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Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Fasting, Nutrition, Nootropics

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#1 gill3362

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:23 AM


This was a mind-blowing tour de force through a range of topics we love here on Longecity. 

 

http://tim.blog/2017...g-and-fat-loss/

 

Definitely worth a listen. 

I wouldn't mind discussing some of her nutrition if anyone else is interested? And what do you thin about her theory that even black coffee breaks a fast? Lastly, is anyone here using a sauna for health reasons? Tracking that data?


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#2 xEva

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 04:14 PM

I like her interviews and overall high level of nerdiness.

 

Re fasting, I'm of the 'old school' and believe that only >10g of glucose breaks the fast. (but even then, if you don't eat anything else, you're back to where you were in a few  hours).  

 

I'm curious to see the papers that show that coffee, or whatever in minute quantities, "break the fast". Even if so, whatever may be happening, the question becomes, for how long is it happening and in how little time the system is back to where it was? 

 

And black coffee especially goes well in the first days and helps to get into fasting (the real thing that will last longer than a day).

 

Though it could matter during an IF daily routine that involves diurnal cycles, but it cannot apply to longer, 'real' fasts.

 

The term 'fasting' is applied loosely to just about everything,  including lower-calorie food intake, and yet not eating for half a day and not eating for several days, not to mention weeks, are vastly different things.


Edited by xEva, 10 May 2017 - 04:17 PM.

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#3 gill3362

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 06:14 AM

I like her interviews and overall high level of nerdiness.

 

Re fasting, I'm of the 'old school' and believe that only >10g of glucose breaks the fast. (but even then, if you don't eat anything else, you're back to where you were in a few  hours).  

 

I'm curious to see the papers that show that coffee, or whatever in minute quantities, "break the fast". Even if so, whatever may be happening, the question becomes, for how long is it happening and in how little time the system is back to where it was? 

 

And black coffee especially goes well in the first days and helps to get into fasting (the real thing that will last longer than a day).

 

Though it could matter during an IF daily routine that involves diurnal cycles, but it cannot apply to longer, 'real' fasts.

 

The term 'fasting' is applied loosely to just about everything,  including lower-calorie food intake, and yet not eating for half a day and not eating for several days, not to mention weeks, are vastly different things.

 

I enjoy almost everything she does as well. 

 

I agree with you on the longer fasts with coffee, my personal best is 13 days and I wouldn't have made it without black coffee and green tea. 

I also want to see these papers on the coffee, I didn't have a ton of time, but I couldn't dig them up in about 20 mins of half-hearted searching. If I had to hazard a guess, I can't imagine it kicks you out of ketosis/autophagy for too long at all. 

 

What are your thoughts on her time-restricted eating and circadian rhythm ideas? I currently consume all my calories in the evening (just because it makes the social life a bit easier) but she is recommending morning/lunch because it coincides with circadian rhythms. Have you tried this?



#4 xEva

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:28 PM

I agree with you on the longer fasts with coffee, my personal best is 13 days and I wouldn't have made it without black coffee and green tea. 

I also want to see these papers on the coffee, I didn't have a ton of time, but I couldn't dig them up in about 20 mins of half-hearted searching. If I had to hazard a guess, I can't imagine it kicks you out of ketosis/autophagy for too long at all. 
 
What are your thoughts on her time-restricted eating and circadian rhythm ideas? I currently consume all my calories in the evening (just because it makes the social life a bit easier) but she is recommending morning/lunch because it coincides with circadian rhythms. Have you tried this?


I'd like to hear more on your experience with black coffee and green tea on a fast. I find that coffee goes well only in the first 2-3 days, 5 at most. Green tea is better in this respect.  Could you drink both all 13 days?

I saw somewhere, long time ago, that coffee turns on the right metabolic pathways (right for fasting).  My experience is in line with this. In the first 2 days it definitely  suppresses appetite and, on the 3rd, helps to rise blood pressure (probably working on the adrenals, which, beyond a certain point, may not necessarily be a good thing -?). But I found that it may cause too high a heartbeat and have a sort of a backlash later in a fast. 

