26 replies to this topic

[eighthman]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22647733

 

I tend to think that dandelion root extracts may be senolytic, given the description of its actions.

[normalizing]

eighthman i noticed you post a lot of threads on "senolytics", maybe its best to do research on all you can find and just group them all in one thread and discuss

[joelcairo]

Also he could be more specific about what effect on cancer cells described in the study could equally apply to senescent cells.

[eighthman]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22363452

 

This looks similar to the action of Dasatinib.  And the previous study looks similar to the action of piperlongumine.   Since consuming dandelion tea has been widely done,  it looks very nontoxic.

 

 

[normalizing]

eightman, do you know the difference between in vivo and in vitro? kind of funny how a lot of high school kids join this forum and immediately post in vitro studies saying they have found the holly grail

[eighthman]

I occasionally post these items separately so that they will not be easily passed over in hope of some intelligent reply.  I state the matter as a question, not a fact, based on the extract's action in inducing autophagy or apoptosis in vitro and selected cell death thereby.

 

I also pay attention to accounts of cancer sufferers who fail to die in correlation with a speculative treatment as this seems much more significant than anecdotal evidence generally.  

 

And my screen name is 'eighthman".   

 

 

[Logic]

I haven't seen any anecdotal reports on the effectiveness of DR against various cancers Eighthman but assume there are many?
That being the case and keeping big pharma's aversion for natural molecules after their usefulness as a lead to ...'invent' a modified version in mind, I think in vitro studies worth looking at.

ie:  If there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that DR is proficient at killing certain cancers, looking at which intra cellular proteins are reduced in in vitro studies is constructive as bioavailability and pharmacokinetics can then be considered proven..?

 

From the below study it would seem that the proteins that one wants to downregulate for senescent cell clearance are BCL-W and BCL-XL.

Their downregulation is synergistic for senescent cell clearance while BCL-2 only plays a minor additive role. 
http://www.nature.co...les/ncomms11190

 

But BCL-W and BCL-XL are subsets of BCL-2 ???

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Bcl-2_family

So would seem that they may have looked at these two important proteins indirectly?
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3018636/

 

I would say that if any evidence can be found for the downregulation of BCL-W and BCL-XL by DR you are onto something.
If so, plz post here too!
http://www.longecity...-buy-from-nyles
 

[Andey]

 

 

I would say that if any evidence can be found for the downregulation of BCL-W and BCL-XL by DR you are onto something.
If so, plz post here too!
http://www.longecity...-buy-from-nyles
 

 

 

   Why to post in the group buy thread ? Seems to be totally unlogical for me ))

[eighthman]

I still await my Dasatinib.  Hope, hope.....

[YOLF]

Dandelion is a diuretic iirc. How do we know this isn't a bad senolytic? Episodes of dehydration will generally make you look and feel older and leave you that way if your past a certain age, maybe 30. So the senolytic effect, if done this way is very likely useless or counterproductive and may remove some cells at the expense of healthier ones.

 

I'm guessing that doing this with a SubQ drip would still be pretty bad for you unless you're holding too much water to begin with... then I'm thinking there are peptide solutions that could yield healthier or at least less damaging or pro aging results than systemic diuretics. This strategy could cause cardiovascular damage and I'm not sure that all of our readers could figure out how to use it without getting hurt. Older people coud experience cardiac events.

[aconita]

https://www.cancertu.../dandelionroot/

[eighthman]

Sometimes the reactions to speculative ideas here surprises me.

 

Many of us Older Folk take diuretics every day for hypertension. I suppose we could simply reduce that and monitor our BP accordingly.  

 

I would plan to grow some Dandelions this Spring - but regardless of any effort, they are likely to grow abundantly anyway.  If this actually treats cancer, what a wonderful way to escape any potential suppression.  You'll never get rid of them.

[joelcairo]

https://www.cancertu.../dandelionroot/

 

I've taken dandelion root regularly for years, but this article is junk. It's from a wild-eyed believer who thinks God himself told him the cure for cancer and gave him the exact preparation instructions in a vision.

[aconita]

It isn't a Pubmed study for sure...but since there were complains about the lack od anecdotal evidence and nobody provided any here you are.

 

Far from being a proof of effectiveness to dismiss any value just because God is called in cause seems a bit shortsighted to me....as it is to rely on Pubmed as the only source of truth, for that matter.

[eighthman]

http://www.bloodjour...so-checked=true

 

IMHO, standards of efficacy have been grossly distorted by the pharmaceutical industry.  There is too much dismissal of results by labeling them as anecdotal, especially if people fail to die.

 

Beyond that,  I believe that cancer halting biochemicals are almost certain to be found in plants that offer rapid aggressive growth - as with dandelions and seaweed.  If the growth is proper and coherent, there must be mechanisms that stop improper haphazard growth.  Also, apoptosis is naturally used to shut off 'wrong' growth in a developing plant.  

[YOLF]

For those wondering about my post, I'm speaking from personal experience from a bunch of herbs I've taken. We win some, we lose some, I lost some youth with dandelion and diuretics. I'd search for more appropriate drugs.

Actually, why not just compare this to fasting for a few days or going without water and managing a feel good level with a few sips here and there.

