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Anhedonia, personality changes, permanent effects from SNRI for 3+ years, still looking for a cure.

anhedonia snri ssri

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#1 lostwonder

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 09:27 PM


Hey everyone, this is my first post here, or anywhere online, relating to my anhedonia, personaity change, etc., which all began after I took Pristiq (SNRI) for approximately 4 months back in the fall of 2013.

Hopefully someone out there can relate, offer suggestions to help, or at least use some of what I've discovered in their own journey towards getting better.

 

For 31 years of my life I was what I would call "myself"...I was a creative person, loved to write, make music, was very extroverted and sociable. I loved life, was considered likeable, people told me I had a great sense of humour, etc.  I tended to be fairly sensitive, emotional, empathetic, and over time came to develop some social anxiety, something that at the time I thought required the use of drugs to 'fix'.

 

So I got some Pristiq from my GP and went on that for a few months.  At first, it was amazing, I felt socially invincible.  Everything seemed brighter, more vivid, and it seemed in many ways like my fear and anxiety had been blocked, or pushed out of focus.

 

After awhile, however, I realized this seemed to be the case with other emotions and feelings.  I had been an on/off smoker of cannabis for years, and realized from the beginning of my Pristiq experience that many of the effects I'd always had when I smoked...that feeling of 'mind-expansion', emotional effects, being able to experience music and things like that more deeply...were just gone.

 

A few months on, I decided to try going off Pristiq, as I was going on a trip with a friend and didn't want to be unable to relax and enjoy some of the more emotional things in life.  I'm generally a cautious person and wanted to make sure, too, that i COULD go off Pristiq without any issues.

 

I tapered off over the course of two weeks and haven't taken any pharmaceutical anti-depressants since then, mid- November 2013, but as the months went by, I began to experience a ton of really negative, difficult-to-describe effects.

These continued to grow steadily worse until in March, 2014, I couldn't take it anymore and decided things weren't just going to get better on their own, decided I needed to try to take something to help or I wasn't going to be able to handle it/life.

 

That's the basic intro, and since then I've had to completely rethink my life. Since then my number one priority has been "getting better", something I've pursued in a number of ways based on my research, and which has lead me to a lot of possible conclusions, but no "cure".

 

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In the months following my cessation of Pristiq, I realized I could no longer "feel" like I always had.  Emotions were blunted, distant, indistinct.  I guess I still HAD emotions, but it was like the emotions were a shell of their former selves, like I was experiencing them only from behind a wall, or like I was only experiencing 10% of the full emotion. Like I say, hard to describe exactly.

 

I was no longer affected by things like I used to be.  Emotions, but also substances.  I couldn't feel high from weed, couldn't get drunk, or even tipsy from alcohol.

I found myself unable to read people, like I used to be able to easily, in social situations, as if my empathy was just gone.  I found myself feeling detached or disconnected from myself, in a very real way, like I was viewing everything from "a few steps back", from behind a wall...

 

and, in a more abstract sense, I was detached from my own subconscious.  That constantly-flowing river of emotions, internal monologue, subconscious thought, was just gone.

I was always the type of person to be able to just go into a conversation with someone and wing it, trust in my self, my intuition, whatever you want to call it, but in this new state I would find myself reaching for the words, the right joke, the correct reaction, and finding nothing...almost as if where all my deeper self had always been there was just a blank space, or maybe a wall blocking me from it.

 

I found myself disconnected from my own memories, my own experiences seeming foggy and distant, as if I had seen them on film instead of experiencing them or something.

Over time I've also found it increasingly difficult to relate to that "old me", and who I was in those memories, because that person was influenced by emotions and all these things I now no longer feel.

 

My focus has also been affected in a major way.  I can no longer multi-task like I used to be able to, even with basic things.  If I am listening to a song, for example, and concentrating on the lyrics, I will be absolutely blind to anyone trying to talk to me. 

 

The best way I can describe this is like, if I was in school and the teacher was lecturing, and I wasn't really paying attention...doodling or talking with a friend... and suddenly the teacher called me out on it...  in the past, my whole life, I'd be able to take a second, dig into my passive memory, get a basic idea of what the teacher was saying, and act like I was paying attention.

 

I can no longer do that on any level.  Now I can focus on only one thing at a time, and it's like there's a very real, tangible "wall" keeping me from noticing, or focusing on anything else at that time.

 

If I'm talking to someone now, I'm focused 100% on that moment, meaning there is no "inner monologue" happening, there is nothing else, as if I've been blinded in a way.

This has absolutely destroyed my social life since I get thrown off and "space out" at the simplest of things in conversation, unable to "dig deeper" and actually think about what I'm saying because my entire focus, my entire mind, is occupied with "just getting through this conversation".

 

Let me be clear, this isn't like nervousness or anxiety, things I've experienced many many times in my life before Pristiq.  It's like that, but taken to an inhuman level, bolstered by drugs...as I say, like an artificial wall has been thrown up in my mind.

