4 replies to this topic

[Xagan]

Hi everyone,

 

I hope you don't mind me posting on here, but I often come across this forum when searching for information about supplements and herbs etc, and I feel you might be able to help me/offer some advice.

 

I feel like I'm on the edge of collapsing. I can barely cope. I can't even put into words how impaired I am at the minute. This has been a slow, gradual decline, over many months (since April), but it's slowly getting to a point where I literally feel like I will soon be in a psychiatric hospital. I don't know how I'm still going through the motions every day; even writing this is a massive effort that will put a strain on me. I'm a 24 year old (25 next month) guy by the way if that's relevant.

 

This kind of all started after my experience with psilocybin mushrooms, which can be found here:

 

http://the-nexian.me...o-hell-and-back

 

As you can see, I did gradually improve after the trip, but then one day in April 2016, things started to go in the opposite direction again; things started to slowly get worse. It started with an inability to sleep. Even now, some nights I barely sleep at all, but even if I do get some sleep, it's fragmented and I can honestly say that I never feel that I sleep deeply any more - I always feel like I'm in a dreamy state; always on the verge of being awake. I often have this irresistible urge to move and wriggle my feet/lower legs, especially if I've managed to grab a few hours of sleep. It's horrible. It doesn't even feel like medication would work. It's hard to explain - it feels like medication or sleep aids would merely sedate me, but not put me into a state of actual sleep. Obviously I don't know for sure, but something feels drastically wrong with my sleep.

 

My cognition has slowly got worse as well, and these days my memory is atrocious. I saw a neurologist the other week, and he said that there are mild abnormalities issues with my working memory and attention (although from my perspective the issues are severe and have got worse since I saw him), and I'm booked in to see a neuropsychologist early next month for a two hour assessment. I just can't explain how I feel. It's bizarre. It feels impossible. I would describe it as a mild form of thought disorder (as seen in schizophrenia). I can't control my thoughts, I go blank a lot, I can't maintain my attention on one thing and my thoughts always go from one thing to the next uncontrollably. I always go to start something, forget, then realise I was going to do it about an hour later. This is always happening with different things.

 

I'm also struggling massively with my speech. It's almost impossible to explain - it's like producing any speech requires ten times more effort, and whilst I'm speaking, I find it really difficult to plan my speech ahead, and I always get tongue-tied. When around people, I often just sit there in silence because the effort of speaking is just so great.

 

Up until recently, I've been able to hide my issues, but lately, even my relatives have been saying that I'm acting very 'distant' and that I sometimes don't finish my sentences (although with a lot of effort, I can just about avoid this). I'm so withdrawn as well of late. I can only cope with doing one thing a day, like if I go to work (which I'm just about able to do still), I can't do anything in the evening because I'm too mentally exhausted (yet still unable to sleep). My fear of developing schizophrenia actually seems to be turning true...

 

I know 100% what has caused my issues: stress. Before the mushroom trip and even after, I feel like I've 'fried' my brain with constant stress and various severely traumatic events. My poor brain has been hammered to within an inch of its life. The stress has taken its toll. Thankfully, I don't experience significant stress any more (except for the stress of what I'm going through), because I've finished university and I'm working part-time hours at a relatively easy job that I know well. In spite of this, I'm still slowly getting worse - it's like the damage is already done and my decline is inevitable.

 

I've been supplementing with NAC since about January 2015 (so before the mushroom trip) - 600mg twice a day up until April 2016 (when I started getting worse again). I started supplementing with NAC after I developed rosacea (which is now almost non-existent since living healthily). In April 2016, I upped the dose of NAC to 1000mg twice a day, as well as adding 1000mg twice a day of sarcosine. I've read that NAC and sarcosine are both used in the treatment of schizophrenia, and both are effective in alleviating schizophrenia symptoms. I thought I'd start sarcosine and increase the NAC because it honestly does (and did) feel like I'm experiencing an emerging psychosis. I also supplement with fish oil capsules, 400mg per day of coenzyme q10 and I take a vitamin B complex.

 

Does anyone think that the NAC/sarcosine could be contributing? It's a catch 22 situation, because if the NAC and sarcosine are actually preventing a complete collapse, then stopping them or lowering the dose would be a bad idea. I found an anecdotal report online of a schizophrenia sufferer who says that supplementing with sarcosine stops them from relapsing into psychosis - I think it was on a thread on Longecity actually.

 

On the other hand, if the supplements are causing the issues, then obviously that needs to be dealt with. I don't know who to consult with about this. I have my neuropsychological appointment next month, but I wouldn't expect them to know the mechanisms of action and potential long-term effects of every single substance, especially sarcosine as it's not very well known. I basically want the NAC/sarcosine situation to be sorted so that I can then think about adding in other herbs/therapies; I don't want to start adding stuff if the cause is actually something that needs to be taken away. I'm very anxious about stopping the supplements after how I felt the last time I stopped taking NAC, and that was when I was solely on 600mg of NAC twice a day without any sarcosine.

