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I've been starting to research them, and I have so many questions about NAD precursors.

nicotinamide riboside nmn nicotinamide mononucleotide nad

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#1 Exception

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 05:35 AM


I'm very intrigued by the idea of NR and NMN. Allow me to explain my current state of knowledge: I'm a biochemistry student so I know the roles that NAD is most famous for: glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, citric acid cycle, fatty acid oxidation, fatty acid synthesis, and the electron transport chain. I know that the amount of NAD in the body decreases over time and it's intuitive that this would cause a lot of problems and that reversing it would partially reverse aging.

 

So far I've just read around 15-20 abstracts, a couple news articles, and this: http://alivebynature.com/about-niagen/

 

What I want to know is:

 

1. Are there any practical differences between NR and NMN? My understanding is that NMN is just phosphorylated NR and the body turns NMN into NR. Doesn't that make them functionally identical? 

2. I found two human studies on NR. Have any human studies on NMN been released so far?

3. My understanding is that there are currently multiple NMN studies going on and no NR studies. Why? What gives?

4. What's the right age to start taking NR / NMN? It's pointless to take it when you're young right?

5. What's the right dose? One study examined in the article linked above found that there weren't extra benefits beyond 300mg.

6. When will more human studies be published?

7. What's the connection between NAD and sirtuins?

8. Any chance this is overhyped?

 

If anyone can answer or link me an answer to any of these questions, I'd like that. Even just one question answered will help. If there's a book or a website that actually answers these questions in clearly-explained manner, that would be preferable.


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#2 Adam Karlovsky

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 12:51 AM

NR is one step further away from NAD+. It goes NR -> NMN -> NAD+ so maybe they think the less steps away the less likely there's to be problems? Or maybe there's a difference in bioavailability between the two?

I imagine the right dose depends on how effective the NAD enzyme system is. If it's not dysfunctional we might not benefit from NR at all, but it degrades as we age. What age? Who knows...

Have a read of this paper: http://www.nature.co...es/npjamd201617
 

And listen to this lecture: 

I think you'll get a lot of of both.

Is it overhyped? I don't think so... it's getting right to the heart of a really important system. For example, I think Metformin mostly works through NAD and SIRT via AMPK, so fundamentally they're doing the same thing. A difference is NMN is not going to confer the higher-level physiological benefits (and tradeoffs) that Metformin has. Metformin is probably better as a preventative, and then NMN is appropriate when AMPK activators aren't cutting it anymore (due to getting to a certain level of systematic dysfunction).


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#3 bryanfromvan

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:55 PM

It would be really nice if some of the more experienced posters would summarize their findings on this particular thread (besides the ones with documented financial conflicts).

 

There are multiple threads on NR vs NMN (both which appear available for purchase or am I dreaming) and it's hard to synthesize the various viewpoints and digressions. Never mind when the water is muddied by people with vested interests.

 

It seems pretty clear that there are advantages in taking NMN and NR but with the availability of consumer products putting NR at 250mg/day for $60/month and NMM at 50mg/day at $50/month what is the right choice and why?

 

@Bryan_S? @TurnBuckle? Other sages I've yet to encounter?



#4 stefan_001

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 06:50 PM

It would be really nice if some of the more experienced posters would summarize their findings on this particular thread (besides the ones with documented financial conflicts).

 

There are multiple threads on NR vs NMN (both which appear available for purchase or am I dreaming) and it's hard to synthesize the various viewpoints and digressions. Never mind when the water is muddied by people with vested interests.

 

It seems pretty clear that there are advantages in taking NMN and NR but with the availability of consumer products putting NR at 250mg/day for $60/month and NMM at 50mg/day at $50/month what is the right choice and why?

 

@Bryan_S? @TurnBuckle? Other sages I've yet to encounter?

 

Why dont make your own analysis? Then you do not need to worry about "the ones with documented financial conflicts"......


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#5 bryanfromvan

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:11 PM

Thanks Stefan_001 for answering my question with a question and not helping me at all. Clearly I'm new to this forum and have been pouring over the many threads that have been created over this issue. I don't have a biochemical background and a lot of what is said seems reasonable, and then someone contradicts that person with cited material and I'm left with wondering what the truth is.

Also there are people that seemed to have invested in these companies who are exhibiting less than objective opinions.

I'm looking for the opinions of people that are clearly objective in their postings, which is why I cited the two users I did.

Please don't add more noise to the signal.

 


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#6 stefan_001

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:33 PM

Thanks Stefan_001 for answering my question with a question and not helping me at all. Clearly I'm new to this forum and have been pouring over the many threads that have been created over this issue. I don't have a biochemical background and a lot of what is said seems reasonable, and then someone contradicts that person with cited material and I'm left with wondering what the truth is.

Also there are people that seemed to have invested in these companies who are exhibiting less than objective opinions.

I'm looking for the opinions of people that are clearly objective in their postings, which is why I cited the two users I did.

Please don't add more noise to the signal.

