47 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

 

But isn't uv radiation absolutely necessary to make the cholesterol sulfate? Otherwise I don't get it.. because eating eggs feels nothing like a uv-b lamp. And I've eaten a lot of eggs (again, it may be egg intolerance, not sure)

 

 

 

 

It seems so, and you have to wonder if the popularity of eggs for breakfast has anything to do with it.

[RWhigham]

Post #4  PeaceAndProsperity  "What I'm more after is cholesterol sulfate, which is what causes us to feel good from sun exposure (it's not vitamin D, tested it again and again). Can you supplement cholesterol sulfate? Where would you buy it?"

 

Are you sure you tried a large enough amount of vitamin D3?  What was the largest dose of vit-D3 that you tried?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Post #4  PeaceAndProsperity  "What I'm more after is cholesterol sulfate, which is what causes us to feel good from sun exposure (it's not vitamin D, tested it again and again). Can you supplement cholesterol sulfate? Where would you buy it?"

 

Are you sure you tried a large enough amount of vitamin D3?  What was the largest dose of vit-D3 that you tried?

20,000 iu. TRUST ME it's not vitamin D, it's a stupid myth based on lack of understanding that you need sunlight for a crap load of more things, including neurotransmitter production.

 

The thing with my sun lamp is that it raises testosterone quite considerably, as well as estrogen, and causes increased energy and better mood. I can't make sense out of this other than it being due to cholesterol sulfate

 

[RWhigham]

 

20,000 iu. TRUST ME it's not vitamin D, it's a stupid myth based on lack of understanding that you need sunlight for a crap load of more things, including neurotransmitter production.

 

The thing with my sun lamp is that it raises testosterone quite considerably, as well as estrogen, and causes increased energy and better mood. I can't make sense out of this other than it being due to cholesterol sulfate

 

Trust me? Not a valid argument. Have you had your vitamin d plasma level checked? How long did you try 20,000 IU?

 

Your hypothesis is clearly based on

(1) Comparing the positive effects of your sunlamp to the null effect of 20,000 IU of vitamin D

(2) The cholesterol sulfate hypothesis promulgated by Stephanie Seneff from MIT's "Computer Science And Artificial Intelligence Laboratory"

Seneff's hypothesis has been widely disseminated via the internet.

(Many believe the cholesterol-reduction hypothesis is like "modern blood-letting" (Niner) and are open to alternatives)

 

In your case I'm not convinced. 

You may have a sulphur deficiency and/or a vitamin d deficiency. You sunlamp can treat either

 

The sun normally makes a lot more precursor for vitamin d than is needed. One's skin regulates the dose.

Perhaps your skin  is absorbing more precursor and making more vitamin d than you think.

Some people have found a "nootropic" effect at 50,000 IU.

    

 

[RWhigham]

(Many believe the cholesterol-reduction hypothesis is like "modern blood-letting" (Niner) and are open to alternatives)

Oops  "modern bloodletting" was Turnbuckle, not Niner.

 

The sun normally makes a lot more precursor for vitamin d than is needed. One's skin regulates the dose.

The "precursor" molecule in this context is D3 which is created from sunlight and 7-dehydrocholesterol, the precursor for D3.

Vitamin d in this context is 25-hydroxycholecalciferol, the active form, and that which is measured in plasma.

 

D3 is absorbed through the skin as needed. Much can remain on the skin and be lost since absorption is regulated.

D3 is converted by the liver and kidneys to 25-hydroxycholecalciferol. 

Edited by RWhigham, 28 March 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[RWhigham]

duplicate (deleted) 

 

Edited by RWhigham, 28 March 2017 - 07:04 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Trust me? Not a valid argument. Have you had your vitamin d plasma level checked? How long did you try 20,000 IU?

 

Your hypothesis is clearly based on

(1) Comparing the positive effects of your sunlamp to the null effect of 20,000 IU of vitamin D

(2) The cholesterol sulfate hypothesis promulgated by Stephanie Seneff from MIT's "Computer Science And Artificial Intelligence Laboratory"

Seneff's hypothesis has been widely disseminated via the internet.

(Many believe the cholesterol-reduction hypothesis is like "modern blood-letting" (Niner) and are open to alternatives)

 

In your case I'm not convinced. 

You may have a sulphur deficiency and/or a vitamin d deficiency. You sunlamp can treat either

 

The sun normally makes a lot more precursor for vitamin d than is needed. One's skin regulates the dose.

Perhaps your skin  is absorbing more precursor and making more vitamin d than you think.

