35 replies to this topic

[AlwaysLearning]

I bought five items - ostensibly adrafinil, semax, selank, fasoracetam, and tianeptine - and not one of them has had any noticeable effect, except possibly for a bit of a spacey sensation when trying a lot of the semax at once. Having previously tried and liked pharmaceutical tianeptine and adrafinil from a well-known brand, I'm fairly confident that *at least* those two from Ceretropic were fake. Adrafinil in particular is not a subtle substance.

After complaining to Ceretropic's customer support, they refused to accept returns of opened products.

I can't speak for all their products, but based upon my experience, I'd recommend avoiding them unless you're looking for expensive placebos. Spend a little more elsewhere and (hopefully) get the real things.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[mrnootropic]

Yes, They are definitely Legit.

I do know that they test all of their products by FTIR or HPLC i think, they used to get third party testing, but now do all their testing in-house.

.
All the items you bought ive no idea if they are supposed to have such a profound effect?

Adrafinil isnt subtle, i know that, idk about Tianeptine but ive never tried it..

Ask them for a relevant test result for the batch you ordered. Or send them off to a lab to get tested yourself.

Im 100% sure they're legit though.And they are definitely NOT a scam company.

Edited by mrnootropic, 03 May 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[AlwaysLearning]

Yes, They are definitely Legit.

I do know that they test all of their products by FTIR or HPLC i think, they used to get third party testing, but now do all their testing in-house.

.
All the items you bought ive no idea if they are supposed to have such a profound effect?

Adrafinil isnt subtle, i know that, idk about Tianeptine but ive never tried it..

Ask them for a relevant test result for the batch you ordered. Or send them off to a lab to get tested yourself.

Im 100% sure they're legit though.And they are definitely NOT a scam company.

The adrafinil was definitely fake, or at least significantly reduced in potency. The tianeptine and fasoracetam probably were too. The semax and selank could have been real, as the ones I got from rupharma were also about useless to me. I've honesty never been so disappointed in a nootropics seller.

If you know of a trustworthy, inexpensive lab, I'm all ears. (Preferably something more established than the super tiny one in Tennessee, Colmaric Analyticals, that seems strangely popular among noot sellers.) Anyway I definitely wouldn't trust Ceretropic to regulate themselves.

Thanks for your feedback.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[mrnootropic]

 

Yes, They are definitely Legit.

I do know that they test all of their products by FTIR or HPLC i think, they used to get third party testing, but now do all their testing in-house.

.
All the items you bought ive no idea if they are supposed to have such a profound effect?

Adrafinil isnt subtle, i know that, idk about Tianeptine but ive never tried it..

Ask them for a relevant test result for the batch you ordered. Or send them off to a lab to get tested yourself.

Im 100% sure they're legit though.And they are definitely NOT a scam company.

The adrafinil was definitely fake, or at least significantly reduced in potency. The tianeptine and fasoracetam probably were too. The semax and selank could have been real, as the ones I got from rupharma were also about useless to me. I've honesty never been so disappointed in a nootropics seller.

If you know of a trustworthy, inexpensive lab, I'm all ears. (Preferably something more established than the super tiny one in Tennessee, Colmaric Analyticals, that seems strangely popular among noot sellers.) Anyway I definitely wouldn't trust Ceretropic to regulate themselves.

Thanks for your feedback.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

 

Well , energy control labs is exactly what your looking for.

It's a laboratory aimed at the end user who is actually ingesting the substance they want testing.

Its mainly used for MDMA, Piracetam aswell as NSI-189. 

 

I got my NSI-189 tested at energy control labs.

Colmaric analyticals is actually a real lab, its only popular amongst Noot sellers because they test Nootropics without any question.

 

Some labs, especially in the UK charge insane amounts of money for certain nootropics where as Colmaric charges $300 i think.

 

Energy Control is 120 euros for a full PDF report. Or 70 euros to get a basic report back.

I think they will be able to test Tianeptine and the Fasoracetam. Just email them and ask if that is possible.

[AlwaysLearning]

Yes, They are definitely Legit.

I do know that they test all of their products by FTIR or HPLC i think, they used to get third party testing, but now do all their testing in-house.

.
All the items you bought ive no idea if they are supposed to have such a profound effect?