 

Re circadian rhythms, it sounds right, but I don't want it too be  right lol. I hate routine! But it so happened that for decades already I don't usually eat until after 3 pm, and often 6-7, but then I end up eating late at night. And in the morning all I have is black coffee (+cig -- don't shoot, I have just given up, again, and on my 2nd week am still struggling with a huge hole where my head used to be). 


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#5 sthira

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:26 AM

I fast quite often and can't seem to quit my iced coffee habit. Coffee does blunt my appetite and gets me motivated to get moving. I prefer combining longer bouts of fasting, say >10 days, with resting, doing not much of anything, but modern life rarely allows that, eh?

But if I overdo the coffee then my body certainly lets me know -- in the not so subtle forms of panic attacks and mitral valve prolapse episodes. I find there's a threshold for coffee while fasting, and if I cross it, aww fuck, time to suffer anxiety. Also, coming down off the caffeine rush while fasting can be intense.

As far as coffee or tea interrupting the benefits of fasting, I doubt they have much power to interfere. The body feels programmed to go into a deep states of rest when it stops being fed, and even if the mind gets jacked up on too much coffee, the body will work its mysterious and ancient magic anyway regardless of what we think and believe.
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#6 xEva

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:46 AM

Re when it's better to eat, morning or night, everyone is biased toward arguments that favor their own routine -- and I'm not exception :) Here is my take on it:

 

It's more natural to wake up in the morning, take it easy, hang out with tribesmen, form a small group and go hunting (or gathering berries and such). Those who gather, of course, nibble as they go -- well actually the same is true of hunters, too.  It's only in the evening when everyone gathers by the fire again. They cook, eat their only major meal of the day, hang out, tell stories and go to sleep.

 

Eating in the morning implies that food was left from yesterday. I doubt that was happening often. 

 

So, one can claim that eating in the evening is "more natural" 'cause it's the tribal way.

 

The argument for eating in the AM is that insulin is higher then. But how good is this argument? In the conditions when there is barely enough food, Insulin mainly regulates skeletal muscle uptake of glucose and gluconeogenesis in the liver. Lower Insulin in the PM may mean that glucose should be spared in order to feed the brain overnight -- and brain is very active during sleep.

 

 


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#7 sthira

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 02:11 AM

^ sounds plausible and prosaic enough for me. Sitting around the campfire flames chawing on bones sounds familiar. I keep in mind our ancestors probably led very short lives comparatively speaking. What, 15-25 years, then infections and trauma brought them down.

My MO with regard to eating is try to allow as much time as possible between meals. For me, that tends to be "lunch" or eating around 1 to 2 pm, leave the feeding window open a few hours, then go back to not eating. I tend to eat only once per day, and the time moves. If I eat late at night, which I sometimes do, my body is digesting the late meal rather than sleeping. Of course our modern sleep and feeding habits are nothing like our short-lived ancestors' -- who probably slept intermittently similar to how they ate intermittently.

Even so, I doubt adhering to ancestral patterns is gonna buy us much life extension.
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#8 xEva

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:07 AM

Re:

I keep in mind our ancestors probably led very short lives comparatively speaking. What, 15-25 years, then infections and trauma brought them down.

 
It's a common misconception. The studies of the indigenous people of Amazon show life expectancy, at birth, of 43 years. While it's true that childhood mortality has always been high, once you survived to puberty, you could reasonably expect to live to 50-60, though I imagine most will start dropping off in their 40s due to trauma and infection, as you say. Hey, even gorillas in the wild often live to 40!



#9 gill3362

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:05 AM

xEva, you said, "...But it so happened that for decades already I don't usually eat until after 3 pm, and often 6-7, but then I end up eating late at night."

Could you tell me what the long-term effects have proven to be for your? Body composition (muscle vs fat)? And how do your biomarkers look? 

 

As far as my experience with coffee and green tea, it sounds similar to sthira. It DEFINITELY suppresses appetite, which is a bonus, but if I go beyond 2-3 small cups, I can send myself spiralling into a couple hours of a jittery anxiety attack. 