Some people have found a "nootropic" effect at 50,000 IU.

    

 

Nothing is a valid argument for Internet critics. You could make a sound deductive argument but it wouldn't be valid. What does valid even mean to you? Citation needed. Do you have any proof for that claim? Reference needed. bla bla bla

 

I am very sensitive to serotonin. Most supplements give me the most extreme fatigue coupled with irritability, and this is presumably due to 5ht2a activation (a manifestation of hyperserotonemia).

With vitamin D3 I get irritable and fatigued just like other things that interact with serotonin, because I'm so sensitive. With a UV-B sun lamp I don't seem to feel the same effects of vitamin D3 supplementation but I feel better than I normally do, mood, energy and libido wise. 

 

But that's not enough "validity" for you. So let me add further to it. I cover my eyes fully so I can't see anything during sun lamp usage, and I make sure I do it right - because I'm scared of damaging my already bad eyes. This should prevent the lamp having effect on dopamine synthesis from eye exposure (maybe there's another pathway I don't know).

 

Please explain to me why vitamin D3 would need to take longer to work (and I HAVE taken high dosages for many days) when a sun lamp works instantly, assuming as you do that the sun lamp works its magic via increasing vitamin D3? What the heck is the difference if all that happens is a molecule is made? Does sunlight "activate" this molecule or prevent its fatty tissue storage so more is circulating in the blood? Come on, it makes no sense.

 

Furthermore, I can take vitamin D3 AFTER using the sunlamp and if I take enough vitamin D3 then I can feel its effects on me while also feeling the effects of the sun lamp.

 

So, something is definitely happening that's not only vitamin D bla bla bla. Now I just took msm and did the sun lamp treatment though for a few minutes only to prevent a nasty sunburn. The msm should "donate" sulfur to my knowledge and so if it were a matter of cholesterol sulfate you'd expect an increased effect of the sun lamp. But I don't know if I experience an increased effect, I don't think I do.

 

So maybe It's not cholesterol sulfate, I just can't see what could have such a large variety of effects on hormones, mood, etc.

I'm still interested in cholesterol supplementation though.

And no I am not attacking you or anything just as I assume you are not attacking me. I need to clarify this for the overly sensitive forum users.
 

 

 

Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 29 March 2017 - 01:34 PM.

[RWhigham]

OK, nice post.  Clearly something unknown is happening with the sunlamp.

You really should check your plasma levels of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol.

 

Most people convert supplemental D3 to plasma 25-hydroxycholecalciferol primarily in the kidneys.

The conversion in the liver mostly stays in the liver and may have little effect on plasma levels.

Sunlight converts D3 in the skin to other things including 25-hydroxycholecalciferol or precursors.

 

If your kidneys don't make the conversion, you may be dependant on the conversion of D3 in/on skin cells.

We think of  25-hydroxycholecalciferol as the "active" D, but that doesn't mean D3 itself is inactive.

D3 and 25-hydroxycholecalciferol may complement each other which could explain why you feel the D3 only after using the sunlamp.

 

Perhaps a vitamin D3 dermal application would reduce the amount of sunlamp exposure you need.

Edited by RWhigham, 29 March 2017 - 04:50 PM.

[RWhigham]

http://articles.merc...ol-sulfate.aspx   Dr. Mercola interviews Dr. Seneff about cholesterol sulfate.

 

http://mercola.fileb...rol-Sulfate.pdf  Interview transcript.

Edited by RWhigham, 30 March 2017 - 05:21 PM.

[Ovidus]

 

 

 

I used 3 grams a day for about 25 years, and had no problem with it other than the acidity and the occasional flushing that had people asking me if I had a sunburn. I wasn't aging much at all until someone convinced me that it caused liver damage. So I stopped, and began to age rapidly as a result (which I only saw in retrospect). 

 

 

 

Hold on a second?!?!?!

 

Turnbuckle says something like that and people barely react to it??? I seriously think that the posters here are brain dead. If this was coming from a guy with 2 posts ever, having registered on the site a week ago, I wold brush it aside, thinking that soon a hidden advertisement for a miracle product is going to show up. However, I have been following Turnbuckle for a while, and he certainly comes across as a well-read, knowledgeable and meticulous guy. He is making an enormous statement here; so much to elaborate on and ask questions about. Sir, can you please share the following:

 

- between what ages did you take it?

 

- almost 30 years ago, what was it that prompted you to take such a high dose? was it, even back then, suspected to play a role in aging? I doubt it...