Adrafinil isnt subtle, i know that, idk about Tianeptine but ive never tried it..

Ask them for a relevant test result for the batch you ordered. Or send them off to a lab to get tested yourself.

Im 100% sure they're legit though.And they are definitely NOT a scam company.

The adrafinil was definitely fake, or at least significantly reduced in potency. The tianeptine and fasoracetam probably were too. The semax and selank could have been real, as the ones I got from rupharma were also about useless to me. I've honesty never been so disappointed in a nootropics seller.

If you know of a trustworthy, inexpensive lab, I'm all ears. (Preferably something more established than the super tiny one in Tennessee, Colmaric Analyticals, that seems strangely popular among noot sellers.) Anyway I definitely wouldn't trust Ceretropic to regulate themselves.

Thanks for your feedback.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Well , energy control labs is exactly what your looking for.
It's a laboratory aimed at the end user who is actually ingesting the substance they want testing.
Its mainly used for MDMA, Piracetam aswell as NSI-189.

I got my NSI-189 tested at energy control labs.
Colmaric analyticals is actually a real lab, its only popular amongst Noot sellers because they test Nootropics without any question.

Some labs, especially in the UK charge insane amounts of money for certain nootropics where as Colmaric charges $300 i think.

Energy Control is 120 euros for a full PDF report. Or 70 euros to get a basic report back.
I think they will be able to test Tianeptine and the Fasoracetam. Just email them and ask if that is possible.

Great, thanks for the information.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Ceretropic]

We are certainly not a scam, nor do we sell fake product.

 

I've just spent about an hour looking through our support ticket system, and our orders to Seattle over the past 4 months, and I do not see any tickets regarding this issue, nor do I see any orders to Seattle with all the products you mentioned. Can you give me your order number, so that I can look up your details?

 

Also, we only sell tianeptine sulfate, not the sodium salt. So you cannot compare it to pharmaceutical tianeptine, as that is the sodium salt. They have different potencies and pharmacokinetics.

 

You are more than free to send our products to a lab for analysis. We take great pride in our testing and quality control procedures. Also, if you give me the lot numbers for the jars you received, I can pull a retained sample and have our lab run testing on it again, to get a confirmation.

[normalizing]

alwayslearning, can you report on results from independent lab if the stuff you got is legit please! im interested in hearing about it and i dont know if its a good idea to have the provider test it and claim the results.

[mrnootropic]

alwayslearning, can you report on results from independent lab if the stuff you got is legit please! im interested in hearing about it and i dont know if its a good idea to have the provider test it and claim the results.

 

Ceretropic are saying they will test it from a batch they already have, if they get the lot number.

So if they are offering, why not let them test it? 

 

When it comes to quality and quality control, I personally think Ceretropic is one of the best around, i cant see them doing anything dodgy.

The independent lab testing might be worthwhile, but i personally think that Ceretropics products are real.

 

Its good to be sceptical but.

If they test each batch, it has to be real.

Edited by mrnootropic, 09 May 2017 - 04:53 PM.

[normalizing]

so you would trust a company selling its products testing them too and providing reliable results? what if they test negative on some counts, do you think its good for their business to report this? and how independent is the testing anyway, not unless i have a personal connection the lab do i know for a fact they arent working for them in the first place

[AlwaysLearning]

so you would trust a company selling its products testing them too and providing reliable results? what if they test negative on some counts, do you think its good for their business to report this? and how independent is the testing anyway, not unless i have a personal connection the lab do i know for a fact they arent working for them in the first place

 

No, obviously it's a conflict of interest for them to do their own testing, or to have their testing done by a third party that is not independent of their influence. If they report that there was a problem with that adrafinil batch, then there will be reason to suspect it was an honest mistake and that they want to correct it. If they report no problem with that batch, then I will know something is wrong and I will avoid their products like the plague.

 

We are certainly not a scam, nor do we sell fake product.

 

I've just spent about an hour looking through our support ticket system, and our orders to Seattle over the past 4 months, and I do not see any tickets regarding this issue, nor do I see any orders to Seattle with all the products you mentioned. Can you give me your order number, so that I can look up your details?