 

I'm not experiencing any hallucinations or delusions at all (although I do remember getting strangely paranoid when I ran out of NAC late in 2015 and went a day without it, which ended when I started the NAC again the following day) - my symptoms are mainly thought related. It feels like I'm developing hebephrenic schizophrenia, which worries me because I've read online that hebephrenia seems to be different in pathology to paranoid schizophrenia; it is more of a traumatic insanity and its symptoms are probably caused by brain degeneration, as opposed to deficiencies in the dopamine system.

 

I'm eating healthily, I'm exercising, I'm leading a relatively stress-free life and am just about clinging on to being able to participate in hobbies (horse riding once a week), but I feel like I'm on the verge of insanity. I can't go on any longer. I'm just becoming so mentally impaired and I can't control my attention - it's like there's a horrible feeling of tension as well. I'm also unable to deal with stress in any form; it's like a complete inability to deal with stress.

 

I feel like my supplements are either holding me together and that I would literally have a nervous breakdown if I stop them, or that they're actually causing my issues. To be honest, I can't find any reports of similar experiences online, and they're both very safe supplements it seems, so my issues seem too severe for the supplements to be the cause. I would feel very fearful of stopping them to be honest. On that note, I've been considering consuming lion's mane mushroom, but then again, I don't want to keep pumping substances into my body. I just don't know what to do. I feel like I'm on a knife-edge.

 

If this continues, I'm not going to cope. I'm not depressed or anything at all. Quite the contrary; I'm almost in that state of mind all the time where I feel excessively sleep deprived. I feel wired in a sense. I would describe it as a complete mindset shift from one moment to the next. It is almost impossible to describe, but it's now getting to the point where it's massively impacting my functioning in life.

 

Oh I feel like I'm in such a pickle, but at the same time, at least I can find hope in the fact that if the supplements are causing my issues, then there's no underlying pathology and hopefully I'll feel better when I discontinue them. Or if they're actually helping, then I'm actually doing the right thing by taking them.

On a completely separate note, I've had mild chest discomfort every morning when I wake up now for about a year. It's only mild, which is why I've never had it checked up on, but thinking about it, maybe I should have investigated it. It just feels like I've got a mildly sore chest. I do also get sore throats quite often as well. It's probably got something to do with the NAC, because NAC is a mucolytic - I have a runny nose most evenings too. On top of all of this, I suffer with recurrent tinnitus, and have done for a few years. It comes and goes but when it's present, it's a loud ringing in my ears with accompanying head pressure (it makes sleep very difficult).

 

I'm so sorry for the rambling message. Any advice would be much appreciated, and I'll drop messages in here with any updates. I'm already booked in to see the neuropsychologist, but if anyone here can offer any input, I would be very grateful. I just pray that I can get out of this situation, but I fear that I've irreversibly damaged my brain with all the stress I've experienced.

 

Thank you all

[sthira]

I'm sorry for your troubles. The brain is a very powerful organ, as you know, and we can use it to talk ourselves into and out of extreme discomfort. I read your mushroom trip experience, and since I have some experience in this exploratory realm, I thought I'd comment. Mushrooms can take you far away indeed, as you've written, and they're definitely not for everyone: no judgements here, just saying people with potentially borderline schizophrenic tendencies can push themselves further than they'd intended. Not saying you're schizophrenic -- checking in with a pdoc is a good idea.

If at all possible, try and try again tomorrow and the next days ahead to keep your head up and focus on the positive, as you've eloquently written here: "...Dare I say it, I’m tempted to even say that in the long run, my experience with mushrooms has ended up being immensely positive, because I have finally made the changes that I always longed for and I appreciate every day of living more than ever...."

Focus more on a healthy diet than continued supplement experiments like NAC et al, focus on strong outdoor exercise, like hiking in the wonders of the natural world -- beautiful sunrises and sunsets, clean air, trees, maybe get a friendly dog if you're able. Hike with a dog -- it's great for your battered soul. Maybe try to use your harrowing experiences with this powerful drug to develop more empathy and compassion for other people, animals, trees, and plants. The true, most enduring lesson I've found through intermittent dosing with mushrooms is that nature is beautiful, and we're all part of a vast, interconnected ecosystem.

A non-druggy way to further improve your life would be the adoption of a regular seated meditation practice, learn some breathing techniques to keep you cool under pressure, and some yoga to strengthen your body.

Edited by sthira, 08 February 2017 - 05:31 PM.

