74 replies to this topic

[mccoy]

The Schroeter et al. article gives some details on the estimated amount of PAs ingested by the Kunas:

 

–)-Epicatechin mediates beneficial effects of flavanol-rich cocoa on vascular function in humans

 

 

 

Flavanol Consumption in Kuna Indians. As an initial test of whether or not the chronic consumption of a high-flavanol diet is associated with a persistent augmentation of NO-production, we studied two genetically closely related populations of Kuna Indians. Indigenous Kuna Indians, who live in the San Blas islands off the coast of Panama, represent a very propitious study population because they have only minimal increases in blood pressure with age, and hypertension and other CVDs are rare. The factors involved are primarily environmental, rather than genetic, because this protection is lost upon migration to mainland Panama City (25). One contributing factor seems to be dietary because the Kuna living on San Blas customarily consume large amounts of flavanol-rich cocoa (26). In the current study, urine samples collected from a subset of individuals, who were partaking in a larger study aimed at investigating diet-blood pressure correlations in the Kuna (27), were analyzed for flavanol metabolites and nitrite+nitrate concentrations. All volunteers partaking in this study where matched for age, gender, and weight. Island-dwelling Kuna consumed an average of 3–4 cups of cocoa per day. Those living on the mainland consumed on average <4 cups per week. The cocoa powder used on the island contained 0.196 g of total procyanidins per g (33). Reasonably assuming that the cocoa beverage contained an average of 10 g of cocoa powder per 100 ml of fluid, and defining the average volume of a cup to be 100 ml, the typical daily procyanidin intake on the island was in the range of 600–900 mg. Consistent with the above estimates, urinary levels of flavanol metabolites, expressed as epicatechin equivalents, are more than six times higher in island dwellers than in mainland inhabitants (Fig. 4, which is published as supporting information on the PNAS web site). Although the dietary records predicted a higher urinary nitrate+nitrite level in mainland inhabitants as compared with island dwellers, the sum of urinary nitrite+nitrate levels in island dwellers (n = 16) is more than twice that of Kuna living on the mainland (n = 18) (Fig. 4).

 

Now, the above 0.196 g value should be actually 0.0196 g, or 20 mg, to yield a total of 600-900 mg (10 grams of cacao powder each 100 ml cup, 3-4 cups per day).

Going back to the USDA Database for the Proanthocyanidin Content of Selected Foods, Release 2 – 2015, assuming that the procyanidins are the same as proanthocyanidins (they are condensed tannins), polymers from 2 to n molecules of catechins, we have 4251 mg per 100 g of unprocessed cacao powder on the average.

 

According to the above, 900 mg of procyanidins-proanthocyanidins are found in about 20 grams of undutched, average cacao powder.

 

Now, i'm not sure whether procyanidins=proanthocyanidins, and am not sure that the Scrhoeter et al estimates are very rigorous.

 

But even allowing for 50% the amounts, we are in the region of 40 grams of cacao powder, as previously stated.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by mccoy, 20 March 2017 - 11:15 PM.

[aconita]

The Kuna ingest 30-40g unprocessed cacao powder (like the El Ceibo) a day, which makes for about 50 cents/day, not super cheap but feasible.

[normalizing]

interesting, thanks for the research. just one thing unanswered for me,  how do they consume the unprocessed cacao powder? do they make it as hot beverage and mix it with hot water or do they consume it as food ingredient, maybe mixed with their food?

[aconita]

They drink it as a beverage, cacao powder is soluble in cold water too, just stir a bit.

[normalizing]

any clues to good quality criollo bean chocolate? after reading this;Theophylline is naturally found in cocoa beans. Amounts as high as 3.7 mg/g have been reported in Criollo cocoa beans

[orion602]

Anyone using raw cocoa beans? Im wondering what else can be done with it apart from eating as it is.

I bought 2 kilos of these this week (one kg is Forastero from Ecuador and second some unknown variety from Peru)

 

In reality it looks a bit worse than on the picture and the smell of fermented cocoa beans is soury, not exactly cacao-like. But when i peel it, it looks nice and Im starting to like its taste.

Edited by orion602, 31 March 2017 - 05:49 PM.

[mccoy]

You might try and brew your own cacao drink grinding those beans. Unfortunately where I live they are darn costly. The soury smell and taste probably means that the condensed tannins (proanthocyanines) are abundant there, so it's a positive sign.