 

- If you only want the opinion of two persons you can simply send them a direct message

- If you want to restrict people from participating in the discussion you can create a "invitation only" group

 

However if you create a discussion that is open to the public to read and promote views in there based on your subjective judgement then I think you are off in understanding how forums work. And likely you are the one with "secondary interests".


Edited by stefan_001, 06 November 2017 - 07:34 PM.

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#7 bryanfromvan

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:55 PM

1) I want the opinions of anyone. You haven't posited one.

2) The big problem with forums is off topic postings like this.

3) How the hell do you possibly derive that I would have a secondary interest when I can't decide which product to use? That defies logic. I would promote a product. 

 


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#8 stefan_001

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:38 PM

1) I want the opinions of anyone. You haven't posited one.
2) The big problem with forums is off topic postings like this.
3) How the hell do you possibly derive that I would have a secondary interest when I can't decide which product to use? That defies logic. I would promote a product.

Wrt 3) if you would be seriously comparing NR to NMN you would know the prices you quote are wrong. Go to Amazon.com and you will notice that NR sells for about 30USD per month. That is half of what you state. Its easy type amazon.com in your browser, put nicotinamide riboside in the search. Or follow the link here:
https://www.amazon.c...d=32LS4M2KB2FMT

Edited by stefan_001, 06 November 2017 - 09:39 PM.

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#9 stefan_001

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 10:32 PM

Oh and now that we talk prices where do you buy NMN for USD50 per month? Let me guess you were planning to start talking at some point in this thread about alivebynature. Well they don't sell NMN but a wacky cocktail of 475mg per capsule they claim includes 125mg of 95% purity NMN. In other words to get 250mg of alleged NMN you need to swallow 700mg of other stuff, largely NAM if you ask me.

Edited by stefan_001, 06 November 2017 - 10:33 PM.

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#10 Kirito

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 11:30 PM

I ordered some NMN from alivebynature and it arrived today. Took just one capsule and got a severe Niacin flush. Nothing else to report so far.


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#11 able

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 12:14 AM

Oh and now that we talk prices where do you buy NMN for USD50 per month? Let me guess you were planning to start talking at some point in this thread about alivebynature. Well they don't sell NMN but a wacky cocktail of 475mg per capsule they claim includes 125mg of 95% purity NMN. In other words to get 250mg of alleged NMN you need to swallow 700mg of other stuff, largely NAM if you ask me.

 

I noticed a few days ago that they do have links to a pure NMN product that isn't yet available:

 

http://alivebynature...es-125-mg-each/

 

I really don't understand why they would introduce the mixed product first, but guess they have marketing or some such reason.


Edited by able, 07 November 2017 - 12:18 AM.

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#12 bryanfromvan

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 02:10 AM

Thanks for the feedback @Kinto. I'm avoiding Niacin flush because I've got macular degeneration which is why I'm looking for a treatment.

There have been anecdotes regarding this and blindness so that freaks me out as vision is the issue that I'm trying to improve, not risk.

 

Regarding the NMN I was looking at prices for.  It's from revgenetics

https://store.revgen...-mononucleotide. As I'm from Canada it costs more than the states. Same with NR.

The stuff from alivebynature has a lot of other things in it that I don't want.

 

 



#13 stefan_001

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:14 AM

Oh and now that we talk prices where do you buy NMN for USD50 per month? Let me guess you were planning to start talking at some point in this thread about alivebynature. Well they don't sell NMN but a wacky cocktail of 475mg per capsule they claim includes 125mg of 95% purity NMN. In other words to get 250mg of alleged NMN you need to swallow 700mg of other stuff, largely NAM if you ask me.


I noticed a few days ago that they do have links to a pure NMN product that isn't yet available:

http://alivebynature...es-125-mg-each/

I really don't understand why they would introduce the mixed product first, but guess they have marketing or some such reason.

That looks more interesting the pure NMN product, for that price worth to try.
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#14 recon

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 05:17 AM

Oh and now that we talk prices where do you buy NMN for USD50 per month? Let me guess you were planning to start talking at some point in this thread about alivebynature. Well they don't sell NMN but a wacky cocktail of 475mg per capsule they claim includes 125mg of 95% purity NMN. In other words to get 250mg of alleged NMN you need to swallow 700mg of other stuff, largely NAM if you ask me.


I noticed a few days ago that they do have links to a pure NMN product that isn't yet available:

http://alivebynature...es-125-mg-each/

I really don't understand why they would introduce the mixed product first, but guess they have marketing or some such reason.
That looks competitive. May try that soon.
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#15 PAMPAGUY

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:19 AM

There are also plenty of other users on this site that purchase and use the supplements for raising NAD levels. You can buy Nicotinamide and Riboside and take them to raise NAD+ levels at a fraction of the cost of buying NR or NMN.(.10 dose) If they are chemically identical what's the difference?

http://www.longecity...drial-dynamics/

Edited by PAMPAGUY, 14 November 2017 - 07:20 AM.






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