[jack black]

Couple of random thoughts.
1. Sleep issue, could it be restless leg syndrome? There are treatments for that.
2. Stress causing burnout and depression. Been there. Look into things that are known to regenerate killed neurons: lithium and substances boosting NDGF.
3. In my experience, gluten/wheat in diet makes stress worse in susceptible persons. Eliminate them for a couple of weeks.
4. Don't know much about psylocibin, but will read your story.

Edit: why were you concerned about your mental health before the trip?

Edited by jack black, 08 February 2017 - 08:23 PM.

[sant2060]

Hey man, sorry to hear you are going through this shit, hang in there!

 

Have you tried to take something to calm you down? I'm asking, because I had veeeeery similar reaction to stress, and for me all the horror I was going through was fear and anxiety based. I was 100% sure I'm going insane :D

 

Clonazepam finally fixed that part of hell. 

 

I wasn't and I'm not taking it regulary...for me, even 1/4 of 0.5 mg was enough to calm me down, and when I saw I CAN be calmed down, that greately diminished my fears of going insane, having heart attack, dying from bird flu, or whatever huge fear and anxiety I had at that point of life, all thanx to huge stress I was enduring 15 years before crash.

And it helped with cognitive issues, because you can't function properly when you are so tense and filled with fear.

 

Now I'm taking it like few times per year...I just always have 0.5mg in my pocket, and just having it in my pocket calms me down :D

 

Unfortunatelly, I found out about it some 5 years into my suffering, went through xanax and SSRI's in meantime, which a) didn't work b) combined with constant anxiety left me with dysthymia and anhedonia.

 

For those two I tried Sarcosine and NAC, and they did have a bit paradoxical effect on me, made me a bit more anxious, aggitated, couldn't sleep etc.

 

Anyhow, try to relax, I'm sure you are in good hands, and trained neuropsychologist will know how to help you much more than us here  

 

 

[Xagan]

I'm sorry for your troubles. The brain is a very powerful organ, as you know, and we can use it to talk ourselves into and out of extreme discomfort. I read your mushroom trip experience, and since I have some experience in this exploratory realm, I thought I'd comment. Mushrooms can take you far away indeed, as you've written, and they're definitely not for everyone: no judgements here, just saying people with potentially borderline schizophrenic tendencies can push themselves further than they'd intended. Not saying you're schizophrenic -- checking in with a pdoc is a good idea.

If at all possible, try and try again tomorrow and the next days ahead to keep your head up and focus on the positive, as you've eloquently written here: "...Dare I say it, I’m tempted to even say that in the long run, my experience with mushrooms has ended up being immensely positive, because I have finally made the changes that I always longed for and I appreciate every day of living more than ever...."

Focus more on a healthy diet than continued supplement experiments like NAC et al, focus on strong outdoor exercise, like hiking in the wonders of the natural world -- beautiful sunrises and sunsets, clean air, trees, maybe get a friendly dog if you're able. Hike with a dog -- it's great for your battered soul. Maybe try to use your harrowing experiences with this powerful drug to develop more empathy and compassion for other people, animals, trees, and plants. The true, most enduring lesson I've found through intermittent dosing with mushrooms is that nature is beautiful, and we're all part of a vast, interconnected ecosystem.

A non-druggy way to further improve your life would be the adoption of a regular seated meditation practice, learn some breathing techniques to keep you cool under pressure, and some yoga to strengthen your body.

 

sthira, thank you so much for your reply - I really appreciate it. That's very true: spending time in nature is essential, and it's probably something I should do more. I do walk my dog every day, but otherwise I'm pretty much glued to my phone, so this is something I need to change. Having a stronger connection with nature would really help me. Thank you again

 

Couple of random thoughts.
1. Sleep issue, could it be restless leg syndrome? There are treatments for that.
2. Stress causing burnout and depression. Been there. Look into things that are known to regenerate killed neurons: lithium and substances boosting NDGF.
3. In my experience, gluten/wheat in diet makes stress worse in susceptible persons. Eliminate them for a couple of weeks.
4. Don't know much about psylocibin, but will read your story.

Edit: why were you concerned about your mental health before the trip?

 

Hi jack black, well I guess it could be restless leg syndrome - I'll certainly bring it up when I go to the docs again. I have definitely made all of the lifestyle changes that are meant to help with RLS but I do still often have the urge to wriggle my feet, particularly in the mornings (it's not an issue when I go to sleep at night). And with regards to the stress and burnout etc, would the substances boosting NDGF include lion's mane mushroom? That's definitely something I'm considering...

And I am already eating gluten free at the moment - I have been for almost two months. My diet is already quite healthy, but I could certainly cut out wheat entirely, so that's another change I can make for sure - I can cut out the gluten free wheat products for more natural foods.