[normalizing]

the incas or was it the aztecs? brew the cacao beans with hot chilli peppers and other weird shit, so it tasted really bitter hot and spicy, no milk or any sugar. now thats a hardcore drink but i have to find the recipe :/

[orion602]

yeah. it cost me about $20 per kilo, so its not something i can afford to eat in large amounts. Although it would be quite easy to eat more than 100g every day.

its not as bitter as processed cacao powder, but I got used to bitter taste.

hmm, with some spices, i can try , but cant imagine chewing it with hot chili pepper :D

[mccoy]

the incas or was it the aztecs? brew the cacao beans with hot chilli peppers and other weird shit, so it tasted really bitter hot and spicy, no milk or any sugar. now thats a hardcore drink but i have to find the recipe :/

 

I remember reading some original pre colombians chocolate drinks, many years ago and posted it in a forum. The recipe is probably not replicable now, since it contained many local spices and flavours, it was cold and frothy, yes with hot chile, must try and retrieve it if I can

Edited by mccoy, 06 April 2017 - 01:18 PM.

[mccoy]

OK, I found the forum and a thread I started over 10 years ago, this is the advantage of posting whastoever may seem interesting at the moment, unless the forum closes up it's available at your fingertips.

 

About drinking chocolate
According to the food historians, the Ancient Aztecs used many substances to flavor their chocolate drink. In fact? Drinking chocolate without adding flavorings, spices and other additions was almost unheard of. One of the most popular additions was powdered chilli (Capsicum annum). Maize was sometimes added as filler. Flowers were popular flavorings. There were were several, including chili! Chocolate was generally consumed cool, not hot like we Americans do today. 

"Among the more well-known spices were chenopodium, coriander and sage. Vanilla, extracted from the pods of a species of orchid, was among the most esteemed flavorings. Chocolate was prepared by grinding roasted cacao beans, sometimes with parched corn, and them mixing the powder with vanilla orchid pods or sweetened with honey. Like tea and coffee, this beverage is rich in caffeine and was much prized in ancient Mesoamerica."
---The Aztecs, Townsend (p. 173) 

"Universally popular throughout Mesoamerica was the addition to the drink [chocolate] of chilli (Capsicum annum), dried and ground to a powder. The molina vocabular calls the drink chilacacahuatl; of coruse, given the extraoadinary array of chillis grown in Mexico, it could have been anywhere from mildly pungent to extremely hot...Sahagun's native informants gave him a mneu of choclate drinks served to the ruler...'Then by himself in his house, his chocolate was served: green cacao-pods, honeyed chocolate, flowered chocoalte, flavored with green vanilla, bright red chocolate, huitztexcolli-flower chocolate, flower-colored chocolate, black chocoalte, white chocolate"...Fransico Hernandez gives us a chocolate recipe...What is interesting about Hernandez's recipe is that it contains three flavorings which we know were highly prized by the Aztecs. Th first is hueinacaztli, the thick, ear-shaped petal of the flower of Cymbopetalum pendulifolorum, a tree of the Annonaceae or custard-apple family, which grows in the tropical lowland forests of Veracruz, Oazaca, and Chiapas; this was one of the most valued products brought back by the pochtexa merchants from the expeditions. It is a confusing plant, because it has a least three Nahuatl names: it may be calle dhueinacaztli ("great ear"), teonacaztli ("divine ear"), or xochinacaztli ("flowry ear"). The distinguising feature is the ending nacaztli, meaning "ear."...Be that is at may, Cymbopetalum penduliflorum was the premier chocolate flavor among the Aztecs...What did this flower taste like, once it have been turned into powder and added to the fine cacao? Sahagun as usual cautions against taking too much of it, warning that excess could lead to drunkenness...The second of Hernandez's reputedly aphrodesiac trio was tlilxochitl ("black flower"), none other than our familiar vanillla (Vanilla planifolia). In contradcition to his Nahuatl name, the vanilla flower is acutally greenish yellow; the plant is a climbing orchid, and it is the pod that is black...The last in Hernandez's trio of chocolate flavorings is mecaxochitl ("string flower"). This is a member of the genus Piper, probably Piper sanctum, and therefore actually related to black pepper. The flowers, said to be white by some and black by others, are tiny and packed on to an inflorescence. According to Hernandez, "taken with cachuatl [cacao] it gives an agreeable taste, is tonic, warms the stomach, perfumes the breath...combats poisons, [and] alleviates intestinal pains and colics." ...This by no means completes the inventory of Aztec chocolate flavorings. Two varieties of Magnolia mexicana could be added, although drying the flowers causes them to lose their fragrance while at the same time ratining their astringency. The flowers are shaped like a heart, hence the Nahuatl name yolloxochitl ("heart flower")...The "heart flower" tree, like the rest of the Magnolia family and genus, contains alkaloids; if the seeds and flowers of Magnolia mexicana are cooked in water and administered to a patient, they are supposed to augment the pulse and regularize the heartbeat, but an overdose causes arrhythmia...Izquixochitl ("popcorn flower") can be any one of several species of Bourreria in the borage family...Sahagun directs us to use it in chilled chocolate." ---True History of Chocolate, Sophie D. Coe and Michael D. Coe [Thames and Hudson:New York] 1996 (p. 89-92) 