[eighthman]

????? Did you damage your kidneys? Or liver?  

 

[YOLF]

Me no, they work fine according to tests. My genetics produce an abundance of adrenaline though. But if you don't need a diuretic, you shouldn't take one. Maintaining the right level of water in the right places is an important factor in an efficiently running metabolism that isn't producing things that make you older. Cancer research isn't necessarily antiaging research and not everything that kills a cancer cell is a senolytic. It needs to extend life when given to healthy animals to actually be a senolytic. Otherwise it's just people using the wrong words or concepts for the wrong things and causing problems.

[eighthman]

https://www.fightagi...rug-candidates/

 

Looks like it's on a short list to be examined

[Logic]

 

 

 

I would say that if any evidence can be found for the downregulation of BCL-W and BCL-XL by DR you are onto something.
If so, plz post here too!
http://www.longecity...-buy-from-nyles
 

 

 

   Why to post in the group buy thread ? Seems to be totally unlogical for me ))

 

 

Well I am the person who has organised the group buy...  

 

While the group buy thread does have info on the buy,  (Price, progress etc.) the people most serious about senolytics tend to congregate there.

So these threads never stay on topic.  People will post their regimens and anecdotal reports etc and as different senescent cell types express different proteins to avoid apoptosis, doing so adds to or knowledge and isn't discouraged.

[YOLF]

https://www.fightagi...rug-candidates/

 

Looks like it's on a short list to be examined

Much more research will need to be done before you should start swallowing this to make yourself younger. Most of the things that do make you younger and increase your lifespan will increase sex drive and motivation. Does dandelion do that? If it did, herbalists would know it did and it would be in libido enhancement drugs. 

[eighthman]

Mea Culpa.  I read it too fast. They're looking at piperlongumine, not dandelions.  Sorry.

 

As to libido enhancement, I don't know....  We may end up with a sort of piecemeal approach to fighting aging - as with one thing to fight crosslinks, another for cellular junk and so on.  OTOH, I suppose you could reason that there should be some good signaling, even if only one of those obstacles (especially senescent cell removal) is overcome.

 

Too bad we can't just find a nice peptide to fix all of it, AFAIK.

[Andey]

 

https://www.fightagi...rug-candidates/

 

Looks like it's on a short list to be examined

Much more research will need to be done before you should start swallowing this to make yourself younger. Most of the things that do make you younger and increase your lifespan will increase sex drive and motivation. Does dandelion do that? If it did, herbalists would know it did and it would be in libido enhancement drugs. 

 

 

  Its too far stretched as a rule. Libido in itself is complicated matter as it a representention of neural activity as it is not a simple derivative from sex hormone levels or youth.

Lets say one is in boring even failed marriage, 35+ that have no energy left after work and kids. His sex drive would be lower than ground and his age, sex hormone levels would not matter at all.

Compare it with man in love, 45  yo but filled with energy from a succesfull life. 

[joelcairo]

I agree, aging and sex are two different things. I don't see anybody putting Niagen or quercetin or aspirin or Metformin in any of these herbal viagras either.

[YOLF]

I agree, aging and sex are two different things. I don't see anybody putting Niagen or quercetin or aspirin or Metformin in any of these herbal viagras either.

Yet quercetin, and aspirin when it isn't causing proaging ulcers, will raise your libido.

 

Metformin lowers sex hormones despite its effects. The efficacy of it's pathway is very limited, not self sustaining, and redundant considering it will have to be restored by other things that will also raise libido. But it's ok for now. You've misunderstood the marketing.

 

Niagen? It makes me more bored and less motivated and more care free. It's not the life extension I'm looking for, but perhaps those who are taking it are married with kids and don't have time to use more motivation in their lives, so won't miss it. I think of it as a smart therapy against wanting to get younger. It's true purpose might as well be to keep you from wanting more life extension and greater health. Though I'm not saying it isn't effective. Just that it's side effects are undesirable.

 

Rejuvenation is like peeling an orange, there are many ways to do it, some will require multiple slices into the peel, while others will make it come off all at once. Not just any rejuvenation will do, and in fact, some will slow down progress by creating false hopes and complacence among those interested in seeing results.

 

If you're not seeing that or don't understand it, you should take another look. It's counter productive to do it this way. Metformin is just a pilot episode of what is to come. It shows some life extension benefit, but we want Pharma to make a blockbuster life extension drug. It's utility to our mission is just to showcase an example of how drugs that extend life and slow aging create a staple that is continuously profitable and creates a better ROI. But it's basically all we had, it's a prototype that is still very flawed.

[MikeDC]

Why would Niagen make you more bored and less motivated?
Most people get more energy from Niagen. It is expected since Niagen rejuvenate Mitochandria which produces ATP.

[YOLF]

Why would Niagen make you more bored and less motivated?
Most people get more energy from Niagen. It is expected since Niagen rejuvenate Mitochandria which produces ATP.

I had discussed that elsewhere, but it's possible that it downregulated something or effected a feedback loop of some sort. I don't remember what conclusion I came to. But the side effect was apparent and faded a day or two after taking it. It is an ingredient in mothers milk and babies do sleep after drinking it. Perhaps it effects serotonin to too great a degree.