 

A couple more things:  The feeling of being unaffected, or detached, seems to also affect my perception of time.  I find myself spacing out a lot, realizing that time has passed without me really being aware of it, like being in a dream, or really high and going into a sort of autopilot mode.

 

I don't feel a connection with people, even people I care about deeply, even in situations where I want to or feel I should.  I've had to attend weddings of friends and family, graduations, all kinds of things where I KNOW I should feel something...happiness, pride, anything...and I just don't.

 

I go through the motions, do my best to get by and not make a total ass of myself, and then later look back on it all (something that just happened yesterday, let's say) as if it was some far-off, distant memory, or like it happened to someone else.

 

It's been over three years now, and I'm really starting to lose hope.  What's the point to just carrying on like this, when even the most intimate, real-life experiences seem meaningless or fake?

 

I've had to put any and all dreams, goals, plans for life on hold, my life completely derailed... I've disconnected myself from old friends, who I don't want to see me in this state (since I hate who I am now), who I want to "remember me as I was".  It's like I died, in some sense, not to be melodramatic, haha.

 

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I know this post is ridiculously long, but if you're still with me I'll just "quickly" go over the various substances I've tried, how they've affected me, and my personal theories on that, without going into too much detail.  Feel free to ask me anything and everything if you want to know more

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The first thing I tried was St. John's Wort, mainly because I'd read that a way to solve a lot of anti-depressant related issues was to re-introduce the drug that caused the problems.

I was absolutely opposed to ever taking Pristiq again, and so decided I'd try the thing that in my desperate first bit of research seemed closest in the 'natural world'.

 

SJW helped me manage my first/worst symptoms.  It made me feel less detached, able to be a bit more sociable and put things together a bit better in my mind.

It didn't, however, fully heal me, so eventually I moved on to other things.

 

I tried 5-HTP, which at first seemed hopeful, but which also seemed to lower my libido.  After awhile it also started to make me fairly lethargic and depressed.

 

Sam-E made me WAY more detached...even less emotional than I already was, which was scary.  I felt like a total zombie.

 

I tried valium, which made me space out and felt like a step backwards. I tried wormwood, as well as sage, both of which seemed to give me a bit of "clarity" but that's it.

 

None of these things ever gave me a true "window", or feeling of full emotion, they all just helped with some of my issues.

 

Eventually I tried Adderall, thinking maybe it would have some effect on the norepinephrine side of the SNRI, and discovered that it did, in fact, help with a lot of things...maybe more than anything else I've tried.

 

The strange thing about Adderall is that it has always seemed to help me the most during the "hangover" period.  While I'm ON Adderall I feel the increased focus, the ability to think quicker or with more complexity, but no real help with my pristiq-related bullshit.

 

The day AFTER, however, I often find myself the closest to my old self than I've been since the issues began...things are often much more "real" or clear seeming.  I find myself able to enjoy life more, feeling almost euphoric sometimes, though also a lot more relaxed than usual...chill, but in a non-anhedonic sense.

 

Sometimes these effects are more "dysphoric", but even then, the emotions that come are welcome, and I've found myself able to cry easily, often intentionally pushing myself towards thoughts that lead to me bawling my eyes out, just so I can FEEL SOMETHING REAL, something that actually overcomes me.

 

I tried menthol as well, which, weirdly, was one of the most unsettling things I've tried.  It resulted in me feeling a sort of 'dread' or almost anhedonic dysphoria for the couple of weeks I was on it, and was a very unpleasant experience, though also very difficult to describe.

 

I was basing my trial of that on its purported effects on NMDA receptors, and this experience convinced me not to risk trying Salvia, as it has some similar, albeit MUCH stronger, effects in that realm.

 

I also tried Phenylalanine after finding that it might have some similar norepinephrine-related effects to Adderall, and this resulted in me feeling the most hopeless, utterly despondent, suicidal, that I've felt since Pristiq after about a week of daily useage.

I have, actually, come back to that from time to time though, and had better experiences since.  This, along with Ginkgo, has seemed to have similar effects to Adderall in many ways, and these are all the things that I've found to truly affect me the most, emotionally.

 

I tried a low-level dose of MDMA, and during this experience felt an increase in energy and desire to move, a lot of jaw clenching, but also a sense of "approaching emotion" but not being able to break through or get there fully...something I've experienced a few times, as if a wall is blocking me in some way.

 

I've tried magic mushrooms 5 times in the past 3 years as well, each time experiencing SOME small aspect of my former self, leading me to believe it hasn't been 'destroyed', but just blocked, something that has given me hope to push on, and not just kill myself.

 

The first time I took shrooms it seemed to cure the physical detachment part of my issues.  For a year I'd felt like two people, like my mind was floating just behind my body, or something like that.

The first shrooms experience post-pristiq brought those two sides together somehow, and since then I've at least felt whole.