I actually did this once when I was "airport fasting" (fasting while traveling through airports due to the lack of easy healthy food, and hey, I love any excuse to fast for a couple days). I was hanging out in an airport in Vienna crushing espresso and podcasts and had a borderline nervous break down from all the caffeine on an empty stomach. 

As far as green tea, I can honestly drink gallons of the stuff and it has no averse sides. I also drink a lot of gynostemma tea while fasting to give the AMPK activation an extra hit. 

 

On my 13 day go around, I drank a couple coffees everyday and probably on average 3 cups of green tea. No problem. 

 

In regards to the circadian rhythm stuff... ugh. I generally agree with Dr. Rhonda but that routine would just not work with my social life. I am living abroad at the moment and go out to eat with locals around 5:30-6 pm. 

In the end, I will have to settle for possibly a less optimal time restricted eating pattern in exchange for friends. haha. 

Sorry that was all pretty jumbled up. Feel free to ask anything I left out.



#10 xEva

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 08:20 AM

re:

Could you tell me what the long-term effects have proven to be for your? Body composition (muscle vs fat)?

 
Iduno, entrenched in a bad habit?

 

my adult weight has always been 128, though now that I'm getting old, that's fat for me. The muscle mass is definitely getting low. I even discovered recently that now I can float in fresh water, like a witch --- remember the times when the sure test was, if she drowns then oops she was not a witch, but if she can't drown, then we'll burn her at the stake, remember? Well, now I'm that witch that cannot drown. I know this can't be good, but I can't help enjoying swimming in the lakes even though I still remember how much I hated it when I was a kid, cause it was such a struggle to stay afloat. I hated fresh water for this. But now I can float in it, just like in sea water, with BMI of barely 19. Such body composition can't be good  :unsure: 

 

Couple of years ago my BMI shot to almost 22 and stayed there for a while, but that's the highest it's ever been. I'm back to 19.0 now and actually even lower. (I have slender bones though) I definitely have to up my gym time. 

 

I'm considering changing my routine and stop eating late. 


Edited by xEva, 12 May 2017 - 08:21 AM.

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#11 gill3362

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:29 AM

Re:
"The muscle mass is definitely getting low."

Are you tracking protein intake? My dad was having this problem and when we started tracking his protein, we discovered he wasn't getting nearly enough. Once corrected it came back fairly quickly and he is 60+. 

You don't want protein too high for longevity purposes but I found with Dad that anywhere from .5-.8 grams/lbs total body weight worked well and wasn't too high to stay mindful of longevity. 



#12 Oakman

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:01 PM

That was one hell of a podcast. It was nearly everything I've ever heard her discuss, crammed into one uber fast talking show that last way too long. Whew!  It was good to hear her discuss all this in one place, but a transcript would have been nice, she is very knowledgeable, but some of what she speaks about is fairly dense to comprehend while she's talking so fast. She must have had it all written down somewhere, but where?

 

As far as the IF, I'm currently doing something like what she describes. I esp. agree with her discussion of why early AM/NOON eating is best from a health and the circadian rhythm perspective, hormones, etc. And more so as I have the luxury of that being easy for me to do.

 

My schedule allows that wake and have 1/2 cup coffee and some supps at 6-7am, breakfast and hour later with ~15-25 g plant protein, lunch 12:30-2pm with ~25-30 g plant protein. I do cheat a bit later in the day, so I can consume a load of fruit/vegetable extracts in a smoothie about 5pm, like sulforaphane & broccoli extract, Lion's Mane, Bacopa, Mucuna pruriens, Ashwagandha, Chia & flax seed (oemga 3), he-shou-wu extract, and "Plant Head Greens" which are a combo of seed, sprouts, and mature herb/fruit source material. To make it drinkable, I mix in some blackberries & water typically.  It ends up as a sludge, while not tasting as you would think, rather fruity actually. And while it does technically break the fast period (of ~3pm-6am or 15 hrs), I wanted to separate these plants and herbs from everything food related. Altogether there's about 100 calories in the smoothie, best I can calculate.