 

- what else were you doing during the period and how and to what extent are you able to attribute the lack of aging to niacin?

 

- can you please elaborate a bit on "not aging much at all"? Was it all aspects of aging that seemed to have been arrested (such as graying of hair, skin characteristics, mental capacity, reaction time, muscle tone.....)?

 

- in the end do you think that even at 3 grams it isn't liver toxic?

 

I know NAD and the connected items such as the more basic niacin are being talked about extensively here these days, but this absolutely deserves special attention.

 

thanks a ton

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

 

I used 3 grams a day for about 25 years, and had no problem with it other than the acidity and the occasional flushing that had people asking me if I had a sunburn. I wasn't aging much at all until someone convinced me that it caused liver damage. So I stopped, and began to age rapidly as a result (which I only saw in retrospect). 

 

 

 

Hold on a second?!?!?!

 

Turnbuckle says something like that and people barely react to it??? I seriously think that the posters here are brain dead. If this was coming from a guy with 2 posts ever, having registered on the site a week ago, I wold brush it aside, thinking that soon a hidden advertisement for a miracle product is going to show up. However, I have been following Turnbuckle for a while, and he certainly comes across as a well-read, knowledgeable and meticulous guy. He is making an enormous statement here; so much to elaborate on and ask questions about. Sir, can you please share the following:

 

- between what ages did you take it?

 

- almost 30 years ago, what was it that prompted you to take such a high dose? was it, even back then, suspected to play a role in aging? I doubt it...

 

- what else were you doing during the period and how and to what extent are you able to attribute the lack of aging to niacin?

 

- can you please elaborate a bit on "not aging much at all"? Was it all aspects of aging that seemed to have been arrested (such as graying of hair, skin characteristics, mental capacity, reaction time, muscle tone.....)?

 

- in the end do you think that even at 3 grams it isn't liver toxic?

 

I know NAD and the connected items such as the more basic niacin are being talked about extensively here these days, but this absolutely deserves special attention.

 

thanks a ton

 

 

I began taking niacin at the age of 18, before the days of longevity supplementation. Back then I was having way too much internal dialogue going on. Very high speed stuff. I couldn't shut it off and even heard voices from time to time. I suspected schizophrenia and read up on it. Discovered Dr. Hoffer's theories and thus tried out his niacin idea--a gram three times a day. I liked the effect very much and continued it for 25 years or so. I felt mentally clearer and more creative when taking it, and was indeed aging slower than the people around me. It fact it was annoying to get comments about it as some thought I was this kid who had gotten ahead of them.  

 

The anti-aging effect could have a genetic component as I looked younger than most people at 18. The bulk of it I attribute to NAD+ stimulation, the same thing NR is being sold for. Recently I've begun experimenting with NR intermittently, using nicotinamide + ribose rather than the slower acting riboside and combining it with exercise. See my recent thread--Exercise like a girl--which is directed not only to exercise but to mitochondrial husbandry. There are numerous drivers of aging, but mitochondrial dysfunction and stem cell depletion are the most important, in my opinion.

 

As for niacin itself, I now think the analogues are better. Nicotinamide has 5-10 times the half-life of niacin, for example, and is much easier to tolerate. As for the toxicity of niacin, I can't answer that. I don't take large doses today as I don't need it and it makes my eyes dry up--a known side effect.

[Ovidus]

 

 

 

 

 

I used 3 grams a day for about 25 years, and had no problem with it other than the acidity and the occasional flushing that had people asking me if I had a sunburn. I wasn't aging much at all until someone convinced me that it caused liver damage. So I stopped, and began to age rapidly as a result (which I only saw in retrospect). 

 

 

 

Hold on a second?!?!?!

 

Turnbuckle says something like that and people barely react to it??? I seriously think that the posters here are brain dead. If this was coming from a guy with 2 posts ever, having registered on the site a week ago, I wold brush it aside, thinking that soon a hidden advertisement for a miracle product is going to show up. However, I have been following Turnbuckle for a while, and he certainly comes across as a well-read, knowledgeable and meticulous guy. He is making an enormous statement here; so much to elaborate on and ask questions about. Sir, can you please share the following:

 

- between what ages did you take it?

 

- almost 30 years ago, what was it that prompted you to take such a high dose? was it, even back then, suspected to play a role in aging? I doubt it...

 

- what else were you doing during the period and how and to what extent are you able to attribute the lack of aging to niacin?