 

Also, we only sell tianeptine sulfate, not the sodium salt. So you cannot compare it to pharmaceutical tianeptine, as that is the sodium salt. They have different potencies and pharmacokinetics.

 

You are more than free to send our products to a lab for analysis. We take great pride in our testing and quality control procedures. Also, if you give me the lot numbers for the jars you received, I can pull a retained sample and have our lab run testing on it again, to get a confirmation.

 

If your support personnel are supposed to open a ticket in response to complaints, then I guess the one who answered my email failed to do their due diligence. My complaint was immediately dismissed.

 

You supposedly sell tianeptine sodium, that's what your website calls it and that's what I thought I was buying. If your website is giving false information, then it should be fixed immediately. The title is simply (oddly) "Tianeptine Solution". It is described and labeled for dosing as tianeptine sodium.

 

I ordered the fasoracetam separately. If you were looking only for a single order with all those products, then that is presumably why you didn't find it. 

 

I have most of the numbers you've requested on hand and send them to you in a private message. Please send all replies here, on this thread.

 

 

alwayslearning, can you report on results from independent lab if the stuff you got is legit please! im interested in hearing about it and i dont know if its a good idea to have the provider test it and claim the results.

 

Ceretropic are saying they will test it from a batch they already have, if they get the lot number.

So if they are offering, why not let them test it? 

 

When it comes to quality and quality control, I personally think Ceretropic is one of the best around, i cant see them doing anything dodgy.

The independent lab testing might be worthwhile, but i personally think that Ceretropics products are real.

 

Its good to be sceptical but.

If they test each batch, it has to be real.

 

 

"If they test each batch, it has to be real."

 

That is a patently false statement.

[Ceretropic]

We got your PM. Thank you for that!

 

I apologize for the confusion on the Tianeptine. I did not realize you had gotten the solution. That one is the sodium salt. We only sell the sulfate salt in powder form.

 

I'll have our lab manager pull the testing results from those batches tomorrow. We'll also pull retained samples, and run them through the lab again. If you find the lot numbers for your other jars, please PM those to us as well.

 

Thanks!

[normalizing]

alwayslearning, try to be kind and resolve your issues with ceretropic, and then report aftermath in here after its all been settled, thanks

[AlwaysLearning]

alwayslearning, try to be kind and resolve your issues with ceretropic, and then report aftermath in here after its all been settled, thanks

I'm trying not to be too aggravated, but I do feel it's important that I be honest here. People are welcome to take it or leave it, but I am careful about what I put in my body. Years ago, I learned the hard way just how devastating misplaced trust can be; since then, I've tried to help others avoid the same pitfall.

I want this dialogue to continue transparently, and people can draw their own conclusions.

[aconita]

Most whom sell those kind of compounds doesn't even care about the certificate of analysis provided by the Chinese producer (which I agree means really almost nothing anyway), leave alone having them tested by an independent lab.

 

Ceretropic is one of the very few whom actually does test the batches they get, as far as I know that has been done by independent labs till recently when they did buy their own testing equipment in order to perform their own tests.

 

Testing and equipment don't come cheap therefore the investment means the company does actually care about quality.

 

Obviously there is still a possible conflict of interests but the only way around it would be each customer to have their compounds tested independently, which is impossible in practice since at this point every single batch should be tested with costs getting quickly out of hand.

 

I am aware Ceretropic isn't selling MK677 anymore due to purity issues, the compound is very popular and sell very well therefore offering good profits...

 

To me that means they do care about quality and safety above profits, I may be wrong, of course.

 

Unfortunately because of shipping misunderstanding issues I have never been able to buy their products therefore mine are just observations from "the outside" but certainly my sensations are that Ceretropic is one of the very few company in this field deserving at least some respect, for sure my first choice if I could.

 

To ask questions and to investigate is always good and healthy for everybody, the company involved included since an opportunity for transparency is always beneficial but to call them as a fraud or a scam without substantial evidence proving it is unfair, wrong and unjustified, especially towards a company that tries its best to provide decent quality in a world of easy profits seekers hidden behind keyboard's anonymity.   

[Forever21]

From my observation, they are the most legit nootropics supplier.