 

I don't have any probelm gaining muscle strength doing this (I workout 4-6 day/wk anyway), weight loss is slow but continually down (BMI of 24, supposedly perfect for my age group), and energy is good. I'm trying to combine IF with CR to encourage autophagy, mitophagy at night and general biogenesis upon re-feeding in the am.

 


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#13 gill3362

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:00 AM

Re: Oakman

It sounds like you have it nailed down pretty well. 

 

And yes, it is a hell of a podcast, but if you click the link and scroll down a little ways, there is a list of links to almost everything she talked about so you can pick out what you didn't understand due to her speed or whatever piqued your interest.

 

I particularly found her collagen supplement and "designer" fish oil supplements to be interesting. 



#14 Forever21

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:18 PM

Does Rhonda recommend any supplement?



#15 LucasT

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:23 PM

I just heard about her recently. Still have to go through her podcast. However, I think that the TRF is not as clear cut as it is being told. Specially considering that a) most data is in rodents, b) TRF during the day (sleep phase in mice) is as effective as during the night (not sure 100% if completely true but if not, even TRF during this period was beneficial), c) we are exposed to a lot of different zeitgebers (and probably more and to more than we know) so the whole 6 to 6 period is less relevant in modern days, d) even Panda's study didn't find any correlation between feeding window time and weight, among others.

Re: coffee, I doubt its a significant factor against fasting. I think its better to define what is to "fast" or not based on the cellular metabolic state rather than if some enzymes get active or not.

I could expand and post some links when Im in my laptop as I don't like writing too much in my mobile.


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#16 Heisok

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:23 PM

LucasT, I would love to see you expand on your thoughts, and lead us to references. Great learning experience !


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#17 JR7

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:34 AM

Here is her interview with Dr Ruth Patterson where they first introduced keeping your feed window earlier in the day: 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=8qlrB84xp5g


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#18 gill3362

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 07:03 AM

Forever21:

She recommends many supplments. The two that caught my eye were a time-release curcumin/tumeric deal called meriva and then also this hydrolyzed collagen supplement that in studies they could actually trace in the body and indeed found a way into the joints and cartilage. 

 

LucasT:
I agree with you on the feeding window. It is interesting to look into but at the end of the day, I agree that we have to nail down what all is happening under the umbrella term "fasting". On the coffee thing... sorry, I just can't make that happen in my life. 
At the end of the day, you have to make it fit with your lifestyle. Keeping your window early might optimize the effects, but is not doable for a lot of people, myself included because my social life does not happen in the mornings. 
By the way, thanks for the new term "zeitgebers"... had to look that one up. haha

 

Heisok: 
I would like to see sources as well, I find all this super interesting. 



#19 Oakman

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:21 PM

Weight loss can be tied to when, not just what, you eat

 

More and more research is suggesting that when you eat may be just as important as what you eat. And it is very closely tied to the complex science of circadian rhythms.

 

  • The research on front-loading food
  • Circadian rhythms: the 'metabolic magic'
  • Breakfast-skippers beware
  • Tips for eating in sync with circadian rhythms


#20 LucasT

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:54 PM

LucasT, I would love to see you expand on your thoughts, and lead us to references. Great learning experience !

 

I will!

 

I would like to watch the relevant podcasts first and I have more time in the weekend, so I will update it then!

 

LucasT:

I agree with you on the feeding window. It is interesting to look into but at the end of the day, I agree that we have to nail down what all is happening under the umbrella term "fasting". On the coffee thing... sorry, I just can't make that happen in my life. 
At the end of the day, you have to make it fit with your lifestyle. Keeping your window early might optimize the effects, but is not doable for a lot of people, myself included because my social life does not happen in the mornings. 
By the way, thanks for the new term "zeitgebers"... had to look that one up. haha

 

Well Im obviously biased towards coffee as Im addicted to it :-D

 

Im really skeptical that, all things considered, it makes such a big impact (morning vs. evening). Specially if your control is ad libitum. I have yet to see (hopefully someone is trying this) any study comparing TRF in the evening vs. morning. From Panda's research, I think this paper is relevant to its application and findings:

 


A Smartphone App Reveals Erratic Diurnal Eating Patterns in Humans that Can Be Modulated for Health Benefits

 

A couple of quotes and findings from it (my comments in red):

 

"The median daily eating duration was 14 hr 45 min, and only 9.7% of the subjects had a daily eating duration <12 hr (Figure 4F) long. The weak correlation (r2 = 0.017) between the eating duration and BMI could be due to the limited sample size, the heterogeneity of the participants in terms of gender and age, and the fact that the eating pattern recorded in the monitoring period is a short-term snapshot of a person’s long-term diet-related behaviors."

 

So there was no relationship between eating duration and BMI.

 

"We tested if reducing the eating duration and metabolic jetlag associated with weekday/weekend differences in a subset of individuals would lead to reduction in body weight. We recruited 8 individuals with >14 hr eating duration for a 16-week pilot intervention study, such that each individual’s own baseline data served as the control (Figure 5A) condition."

 

"Because in rodents a daily eating period of up to 12 hr improves metabolic fitness (Chaix et al., 2014), the participants were requested to reduce their caloric-containing eating duration to a self-selected window of 10–12 hr and to consistently follow this duration during both weekdays and weekends so that the metabolic jetlag could be minimized. No overt suggestion concerning nutrition quality, quantity, or caloric content was provided. The individuals continued logging their food pictures using the same app as used in the baseline period for the next 16 weeks and also received a weekly summary of their feedograms and daily eating duration."

 

So he tested TRF in people with a long fasting window. Importantly, they also reduced social jetlag, so you have that the real intervention was:

- Reduce eating window to 10-12 hours

- Keep window constant (this is key)

 

What happened?

 

"All subjects reduced their eating duration (average reduction: 4 hr 35 min; 95% CI: 3 hr 30 min–5 hr 40 min; p < 0.001), and their weekday/weekend metabolic jetlag was also reduced to <1 hr (Figures 5B and 5C). The participants showed a reduction in total body weight (average loss 3.27 kg; 95% CI: 0.9081–5.624 kg) and, accordingly, excess body weight (Figures 5D and 5E, Table S3) and BMI (average reduction 1.15 kg/m2; 95% CI: 0.3247–1.980 kg/m2). In a subjective self-assessment of sleep satisfaction, hunger at bedtime, and energy level (in the mornings, and overall over the past few days), statistically significant improvement was observed (Figure 5F). All participants voluntarily expressed an interest in continuing unsupervised with the 10–11 hr time-restricted eating regimen after the conclusion of the 16-week supervised intervention. After 36 weeks (1 year since the intervention began), the participants maintained weight loss and sleep improvement and felt more energetic (Figures 5D–5F, Table S3)."

 

It worked! However...

 

"Although the participants were not overtly asked to change nutrition quality or quantity, reducing the eating duration led to reduced estimated caloric intake. Unlike mice, where reducing the eating duration to ∼10 hr does not alter total caloric intake (Hatori et al., 2012), our human intervention cohort reduced the estimated daily caloric intake (average reduction 20.26%; 95% CI 4.92%–35.6%; paired t test p < 0.05)."

 

So reduced eating window = reduced caloric intake. If you reduce on average 20% calories per day, you should get the seen results. What is nice is that, similar to low-carbohydrate diets, caloric restriction was spontaneous. But to conclude anything from this is that, again, calorie restriction works.

 

"Nevertheless, if time restriction under free-living condition inadvertently leads to caloric reduction, TRF as a method to reduce caloric intake is a more attractive option, as individuals, caregivers, case managers, physicians, and scientists do not have to adopt expensive and laborious methods to accurately track caloric count. Hence, irrespective of mechanism, time restriction offers an effective approach to improve health."

 

Hopefully we get soon new research in this area.

 

More food for thought:

 

Timed high-fat diet resets circadian metabolism and prevents obesity

 

"To examine the effect of timed HF feeding (RF-HF) on circadian metabolism and obesity, mice were fed regular chow for 4 h every day at the same time for 18 wk and were compared with mice fed a timed LF diet (RF-LF) and mice fed an HF diet AL (AL-HF)."