How was the chocolate drink made?
"The basic Aztec method of preparing chocolate...was about the same as that prevalent among the Maya; the only real difference is that it seems to have been drunk cool rather than hot as seems to have been the case among the Maya of Yucatan. One of the earliest notices of this drink is by the hand of a man known to scholars as the Anonymous Conqueror, described as "a gentleman of Hernan Cortez," whos description of Tenochtitlan was published in Venice in 1556: These seeds which are called almonds or cacao are ground and made into powder, and other small seeds are ground, and this powder is put into certain basins with a point... and then they put water on it and mix it with a spoon. And after having mixed it very well, they change it from one basin to another, so that a foam is raised which they put in a vessel made for the purpose. And when they wish to drink it, they mix it with certain small spoons of gold or silver or wood, and drink it, and drinking it one must open one's mouth, because being foam one must give it room to subside, and go down bit by bit. This drink is the healthiest thing, and the greatest sustenance of anything you could drink in the world, because he who drinks a cup of this liquid, no matter how far he walks, can go a whole day without eating anything else.' To this encomium the Anonymous Conqueror adds the comment that "it is better in hot weather than in cool, being cold is its nature...According to Sahagun's native informants, fine chocolate was called tlaquetzalli ("precious thing"), and was prepared by the seller in this way: She grinds cacao [beans]; she crushes, breaks, pulverizes them. She chooses, selects, separates them. She drenches, soaks, steeps them. She adds water sparingly, conservativley; aerates it, filters it, strains it, pours it back and forth, aerates it; she makes it form a head, makes foam; she removes the head, makes it thicken, makes it dry, pours water in, stirs water into it.' The inferior product, the informatns tell us, was mixed with nixtuamalli and water--in other words, a chocolate-with-maize gruel drink...There is no mention in these primary sources of the grooved wooden beater or swizzle stick (Spanish molinillo) for the production of the much-prized foam, nor does any word for it appear in the first Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary, that of Alonso de Molina, published in Mexico City in 1571. This item, so important later on in chocolate preparation in America and Europe, must have been introduced from Spain during the 16th century. By the time the Jesuit Francesco Saverio Clavigero published his detailed report on native Mexican live and hsitory (in 1780, in Italian), he describes the use of the molinillo, but totally omits the pouring from one vessel to another to produce a good head on the drink...There is, however, ample mention of stirrers or stirring spoons. These were fashioned from tortoise or sea turtle shell. Some of these survived the Conquest, for among the confiscated goods of two Aztec sorcerers arested by the early Spanish Inquisition were many of these stirrers, along with cacao and the cups from wich chocolate was drunk. Which brings us to the cups themselves. A reading of our sources indicates that these were small, hemispherical bowls which could be of polychrome creamic; calabash gourd...painted or lacquered with designs; and even gold, in the case of the huei tlatoani."
---True History of Chocolate, Sophie D. Coe and Michael D. Coe [Thames & Hudson:London] 1996 (p. 86-88)
[NOTE: This book contains far more information than can be paraphrased here. It also includes notes on the use of chocolate in Mayan civization.] 

 

 

[normalizing]

nobody seems interested in trying this??

[mccoy]

Cymbopetalum penduliflorum sounds like a good flavouring for chocolate!! 

 

Che chilacacahuatl (chocolate with chile) might have been just mildly hot, since like explained in the excerpt, there were so many chile varieties in south America and of such a varied degree of pungency.

[TheFountain]

Didn't read the article, how did Trader Joe's Dark chocolate score? 85% cocoa. 

 

Anyway, been eating Dark Chocolate for years now, lately i've been getting more anxiety from it than normal, I do think there's a cut off point between an amount that grants you energy and good vibes and an amount that may cause some Anxiety. 

 

I just don't know how to measure that point though.

[normalizing]

yeah it can act like very mild amphetamine in high quantity, good for ADHD but it will cause anxiety eventually. so similar in that regard

 

i dunno what does Cymbopetalum penduliflorum do to the mix, but i do know these people had a good idea mixing chilli peppers with cocoa. both have good vasodilators meaning, natural viagra. those indians knew how to keep their erections