[normalizing]

i was checking their products and i dont feel comfortable buying solutions and sprays. not sure how to use these honestly, its much easier to dose mg with a scale from powders or just have it capsuled

[AlwaysLearning]

I am actually curious why they ostensibly brought testing in-house. Presumably it was a cost-cutting measure, since third party testing is preferred to first party testing, all other things being equal.

Ceretropic representative, I'd like to see the certificates of analysis for the batches numbers I've given you, if possible. I'm curious what kinds of testing were done and what the results were, exactly.

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[Ceretropic]

We definitely did not do it to save money. Analytical equipment is expensive. We've spent over half a million dollars on our lab so far. It will be a long time before we could even break even money-wise. Also, the consumables for our lab cost a ton each month; like solvents, buffers, testing standards, etc. It actually costs us more to run most of the testing in-house. Also, there is a misconception that because we built up a lab, that we don't use 3rd party labs anymore. That's far from the truth. We still spend between $5,000 and $10,000 per month in 3rd party testing. Alkemist Labs and Mérieux NutriSciences are the two main labs we use now, but we still also use Colmeric Analyticals and Analytical Labs for certain things. We don't have all the equipment necessary to be fully self sufficient yet, nor do we have all the expertise. We contract out to other labs for equipment we don't yet have, or methods we have not yet gotten the hang of.

 

There are a couple reasons we have been building up our analytical testing lab, and trying to bring things in-house. For one, flexibility and turn around time. 3rd party labs are very rigid in the way they operate, and often do not give out raw analytical data or testing methods. They consider those proprietary. We wanted to have more verification that methods were being done properly, and to understand the analytical chemistry behind it. This is why we have mostly moved to 3rd party labs that give us that data, and why we have tried to verify methods in-house on our equipment as much as we can. Also, we were getting 5-6 week turnaround times for testing for a while. That's too much time to be able to accept/reject incoming batches in an efficient manner, which was causing a lot of out of stock issues for us. Being able to verify things in-house a lot quicker has reduced that problem drastically. In addition, there are some methods that labs will not do, and compounds that labs will not test. Try getting Modafinil tested at a lab. It's insane! The prices are nuts, and you have to jump through hoops because of the scheduling. Now I can just walk into our lab, and run analysis on anything I want. Also, no labs were able to run chirality analysis on samples for us. They could not verify that L-theanine was actually enantiopure. So we went out and bought an Anton Paar polarmiter, and now we can test that. On top of all that, we just like to be as self-sufficient as we can. I don't trust a lot of people out there, and would rather be able to monitor my team handling these things. It's the same reason we do all our own design, printing, packaging, and fulfillment. We also have much larger plans for where we are taking the company, and an in-house lab is crucial to that plan.

 

So in-house testing is a big part of what we are doing, but it's not the sole testing we do. We still do a lot of 3rd party testing on many things. We are just trying to bring as much as we can in-house as time goes on. The flexibility and speed is invaluable, but it's also really cool to have the ability to run these tests and work with these machines. This is a passion of mine, just as much as it is a business, and sometimes I do things that might never be cost effective, but are rewarding personally. Do we need the new Thermo NIR we just bought? No, not really. However, it's going to be fun building up spectral databases of natural extracts, and using a new technology to quantify actives in the extracts. We'll still contract out for HP-TLC and HPLC of those extracts for the time being. However, it will allow us to build up our database while we do, and potentially be able to do that testing quicker in-house down the line. If nothing else, I can test the alcohol content of the homebrew I make on it. That's worth the $35K. Haha

 

I've uploaded the COAs for the batches used in your lots here: http://imgur.com/a/0I3UD

 

AlwaysLearning, can you PM me your Bitcoin wallet address? I am going to go ahead and refund you for your two orders, and you can use that money to send our samples to a lab of your choosing if you wish. My team is also pulling some jars from the shelf, and will be running them through the HPLC to verify.

Cheers!

[mrnootropic]

We definitely did not do it to save money. Analytical equipment is expensive. We've spent over half a million dollars on our lab so far. It will be a long time before we could even break even money-wise. Also, the consumables for our lab cost a ton each month; like solvents, buffers, testing standards, etc. It actually costs us more to run most of the testing in-house. Also, there is a misconception that because we built up a lab, that we don't use 3rd party labs anymore. That's far from the truth. We still spend between $5,000 and $10,000 per month in 3rd party testing. Alkemist Labs and Mérieux NutriSciences are the two main labs we use now, but we still also use Colmeric Analyticals and Analytical Labs for certain things. We don't have all the equipment necessary to be fully self sufficient yet, nor do we have all the expertise. We contract out to other labs for equipment we don't yet have, or methods we have not yet gotten the hang of.

