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Age-Related Macular Degeneration - Reversal

macular degeneration aging

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#1 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:39 AM


I have a 70 year old with age-related macular degeneration (amd) who takes a ton of supplements. One of his goals is to reverse his eyesight to that of his younger self - because some of his poor eyesight is genetic and such. I will go over the current progress in reversing his poor eyesight, what works and what doesn't (even if only temporarily).

 

Taurine. This was the first supplement he took which he noted improved his night and day vision, but after a couple of months, say 3-5 months, it stopped working. He was taking a gram a day.

 

Lutein and zeaxanthin. This was his second supplement he took for amd which he noted improved his night and day vision. He still takes these. The dosage is 20mg of lutein and 5mg or so of zeaxanthin but he was taking many capsules a day so not sure.

 

Cycloastragenol. He bought 5mg/30 capsules and noted temporarily improved his vision when he took 25mg or so.

 

Astragloside IV. He didn't buy this product for his eyesight but one would assume that it would work at least a bit like cycloastragenol, but he noted no effect even after a month of 50mg everyday with food. Even I couldn't feel this supplement at all.

 

Melatonin. In theory it should work at least temporarily, by being a strong antioxidant and lengthening telomeres in the eyes, but even after almost a month of 10mg a day he claims he doesn't feel a change (even if he hasn't taken his lutein and zeaxanthin). He will still persist taking this high dosage, for several reasons (immune system, antioxidant, lowers hormones, etc.).


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#2 Dorian Grey

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 05:45 PM

AMD is caused by free/labile iron, which is at the hart of the drusen deposits in the retina.  

 

Google: macular degeneration drusen iron; to read dozens of papers on this.  

 

Don't know if it can be effectively reversed, but controlling iron through therapeutic phlebotomy and chelation (quercetin, curcumin & IP6) should help slow progression of disease. 


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#3 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 08:42 PM

I hear people saying the same about gray hair but it appears that several things work pretty well. Maybe that iron causes localized oxidation as iron is known to be a strong pro-oxidant, and that would explain why localized antioxidants like lutein and zeaxanthin work. In the case that it's iron why shouldn't metal chelators be able to reverse it?



#4 Dorian Grey

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:51 PM

Number 7 on google results in my above mentioned search seem to indicate chelation may help

 

http://jamanetwork.c...larticle/415571

 

Maculas Affected by Age-Related Macular Degeneration Contain Increased Chelatable Iron in the Retinal Pigment Epithelium and Bruch's Membrane

 

"As the increased iron concentrations in AMD-affected eyes consist in part of a chelatable iron pool, treatment of patients who have AMD with iron chelators might be considered a potential therapy"

 

Medical iron chelators are often quite toxic, so medical chelation for AMD probably will not be explored anytime soon.  

 

You can dump more iron in 30 minutes down at a blood bank than you can chelate over several months, but I expect this might be difficult for senior populations.  

 

This leaves the natural iron chelators...  IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate), Quercetin and Curcumin.  Chelation with these is slow-going too, but they may help mop up free/labile iron (which is what causes the problem) at any stage of the game.  


Edited by synesthesia, 08 February 2017 - 10:54 PM.


#5 kmoody

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:09 PM

AMD is caused by free/labile iron, which is at the hart of the drusen deposits in the retina.  

 

Google: macular degeneration drusen iron; to read dozens of papers on this.  

 

Don't know if it can be effectively reversed, but controlling iron through therapeutic phlebotomy and chelation (quercetin, curcumin & IP6) should help slow progression of disease. 

This is factually incorrect. AMD is not caused by free/labile iron. This is likely a response to the hypoxic state of AMD diseased RPE cells that are attempting to overcome oxygen deficiency by over-expression of VEGF and transferrin pathways. At best, high levels of iron can exacerbate the disease, as can 100s of other things.

 

I hear people saying the same about gray hair but it appears that several things work pretty well. Maybe that iron causes localized oxidation as iron is known to be a strong pro-oxidant, and that would explain why localized antioxidants like lutein and zeaxanthin work. In the case that it's iron why shouldn't metal chelators be able to reverse it?

Are you taking the AREDS2 formulation in your supplement cocktail? The AREDS/2 formulation and cessation of smoking are the two current ways of reducing risk of AMD progression, assuming we are still talking about the dry AMD sub-type.

 

If progression to wet AMD has occurred, then you're on to shots of VEGF inhibitors. This should be discussed at detail with a retinal specialist (aka an MD) who can advise on disease stage and appropriate treatment regimens.


Edited by kmoody, 08 February 2017 - 11:10 PM.

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#6 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 01:20 AM

I'll defer to you're greater knowledge on this km. As with most etiologies, solitary phenomena are often confounded by co-factors.  