 

- can you please elaborate a bit on "not aging much at all"? Was it all aspects of aging that seemed to have been arrested (such as graying of hair, skin characteristics, mental capacity, reaction time, muscle tone.....)?

 

- in the end do you think that even at 3 grams it isn't liver toxic?

 

I know NAD and the connected items such as the more basic niacin are being talked about extensively here these days, but this absolutely deserves special attention.

 

thanks a ton

 

 

I began taking niacin at the age of 18, before the days of longevity supplementation. Back then I was having way too much internal dialogue going on. Very high speed stuff. I couldn't shut it off and even heard voices from time to time. I suspected schizophrenia and read up on it. Discovered Dr. Hoffer's theories and thus tried out his niacin idea--a gram three times a day. I liked the effect very much and continued it for 25 years or so. I felt mentally clearer and more creative when taking it, and was indeed aging slower than the people around me. It fact it was annoying to get comments about it as some thought I was this kid who had gotten ahead of them.  

 

The anti-aging effect could have a genetic component as I looked younger than most people at 18. The bulk of it I attribute to NAD+ stimulation, the same thing NR is being sold for. Recently I've begun experimenting with NR intermittently, using nicotinamide + ribose rather than the slower acting riboside and combining it with exercise. See my recent thread--Exercise like a girl--which is directed not only to exercise but to mitochondrial husbandry. There are numerous drivers of aging, but mitochondrial dysfunction and stem cell depletion are the most important, in my opinion.

 

As for niacin itself, I now think the analogues are better. Nicotinamide has 5-10 times the half-life of niacin, for example, and is much easier to tolerate. As for the toxicity of niacin, I can't answer that. I don't take large doses today as I don't need it and it makes my eyes dry up--a known side effect.

 

 

Thank you very much for the detailed response Turnbuckle. 

Now you started at 18 and took it for 25 years, meaning you stopped at 43 and between 43 and 45 saw accelerated aging. These specific numbers make it tough to judge the effects, as the period between 43 and 45 can easily be the time-span when you -for the first time ever- begin noticing the visible effects of aging. 

 

Allow me to ask you one more question: I am in Europe, and ave easy access to niacin. At the moment I do not have immediate access to Nicotinamide or any of the other compounds that are likely better in this regard. I am thinking to start with niacin (which I have taken at around 1 gram / day in the past) and giving the whole debate around Nicotiamide a little more time to settle while staying on niacin. After a few months or longer, we will know what compound is best and if not, we will at least have so much more knowledge about suppliers/quality/proper price points etc... 

 

In your experience, would suddenly coming off 3 grams / day (assuming I can work my way up to such a dose without major issues) -in order to switch to a related compound- cause issues? Would you say "if you are not going to stay on 3 grams / day, do not start, because coming off is going to be an ordeal"?

 

Many thanks....

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much for the detailed response Turnbuckle. 

Now you started at 18 and took it for 25 years, meaning you stopped at 43 and between 43 and 45 saw accelerated aging. These specific numbers make it tough to judge the effects, as the period between 43 and 45 can easily be the time-span when you -for the first time ever- begin noticing the visible effects of aging. 

 

Allow me to ask you one more question: I am in Europe, and ave easy access to niacin. At the moment I do not have immediate access to Nicotinamide or any of the other compounds that are likely better in this regard. I am thinking to start with niacin (which I have taken at around 1 gram / day in the past) and giving the whole debate around Nicotiamide a little more time to settle while staying on niacin. After a few months or longer, we will know what compound is best and if not, we will at least have so much more knowledge about suppliers/quality/proper price points etc... 

 

In your experience, would suddenly coming off 3 grams / day (assuming I can work my way up to such a dose without major issues) -in order to switch to a related compound- cause issues? Would you say "if you are not going to stay on 3 grams / day, do not start, because coming off is going to be an ordeal"?

 

Many thanks....

 

 

 

I didn't have any problem stopping niacin, and the aging I saw was slow. It wasn't anything out of Oscar Wilde. As for the availability of nicotinamide in Europe, I'm surprised you can't get it. I just checked Amazon in UK, France and Germany for niacinamide (same as nicotinamide), and all three carry it.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Thank you very much for the detailed response Turnbuckle. 

Now you started at 18 and took it for 25 years, meaning you stopped at 43 and between 43 and 45 saw accelerated aging. These specific numbers make it tough to judge the effects, as the period between 43 and 45 can easily be the time-span when you -for the first time ever- begin noticing the visible effects of aging. 

