhedonia.

 

Is it regulated in your country or you have shipping speed concerns or something?  This supplier ships from within the EU, but I checked his FAQs and he can't be bothered to check all the particular laws for each supplement.  I reckon you could even get away with ordering a controlled one and no one would be the wiser.  Not like they're out to get you with some racetam-sniffing dog sitting in a back room next to a detective whose cloak is full of state-of-the-art reagent tests.... or do they?

 

 

Yes I don't necessarily like it either. But when it comes to anhedonia, only directly rewarding substances deliver the results in far too many cases. I love Ginseng it's amazing herb, but doesn't produce similar results unfortunately. It has broad range of therapeutic effects though so I use it time to time. Magnesium for example can actually induce anxiety by releasing cholecystokinin. Taking bunch of stuff to get like 30% of Phenibut's effects just isn't appealing. Maybe when being off Phenibut experimenting with different combinations is wise and if something works well enough then by all means stick to it. I've used ton of substances yet I seem to always come back to Phenibut because it works and it works well.

 

Thanks for the link. I think Fasoracetam may be regulated in my country, at least Piracetam is so I assume its derivates too. But shipping within EU should get the package through.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 09 February 2017 - 12:52 PM.

[gamesguru]

You make a strong case for phenibut.  I would very much like to give it a shot, but I have learned the hard way that I don't mix well with habit forming compounds.  Honestly, I'm not convinced you've trialed everything under the sun and I still take it with a grain of salt that you've elevated phenibut to superstar status.  For me achieving the 30% of phenibut may be enough, because I feel like my attitude accounts for 70% of my depression.  Seems yours is less a matter of choice

[kt69]

You make a strong case for phenibut.  I would very much like to give it a shot, but I have learned the hard way that I don't mix well with habit forming compounds.  Honestly, I'm not convinced you've trialed everything under the sun and I still take it with a grain of salt that you've elevated phenibut to superstar status.  For me achieving the 30% of phenibut may be enough, because I feel like my attitude accounts for 70% of my depression.  Seems yours is less a matter of choice

You also have to look at the costs and the effort. Having to take multiple expensive supplements multiple times a day just to get a fraction of the effects isn't really apealling. Phenibut only needs to be taken in the morning and a € 20 tub can last me at least a month.

Edited by kt69, 09 February 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[gamesguru]

These supplements aren't that expensive.  I spend like 2 or 3 dollars a day on everything.  What isn't really appealing is getting dependent on another substance.  I've read horror stories about phenibut, worse ones than I ever read for weed, so forgive my skepticism.  Even though you'd expect it, I don't get withdrawals from dopaminergics like ginseng.  And I bet the right combination could be really effective.  At least you could take phenibut at a much lower dose.

[kt69]

These supplements aren't that expensive.  I spend like 2 or 3 dollars a day on everything.  What isn't really appealing is getting dependent on another substance.  I've read horror stories about phenibut, worse ones than I ever read for weed, so forgive my skepticism.  Even though you'd expect it, I don't get withdrawals from dopaminergics like ginseng.  And I bet the right combination could be really effective.  At least you could take phenibut at a much lower dose.

That would be doable yes. What exactly are you using? And how well does it work? 
Anything "herbal" other than kratom didn't do much for me.

[gamesguru]

I honestly should give kratom a shot.  Less addictive than phenibut, and it's good for anxiety too.  Mitragynine is one of the few natural 5-HT2A antagonists, that can help regulate dopamine.

 

As for my stack, which is basically ginseng and shilajit, plus weak secondary stuffs like magnesium, ginkgo, ginger, bacopa.. everything together with the tea and protein powder is closer to 5 or 6 dollars.  That's if you take it everyday, which as pointed out is a big pain in the ass and an easy task to neglect.

 

Honestly it works good at putting joy back into daily activity.  Doesn't help stabilize my emotions, but that's a talk for another day.  Like I said, attitude is big for me, even if I'm in a good physical state (thanks to ginseng?), I can gradually sway myself into thinking salsa dancing or sitting on the beach is boring and pointless and it's time to go home.

[airplanepeanuts]

I tried Kratom once, didn't like it at all. Felt druggy tiring, no anti anhedonia effect.

[kt69]

I honestly should give kratom a shot.  Less addictive than phenibut, and it's good for anxiety too.  Mitragynine is one of the few natural 5-HT2A antagonists, that can help regulate dopamine.

 

As for my stack, which is basically ginseng and shilajit, plus weak secondary stuffs like magnesium, ginkgo, ginger, bacopa.. everything together with the tea and protein powder is closer to 5 or 6 dollars.  That's if you take it everyday, which as pointed out is a big pain in the ass and an easy task to neglect.

 

Honestly it works good at putting joy back into daily activity.  Doesn't help stabilize my emotions, but that's a talk for another day.  Like I said, attitude is big for me, even if I'm in a good physical state (thanks to ginseng?), I can gradually sway myself into thinking salsa dancing or sitting on the beach is boring and pointless and it's time to go home.

Thanks but yes it does sound like a pain in the ass. I can hardly take 5 pill bottles with me everywhere I go.  I do very much recognize what you say about unstable emotions, my mindset can change 180 degrees in a matter of an hour. That's one of the things that stop me from function normally. People don't know what to expect of me and start avoiding me, and it was also a major factor in me losing my last job. Phenibut helps a lot with that!

You should definitely try kratom, but it's main downside is it's short duration and as a consequence the costs of using it daily. I need to redose 7 grams every 3 hours if I want to have the benefits all day. That's a major hassle and also unaffordable for me so I only use it in the morning to wake up and get going.

 

 

 

I tried Kratom once, didn't like it at all. Felt druggy tiring, no anti anhedonia effect.

Sounds like bad kratom to me. Are you sure you got quality kratom from a good source? There are many bad kratom suppliers out there. Quality kratom gives me a large energy boost and gives me a mildly euphoric rush for a few hours where life is great and I enjoy everything.

Edited by kt69, 09 February 2017 - 11:21 PM.