 

I'm curious as to whether AMD is ever seen in those without ferritin into triple digits.  



#7 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 10:22 AM

Are you taking the AREDS2 formulation in your supplement cocktail?

No. For grey hair I simply meant niacin, and for amd it's as mentioned in this thread.

If the iron deposits causing grey hair turned out to be true then it might explain why niacin (nicotinic acid) has reversed so much gray hair in this 70 year old as niacin is also a heavy metal chelator as far as I know, though it clearly has no reversed his amd in any way.
 



#8 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 04:30 AM

7 months (or more..) of taking melatonin at 10mg every day without a break, and my old relative's vision has not improved. So if melatonin increases telomere length in the eyes and works as an antioxidant there then these mechanisms are not important to restoring youthful eyesight. It's also possible that the 10mg dosage is too low although studies suggest 5-10mg.


Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 06 August 2017 - 04:31 AM.


#9 Dorian Grey

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 05:52 AM

Once damage extensive enough to cause noticeable symptoms has been done, I imagine it would be very difficult to undo, and halting or slowing progression of disease might be the best one might expect.  

 

Prevention is much easier to accomplish than is restoration of essentially destroyed tissues.  Reversing bone on bone osteoarthritis in the knee might be a good analogy.  Once the cartilage is gone, all the glucosamine/condroitin in the world probably won't bring this back, but perhaps it might prevent disease if taken early enough.  

 

An ounce of prevention, worth a pound of cure.  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 06 August 2017 - 05:54 AM.


#10 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 07:21 AM

Some supplements do work, as mentioned so it seems that it's not true that once the damage is done then it can't be reversed



#11 Multivitz

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:35 PM

OMG can't be reversed, wot?
Iodine boron vanadium zinc fresh veg molybdenum B's natural C, E's, A's, K2 d3 PC(choline) simmered tomatoes, real coffee now and then, olive leaf extract maybe.
Rub the eyes, don't eat gluten, job done, tell others about your journey. Expect corporate nonescience.
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#12 Multivitz

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:43 PM

Wait for the chance to put your pessimism to the test, or try boron and iodine supplements and find they allow the body parts to use the cofactors and building blocks for regeneration. Not reversible? I don't think I've ever mentioned that being fact!
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#13 HaplogroupW

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 11:04 PM

Here's a case of diet reversing drusen, if you believe the guy:

 

https://www.reddit.c...generation_amd/

 

There was also this related to diabetic retinopathy, on the same forum:

 

https://www.reddit.c..._my_wifes_eyes/

 

 



#14 joelcairo

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:22 PM

You could also investigate n-acetylcarnosine -- eyedrops not supplement. These are used by a lot of people to treat or ward off cataracts, but there seems to be some evidence for improvement of AMD as well. For example

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19105587

 

[edit: not to be confused with NAC/n-acetylcystesine]


Edited by joelcairo, 29 September 2017 - 03:24 PM.

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#15 Multivitz

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 03:11 PM

Carnosine works well. It should be taken over a long time.
Donating blood works really well, most practitioners recommend it, you may have to get permission form the GP for extra donor visits. And of course don't let your guy go too anemic by using methylated B vitamins twice a week. Magnesium dissolves old heme, so plenty of greens. Vitamin E protects ones tissues from parasites, Gamma E works inside the cells, just be sure vit A levels are maintained by fresh food.
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#16 Ibbz

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:57 AM

Some supplements do work, as mentioned so it seems that it's not true that once the damage is done then it can't be reversed

 

You may have already tried astaxanthin seems you mentioned Lutein and zeaxanthin, but all 3 together have have had positive results - 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3738980/

 

The Carotenoids in Age-Related Maculopathy in Italians Study (CARMIS) was a randomized intervention in which patients received a combination of 10 mg lutein, 1 mg zeaxanthin, 4 mg astaxanthin and an antioxidant supplement or did not receive any supplements. After 24 months, those receiving supplements had improved and stabilized visual acuity (p = 0.003), as well as improved contrast sensitivity at both 12 and 24 months (p = 0.001), compared to the non-supplemented group [81].

 

In the randomized, double masked, placebo controlled AREDS study, participants either received an antioxidant cocktail or placebo, Results indicated that supplementation with a cocktail of beta-carotene, vitamin E, vitamin C, zinc and copper reduced progression from intermediate to advanced AMD by 34% (95% CI: 0.47, 0.91) over about six years of follow-up [92,117,118] (Figure 37). Another clinical trial of 27 patients with early AMD showed that daily supplementation with 180 mg vitamin C, 30 mg vitamin E, 22.5 mg zinc, 1 mg copper, 10 mg lutein, 1 mg zeaxanthin and 4 mg astaxanthin improved function in the central retina as measured by electroretinogram (p < 0.01) (data not shown) [119].







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