And it's a complex one about my mental health before the trip; I would describe myself being in a state of complete and utter burnout even before the bad trip, but without actual cognitive issues such as an inability to focus on one thing or terrible memory. In about December 2013, I developed vascular rosacea, and it completely turned my life around. It was like my life hit a sudden train-wreck. I tried to hide it from everyone. I couldn't accept it. I had a kind of mental breakdown with regards to obsessing about quickly getting rid of it and exhaustion. That's the reason I even moved away to university: I wanted to escape. Well anyway, after making major lifestyle changes, the rosacea was improved to an almost non-existent state (and still is), but it took a massive toll on my mental health.

Before the mushroom trip, I was always exhausted - always tired. I would dose up on coffee once a week just so I had that wonderful feeling of energy, then I'd spend the remaining 6 days recovering and in a state of lethargy. I found it so incredibly hard to focus. The fatigue was horrible. My brain clearly wasn't ready for an intense trip (it's also worth noting that I was eating a lot of meat and green vegetables at this point in a bid to keep my rosacea at bay). To be honest, I'm finding it difficult to pinpoint exactly what my issues were back then, because so much has happened to me since then and now, and my cognitive decline since then has been massive, but I do remember having issues; it just felt like my body was giving up on me, because it was extreme stress earlier in my life that even led up to the rosacea and fatigue etc...

Thanks for your input jack black by the way - I appreciate your interest I'm determined to get over this, even though at times it feels impossible.

 

Hey man, sorry to hear you are going through this shit, hang in there!

 

Have you tried to take something to calm you down? I'm asking, because I had veeeeery similar reaction to stress, and for me all the horror I was going through was fear and anxiety based. I was 100% sure I'm going insane :D

 

Clonazepam finally fixed that part of hell. 

 

I wasn't and I'm not taking it regulary...for me, even 1/4 of 0.5 mg was enough to calm me down, and when I saw I CAN be calmed down, that greately diminished my fears of going insane, having heart attack, dying from bird flu, or whatever huge fear and anxiety I had at that point of life, all thanx to huge stress I was enduring 15 years before crash.

And it helped with cognitive issues, because you can't function properly when you are so tense and filled with fear.

 

Now I'm taking it like few times per year...I just always have 0.5mg in my pocket, and just having it in my pocket calms me down :D

 

Unfortunatelly, I found out about it some 5 years into my suffering, went through xanax and SSRI's in meantime, which a) didn't work b) combined with constant anxiety left me with dysthymia and anhedonia.

 

For those two I tried Sarcosine and NAC, and they did have a bit paradoxical effect on me, made me a bit more anxious, aggitated, couldn't sleep etc.

 

Anyhow, try to relax, I'm sure you are in good hands, and trained neuropsychologist will know how to help you much more than us here  

 

Hi sant2060, thanks so much for the suggestion - I've noted down Clonazepam and officially added it to my list of things to investigate Maybe it will take something from the docs to help me out and put a lid on things. To be honest, it does feel like I'm going to need something that will actually help me with the cognitive side of things at the minute, but thank you for reminding me of an alternative route; it's always nice to consider other options.
 

 

I've been feeling weird these last few days: I've been feeling distant from my mind, numb and suffering with an extreme lack of motivation to do basically anything. I actually felt a lot better today, but by the time this evening arrived, I was massively struggling to carry out my usual evening routine. My thoughts just kept on going from one thing to the next almost uncontrollably - I just kept pausing and getting lost in the train of thoughts. I would bring myself back to what I was doing, then after a few minutes, I'd realise that I went on a mental tangent again. Outwardly, none of this is really evident to others, except for the fact that I'm just so darn quiet of late and I hardly initiate talking because it takes so much effort. Anyway, I won't go on about what I'm experiencing too much, because I could describe it in a hundred different ways from day to day.

I still feel like I'm in a pickle regarding the NAC and sarcosine. I've been taking them for so long now that I feel trapped on them. Could they be causing my issues? Because of how I felt the last time I stopped NAC, and because my symptoms seem to match the prodrome of schizophrenia, I wouldn't dare stop taking them to be honest. At the same time, if they're contributing at all, I wouldn't want to start taking anything else on top of them. I mean, I'm on the verge of wanting to start taking lion's mane mushroom because of it's NGF (which I'm guessing is the same as NDGF) boosting properties, but would it be safe to add that when already taking 1000mg twice a day of both NAC and sarcosine and in this state? Could lion's mane just add to it and make things worse?

I'm so sorry for all the questions but I really don't know which way to turn. I need to figure this out...

Edited by Xagan, 09 February 2017 - 09:57 PM.