There are a couple reasons we have been building up our analytical testing lab, and trying to bring things in-house. For one, flexibility and turn around time. 3rd party labs are very rigid in the way they operate, and often do not give out raw analytical data or testing methods. They consider those proprietary. We wanted to have more verification that methods were being done properly, and to understand the analytical chemistry behind it. This is why we have mostly moved to 3rd party labs that give us that data, and why we have tried to verify methods in-house on our equipment as much as we can. Also, we were getting 5-6 week turnaround times for testing for a while. That's too much time to be able to accept/reject incoming batches in an efficient manner, which was causing a lot of out of stock issues for us. Being able to verify things in-house a lot quicker has reduced that problem drastically. In addition, there are some methods that labs will not do, and compounds that labs will not test. Try getting Modafinil tested at a lab. It's insane! The prices are nuts, and you have to jump through hoops because of the scheduling. Now I can just walk into our lab, and run analysis on anything I want. Also, no labs were able to run chirality analysis on samples for us. They could not verify that L-theanine was actually enantiopure. So we went out and bought an Anton Paar polarmiter, and now we can test that. On top of all that, we just like to be as self-sufficient as we can. I don't trust a lot of people out there, and would rather be able to monitor my team handling these things. It's the same reason we do all our own design, printing, packaging, and fulfillment. We also have much larger plans for where we are taking the company, and an in-house lab is crucial to that plan.

So in-house testing is a big part of what we are doing, but it's not the sole testing we do. We still do a lot of 3rd party testing on many things. We are just trying to bring as much as we can in-house as time goes on. The flexibility and speed is invaluable, but it's also really cool to have the ability to run these tests and work with these machines. This is a passion of mine, just as much as it is a business, and sometimes I do things that might never be cost effective, but are rewarding personally. Do we need the new Thermo NIR we just bought? No, not really. However, it's going to be fun building up spectral databases of natural extracts, and using a new technology to quantify actives in the extracts. We'll still contract out for HP-TLC and HPLC of those extracts for the time being. However, it will allow us to build up our database while we do, and potentially be able to do that testing quicker in-house down the line. If nothing else, I can test the alcohol content of the homebrew I make on it. That's worth the $35K. Haha

I've uploaded the COAs for the batches used in your lots here: http://imgur.com/a/0I3UD

AlwaysLearning, can you PM me your Bitcoin wallet address? I am going to go ahead and refund you for your two orders, and you can use that money to send our samples to a lab of your choosing if you wish. My team is also pulling some jars from the shelf, and will be running them through the HPLC to verify.

Cheers!

Great response! I told you ceretropic was legit..

Over half a million dollars? That's alot to invest, i hope you guys get to see a profit from this sometime soon.

[AlwaysLearning]

We definitely did not do it to save money. Analytical equipment is expensive. We've spent over half a million dollars on our lab so far. It will be a long time before we could even break even money-wise. Also, the consumables for our lab cost a ton each month; like solvents, buffers, testing standards, etc. It actually costs us more to run most of the testing in-house. Also, there is a misconception that because we built up a lab, that we don't use 3rd party labs anymore. That's far from the truth. We still spend between $5,000 and $10,000 per month in 3rd party testing. Alkemist Labs and Mérieux NutriSciences are the two main labs we use now, but we still also use Colmeric Analyticals and Analytical Labs for certain things. We don't have all the equipment necessary to be fully self sufficient yet, nor do we have all the expertise. We contract out to other labs for equipment we don't yet have, or methods we have not yet gotten the hang of.