 

HOWEVER, every shrooms experience has also left me feeling less affected over all by pretty much everything.  During the trips I often felt close to emotions, or closer to my former self...I also felt some psychedelic effects, and weed seemed to affect me more during those times...

but afterwards, I've always felt a bit more blunted, or anhedonic in the long run.

Like, weed affects me less, adderall affects me less, emotions and every day life affect me less.

 

and these effects have seemed permanent...resulting in me deciding that I'm done with psilocybin for now...I just can't risk making myself worse and reducing my ability to occasionally feel and escape with things like amphetamine.

 

I've tried a variety of opiates, which seemed to have no effect at all...from pure opium to percocets to kratom.  

 

Smoking cigarettes has occasionally given me a bit of a head rush, or helped me feel a little more "high" if I combine it with cannabis...but it has also made me sick occasionally.

 

I also wonder sometimes if I experienced Serotonin Syndrome back when I was still on pristiq, because one night I smoked a cigarette with a little weed and got very sick, vomiting and such about 15 minutes later.

Not sure if it'd be SS, but some of the symptoms match (?)

 

I've also tried Ketamine a number of times, after reading that it could be the new magical mystery cure...and though it definitely is one of the few things to truly affect me, allowing me to relax and even hallucinate vividly, it seemed to have absolutely NO effect on my emotions/anhedonia, or have any lasting effects after the trip.  I've tried both S-Ketamine and racemic, a total of four times, with pretty much the same result.

 

Lately I've been trying new routes.  I've tried Alpha GPC, the whole Choline thing, which seemed to have no effect.  I'm currently just taking a lot of anti-inflammatory stuff, thinking maybe that's related somehow, with no real noticeable results.

 

I should also say that fish oil seems to affect me, but whether it's positive or not is hard to say.  Sometimes it gets my heart racing, sometimes it makes me spacey.

 

Oh, and L-Dopa, Tyrosine, Kava Kava, Maca, Melatonin, Magnesium, L-Carnitine, Bacopa, L-Theanine, mucuna, all seem to do pretty much nothing as well.

Dopamine-related things have seemed to be the least effective, compared to Serotonin/Norepinephrine things.

 

Rhodiola did seem to affect me in some way, but like most of these things it only affected some of my lesser symptoms, and seemed to have negative side effects at times like spaciness.

 

Finally, just to add some other things I forgot...

 

I constantly have this pressure in my head, like I can never truly relax (except on those very rare days after Adderall, or on Ketamine), and often that feeling increases when I take certain substances.

Even smoking weed increases that pressure and agitation, doesn't relax me, doesn't "open my mind" in any way.

 

There is a constant dull anxiety, or something negative, in my mind most of the time as well.

 

Even the physical effects of alcohol seem to be diminished...and this is a good example of how I feel "unaffected" by things.  Almost like some section of my self, or my mind, is completely walled-off, viewing everything from a safe corner of my mind.

I can drink all night at a party with friends, and still show no signs of it...I can walk a straight line, I can think clearly, I don't slur my speech.  Even my friends tell me "you haven't had enough to drink, you're not even buzzed!"...

 

and then BAM! out of nowhere I've had too much and I'm sick, puking in the bathroom, completely skipping the gradual process of "getting drunk" I've always known.

 

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So that's my story in a nutshell...a really long, rambling nutshell, haha, but hopefully someone out there can benefit from it.  Good luck to anyone struggling with things like this, it's rare but I HAVE found others out there online dealing with similar issues...it's very real, and my experience has continued to give me hope that there IS, somehow somewhere, a way to get back to that old self we've lost, especially if we can share our stories and work together on this.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 jaiho

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 12:00 AM

I know exactly what you're feeling. It sounds like you're suffering a severe depression, which is a severe lack of emotion, feeling, Anhedonia.

I used to think the SSRI caused it for me but then i realised there are many ways for an individual to experience depression, from "over feeling" to complete lack of feeling.

I was also exactly like you, a sensitive person and after drug treatment for moderate depression, it became worse and now i have Anhedonia, detachment, blank mind etc, which is a progressed depression.

The only thing that has had any capability to return them is with broad range drug treatment + Ketamine.

 

SSRI + TCA (Zoloft + Nortriptyline)

or Parnate + Nortriptyline

Ketamine on top for fast onset remission.

NSI-189 is useful as well.

 

The best man to talk to about this would be Dr Gillman, he's an expert on providing full remission of the illness, he doesn't mess around with "responses" which is all SSRIs/SNRIs are really capable of.

http://www.psychotropical.com


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#3 Erewhonian

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 08:02 AM

Thanks for sharing - contrary to what you may think, it was actually pretty well written and kinda interesting.

 

You didn't bring up the terms depersonalization or derealization, but that seems to be what you're describing. Not that having a label or a diagnosis is really going to help here, but it's a not uncommon thing that is much less discussed than it should be.






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