 

Allow me to ask you one more question: I am in Europe, and ave easy access to niacin. At the moment I do not have immediate access to Nicotinamide or any of the other compounds that are likely better in this regard. I am thinking to start with niacin (which I have taken at around 1 gram / day in the past) and giving the whole debate around Nicotiamide a little more time to settle while staying on niacin. After a few months or longer, we will know what compound is best and if not, we will at least have so much more knowledge about suppliers/quality/proper price points etc... 

 

In your experience, would suddenly coming off 3 grams / day (assuming I can work my way up to such a dose without major issues) -in order to switch to a related compound- cause issues? Would you say "if you are not going to stay on 3 grams / day, do not start, because coming off is going to be an ordeal"?

 

Many thanks....

 

 

It's nicotinic acid, not nicotinAMIDE, or niacinAMIDE.

Anyway, obviously there are no side-effects coming off vitamin B3. Although niacin does have some mild effect on serotonin or whatever that persists for days.  
 

[ironfistx]

I wasn't aging much at all until someone convinced me that it caused liver damage. So I stopped, and began to age rapidly as a result (which I only saw in retrospect).

What aging did you experience when you stopped?

[pamojja]

Something to consider, if you want to raise cholesterol:

 

Dave Feldman - 'The Dynamic Influence of a High Fat Diet on Cholesterol Variability'

[Empiricus]

 

 

I began taking niacin at the age of 18, before the days of longevity supplementation. Back then I was having way too much internal dialogue going on. Very high speed stuff. I couldn't shut it off and even heard voices from time to time. I suspected schizophrenia and read up on it. Discovered Dr. Hoffer's theories and thus tried out his niacin idea--a gram three times a day. I liked the effect very much and continued it for 25 years or so. I felt mentally clearer and more creative when taking it, and was indeed aging slower than the people around me. It fact it was annoying to get comments about it as some thought I was this kid who had gotten ahead of them.  

 

The anti-aging effect could have a genetic component as I looked younger than most people at 18. The bulk of it I attribute to NAD+ stimulation, the same thing NR is being sold for. Recently I've begun experimenting with NR intermittently, using nicotinamide + ribose rather than the slower acting riboside and combining it with exercise. See my recent thread--Exercise like a girl--which is directed not only to exercise but to mitochondrial husbandry. There are numerous drivers of aging, but mitochondrial dysfunction and stem cell depletion are the most important, in my opinion.

 

As for niacin itself, I now think the analogues are better. Nicotinamide has 5-10 times the half-life of niacin, for example, and is much easier to tolerate. As for the toxicity of niacin, I can't answer that. I don't take large doses today as I don't need it and it makes my eyes dry up--a known side effect.

 

 

Very interesting story.  I followed your link to the new thread you started, but unfortunately I am not allowed to post replies to it.  I hope everyone isn't prevented from replying, because exercise + N + R looks promising.  

Edited by Empiricus, 15 April 2017 - 04:34 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

I began taking niacin at the age of 18, before the days of longevity supplementation. Back then I was having way too much internal dialogue going on. Very high speed stuff. I couldn't shut it off and even heard voices from time to time. I suspected schizophrenia and read up on it. Discovered Dr. Hoffer's theories and thus tried out his niacin idea--a gram three times a day. I liked the effect very much and continued it for 25 years or so. I felt mentally clearer and more creative when taking it, and was indeed aging slower than the people around me. It fact it was annoying to get comments about it as some thought I was this kid who had gotten ahead of them.  

 

The anti-aging effect could have a genetic component as I looked younger than most people at 18. The bulk of it I attribute to NAD+ stimulation, the same thing NR is being sold for. Recently I've begun experimenting with NR intermittently, using nicotinamide + ribose rather than the slower acting riboside and combining it with exercise. See my recent thread--Exercise like a girl--which is directed not only to exercise but to mitochondrial husbandry. There are numerous drivers of aging, but mitochondrial dysfunction and stem cell depletion are the most important, in my opinion.

 

As for niacin itself, I now think the analogues are better. Nicotinamide has 5-10 times the half-life of niacin, for example, and is much easier to tolerate. As for the toxicity of niacin, I can't answer that. I don't take large doses today as I don't need it and it makes my eyes dry up--a known side effect.

 

 

Very interesting story.  I followed your link to the new thread you started, but unfortunately I am not allowed to post replies to it.  I hope everyone isn't prevented from replying, because exercise + N + R looks promising.  

 

 

Everyone is blocked from replying, including me. I don't know why, but it is unfortunate.