 

There are a couple reasons we have been building up our analytical testing lab, and trying to bring things in-house. For one, flexibility and turn around time. 3rd party labs are very rigid in the way they operate, and often do not give out raw analytical data or testing methods. They consider those proprietary. We wanted to have more verification that methods were being done properly, and to understand the analytical chemistry behind it. This is why we have mostly moved to 3rd party labs that give us that data, and why we have tried to verify methods in-house on our equipment as much as we can. Also, we were getting 5-6 week turnaround times for testing for a while. That's too much time to be able to accept/reject incoming batches in an efficient manner, which was causing a lot of out of stock issues for us. Being able to verify things in-house a lot quicker has reduced that problem drastically. In addition, there are some methods that labs will not do, and compounds that labs will not test. Try getting Modafinil tested at a lab. It's insane! The prices are nuts, and you have to jump through hoops because of the scheduling. Now I can just walk into our lab, and run analysis on anything I want. Also, no labs were able to run chirality analysis on samples for us. They could not verify that L-theanine was actually enantiopure. So we went out and bought an Anton Paar polarmiter, and now we can test that. On top of all that, we just like to be as self-sufficient as we can. I don't trust a lot of people out there, and would rather be able to monitor my team handling these things. It's the same reason we do all our own design, printing, packaging, and fulfillment. We also have much larger plans for where we are taking the company, and an in-house lab is crucial to that plan.

 

So in-house testing is a big part of what we are doing, but it's not the sole testing we do. We still do a lot of 3rd party testing on many things. We are just trying to bring as much as we can in-house as time goes on. The flexibility and speed is invaluable, but it's also really cool to have the ability to run these tests and work with these machines. This is a passion of mine, just as much as it is a business, and sometimes I do things that might never be cost effective, but are rewarding personally. Do we need the new Thermo NIR we just bought? No, not really. However, it's going to be fun building up spectral databases of natural extracts, and using a new technology to quantify actives in the extracts. We'll still contract out for HP-TLC and HPLC of those extracts for the time being. However, it will allow us to build up our database while we do, and potentially be able to do that testing quicker in-house down the line. If nothing else, I can test the alcohol content of the homebrew I make on it. That's worth the $35K. Haha

 

I've uploaded the COAs for the batches used in your lots here: http://imgur.com/a/0I3UD

 

AlwaysLearning, can you PM me your Bitcoin wallet address? I am going to go ahead and refund you for your two orders, and you can use that money to send our samples to a lab of your choosing if you wish. My team is also pulling some jars from the shelf, and will be running them through the HPLC to verify.

Cheers!

 

That was a fantastic answer, thank you. It makes a lot of sense. 

 

Thanks for the COAs, I appreciate it. For my edification, where would I generally find reference spectra for compounds, including these?

 

Also, thank you very much for the refund. 

[AlwaysLearning]

 

We definitely did not do it to save money. Analytical equipment is expensive. We've spent over half a million dollars on our lab so far. It will be a long time before we could even break even money-wise. Also, the consumables for our lab cost a ton each month; like solvents, buffers, testing standards, etc. It actually costs us more to run most of the testing in-house. Also, there is a misconception that because we built up a lab, that we don't use 3rd party labs anymore. That's far from the truth. We still spend between $5,000 and $10,000 per month in 3rd party testing. Alkemist Labs and Mérieux NutriSciences are the two main labs we use now, but we still also use Colmeric Analyticals and Analytical Labs for certain things. We don't have all the equipment necessary to be fully self sufficient yet, nor do we have all the expertise. We contract out to other labs for equipment we don't yet have, or methods we have not yet gotten the hang of.

There are a couple reasons we have been building up our analytical testing lab, and trying to bring things in-house. For one, flexibility and turn around time. 3rd party labs are very rigid in the way they operate, and often do not give out raw analytical data or testing methods. They consider those proprietary. We wanted to have more verification that methods were being done properly, and to understand the analytical chemistry behind it. This is why we have mostly moved to 3rd party labs that give us that data, and why we have tried to verify methods in-house on our equipment as much as we can. Also, we were getting 5-6 week turnaround times for testing for a while. That's too much time to be able to accept/reject incoming batches in an efficient manner, which was causing a lot of out of stock issues for us. Being able to verify things in-house a lot quicker has reduced that problem drastically. In addition, there are some methods that labs will not do, and compounds that labs will not test. Try getting Modafinil tested at a lab. It's insane! The prices are nuts, and you have to jump through hoops because of the scheduling. Now I can just walk into our lab, and run analysis on anything I want. Also, no labs were able to run chirality analysis on samples for us. They could not verify that L-theanine was actually enantiopure. So we went out and bought an Anton Paar polarmiter, and now we can test that. On top of all that, we just like to be as self-sufficient as we can. I don't trust a lot of people out there, and would rather be able to monitor my team handling these things. It's the same reason we do all our own design, printing, packaging, and fulfillment. We also have much larger plans for where we are taking the company, and an in-house lab is crucial to that plan.

So in-house testing is a big part of what we are doing, but it's not the sole testing we do. We still do a lot of 3rd party testing on many things. We are just trying to bring as much as we can in-house as time goes on. The flexibility and speed is invaluable, but it's also really cool to have the ability to run these tests and work with these machines. This is a passion of mine, just as much as it is a business, and sometimes I do things that might never be cost effective, but are rewarding personally. Do we need the new Thermo NIR we just bought? No, not really. However, it's going to be fun building up spectral databases of natural extracts, and using a new technology to quantify actives in the extracts. We'll still contract out for HP-TLC and HPLC of those extracts for the time being. However, it will allow us to build up our database while we do, and potentially be able to do that testing quicker in-house down the line. If nothing else, I can test the alcohol content of the homebrew I make on it. That's worth the $35K. Haha

I've uploaded the COAs for the batches used in your lots here: http://imgur.com/a/0I3UD

AlwaysLearning, can you PM me your Bitcoin wallet address? I am going to go ahead and refund you for your two orders, and you can use that money to send our samples to a lab of your choosing if you wish. My team is also pulling some jars from the shelf, and will be running them through the HPLC to verify.

Cheers!

Great response! I told you ceretropic was legit..

Over half a million dollars? That's alot to invest, i hope you guys get to see a profit from this sometime soon.

 

 

mrnootropic, it doesn't prove they're legit but it certainly does provide a strong air of credibility. 

[Ceretropic]

This site has some reference spectra: http://sdbs.db.aist....t_frame_top.cgi

 

However, most of the less common things are not in there. Also, most labs/companies make you pay for spectral libraries. It's the same for testing methods. Labs keep those private, and try to make money off selling them. Sigma Aldrich has some libraries, but they are expensive.

 

This is a simple explanation for reading them: http://web.chem.ucla.../tutorial33.pdf

 

Also, a more in-depth one: http://www3.uma.pt/j.../Teorica/IR.pdf

[beefnewton]

I know you try to minimize your time on the Nootropics Reddit sub, but this would be great info for the sub's populace.  Just chock full of information.

 

We definitely did not do it to save money. Analytical equipment is expensive. We've spent over half a million dollars on our lab so far. It will be a long time before we could even break even money-wise. Also, the consumables for our lab cost a ton each month; like solvents, buffers, testing standards, etc. It actually costs us more to run most of the testing in-house. Also, there is a misconception that because we built up a lab, that we don't use 3rd party labs anymore. That's far from the truth. We still spend between $5,000 and $10,000 per month in 3rd party testing. Alkemist Labs and Mérieux NutriSciences are the two main labs we use now, but we still also use Colmeric Analyticals and Analytical Labs for certain things. We don't have all the equipment necessary to be fully self sufficient yet, nor do we have all the expertise. We contract out to other labs for equipment we don't yet have, or methods we have not yet gotten the hang of.

 

There are a couple reasons we have been building up our analytical testing lab, and trying to bring things in-house. For one, flexibility and turn around time. 3rd party labs are very rigid in the way they operate, and often do not give out raw analytical data or testing methods. They consider those proprietary. We wanted to have more verification that methods were being done properly, and to understand the analytical chemistry behind it. This is why we have mostly moved to 3rd party labs that give us that data, and why we have tried to verify methods in-house on our equipment as much as we can. Also, we were getting 5-6 week turnaround times for testing for a while. That's too much time to be able to accept/reject incoming batches in an efficient manner, which was causing a lot of out of stock issues for us. Being able to verify things in-house a lot quicker has reduced that problem drastically. In addition, there are some methods that labs will not do, and compounds that labs will not test. Try getting Modafinil tested at a lab. It's insane! The prices are nuts, and you have to jump through hoops because of the scheduling. Now I can just walk into our lab, and run analysis on anything I want. Also, no labs were able to run chirality analysis on samples for us. They could not verify that L-theanine was actually enantiopure. So we went out and bought an Anton Paar polarmiter, and now we can test that. On top of all that, we just like to be as self-sufficient as we can. I don't trust a lot of people out there, and would rather be able to monitor my team handling these things. It's the same reason we do all our own design, printing, packaging, and fulfillment. We also have much larger plans for where we are taking the company, and an in-house lab is crucial to that plan.

 

So in-house testing is a big part of what we are doing, but it's not the sole testing we do. We still do a lot of 3rd party testing on many things. We are just trying to bring as much as we can in-house as time goes on. The flexibility and speed is invaluable, but it's also really cool to have the ability to run these tests and work with these machines. This is a passion of mine, just as much as it is a business, and sometimes I do things that might never be cost effective, but are rewarding personally. Do we need the new Thermo NIR we just bought? No, not really. However, it's going to be fun building up spectral databases of natural extracts, and using a new technology to quantify actives in the extracts. We'll still contract out for HP-TLC and HPLC of those extracts for the time being. However, it will allow us to build up our database while we do, and potentially be able to do that testing quicker in-house down the line. If nothing else, I can test the alcohol content of the homebrew I make on it. That's worth the $35K. Haha

 

I've uploaded the COAs for the batches used in your lots here: http://imgur.com/a/0I3UD

 

AlwaysLearning, can you PM me your Bitcoin wallet address? I am going to go ahead and refund you for your two orders, and you can use that money to send our samples to a lab of your choosing if you wish. My team is also pulling some jars from the shelf, and will be running them through the HPLC to verify.

Cheers!

 

Edited by beefnewton, 12 May 2017 - 11:05 PM.

[normalizing]

ceretropic i was checking your samples and i do not see any powders its always solutions or IV material which turns me off. that the one problem i have with your website, you offer too much IV material and various solutions :/

[mrnootropic]

ceretropic i was checking your samples and i do not see any powders its always solutions or IV material which turns me off. that the one problem i have with your website, you offer too much IV material and various solutions :/

 

They have 24 different nootropics powders in stock, which is more than i sell and my store is mainly focused on nootropic powders lol.

the link https://www.ceretrop...otropic-powders

They have 24 powders that are in stock now as you should see in the link.

Edited by mrnootropic, 13 May 2017 - 06:54 AM.

[normalizing]

yeah i saw them but i was asking something different, how come they dont have sample packs from their powders but its always solutions and IV material. i would not spend so much on one jar of something i still dunno how it effects me and i was to ask the representer here if its possible to put sample packs of their powders as well, thanks

[AlwaysLearning]

This site has some reference spectra: http://sdbs.db.aist....t_frame_top.cgi

However, most of the less common things are not in there. Also, most labs/companies make you pay for spectral libraries. It's the same for testing methods. Labs keep those private, and try to make money off selling them. Sigma Aldrich has some libraries, but they are expensive.

This is a simple explanation for reading them: http://web.chem.ucla.../tutorial33.pdf

Also, a more in-depth one: http://www3.uma.pt/j.../Teorica/IR.pdf

Thanks a bunch!

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

yeah i saw them but i was asking something different, how come they dont have sample packs from their powders but its always solutions and IV material. i would not spend so much on one jar of something i still dunno how it effects me and i was to ask the representer here if its possible to put sample packs of their powders as well, thanks

Trial sizes would be great, I agree.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[normalizing]

yeh i asked the representer if thats possible, but still no answer...

[Ceretropic]

yeh i asked the representer if thats possible, but still no answer...

 

Sorry for the delay, hazy.

 

I never really meant Ceretropic to be a powder vendor. So we never got around to making powder sample packs. With all the payment processing and banking issues we've had over the past year and a half, we kind of put product releases on hold for the time being. I'm still deciding what Ceretropic's future is going to look like. It was always meant more for bringing out advanced nootropic compounds.

 

Cheers!

[normalizing]

oh wow. it kind of strikes me as the future of powder city now with what you are saying. probably likely to close down eventually? that will suck since less and less reliable vendors out there :(