 

"The RF group was given food between zeitgeber time 4 and 8 (zeitgeber time 0 is the time of lights on)." [Mice night = lights on; so they feed the mice in an extreme late night eating equivalent to humans]

 

"Compared with mice fed the HF diet ad libitum, the timed HF diet restored the expression phase of the clock genes Clock and Cry1 and phase-advanced Per1, Per2, Cry2, Bmal1, Rorα, and Rev-erbα. Although timed HF-diet-fed mice consumed the same amount of calories as ad libitum low-fat diet-fed mice, they showed 12% reduced body weight, 21% reduced cholesterol levels, and 1.4-fold increased insulin sensitivity. Compared with the HF diet ad libitum, the timed HF diet led to 18% lower body weight, 30% decreased cholesterol levels, 10% reduced TNF-α levels, and 3.7-fold improved insulin sensitivity. Timed HF-diet-fed mice exhibited a better satiated and less stressed phenotype of 25% lower ghrelin and 53% lower corticosterone levels compared with mice fed the timed low-fat diet."

 

"Thus, timed feeding is dominant (18,,20) and can rectify and/or advance the shifts induced by an HF diet. It was recently reported that mice fed an HF diet during the light phase gain significantly more weight than mice fed only during the dark period (27). Our results emphasize the importance of timed feeding of 4 h vs. food availability of 12 h. Indeed, we have recently shown the benefits in timed vs. ad libitum feeding (17)."

 

As mentioned here:

 

"Time-restricted feeding regimen improves CREB, mTOR, and AMPK pathway function and oscillations in expression of circadian core clock and output genes (Hatori et al., 2012 ;  Sherman et al., 2012). It should be noted that both studies applied time-restricted high-fat diet, yet at complete different times throughout the day. The former limited the food availability to 8 hr during the dark phase, whereas, in the latter, food was provided for 4 hr during the light phase. Thus, it is conceivable that the key factor is the time restriction from food per se, rather than its occurrence at a specific circadian time."

 

"Conceivably, time-restricted feeding generates sharp feeding-fasting cycles, which consolidate circadian rhythmicity in gene expression and circadian activation of various metabolic pathways. This is because clocks in most peripheral organs readily respond to feeding cycles, and feeding time can shift their phase. Upon several days of time-restricted feeding, food availability and the endogenous clocks are aligned, irrespectively on whether the food is provided during the dark or the light phase. Hence, high-fat diet disrupts circadian rhythmicity through dampening of feeding-fasting cycles that serve as an extremely potent zeitgeber for peripheral clocks."

 

I think that most evidence points towards TRF during the active phase. If you work until 7-8pm and are still moving, doing things, etc, is a different scenario than someone who works until 4pm and can then rest. This is specially important given that we are bombarded with light of different wavelengths and other cues after 6pm (I dont know anyone who is in complete darkness or not exposed to some amount of light after 6pm. Additionally, most people still move around and are active until later in the evening).

 

Finally, if you weight train, this completely changes everything. As most people should weight train, the importance of eating during a specific period of the active phase vs. the importance of a feeding-fasting cycle is greatly reduced.

 

Might edit later :-D


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#21 Forever21

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:08 PM

Forever21:

She recommends many supplments. The two that caught my eye were a time-release curcumin/tumeric deal called meriva and then also this hydrolyzed collagen supplement that in studies they could actually trace in the body and indeed found a way into the joints and cartilage. 

 

 

First, collagen supplement you linked, that's what I use daily with my matcha latte (you asked me about it in another thread).

 

Second, thanks for the curcumin post. I just purchased it on iHerb. When you say she recommends many supplements, where can you find it? Is there a one page post she made somewhere on the internets? 


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#22 Heisok

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:43 PM

Forever21, Just an FYI, if I remember correctly, but will check back at some point due to the length of the presentation, and my memory .

 

She might have said the Meriva is used intermittently, as needed. I have found it to be very good intermittently  for body aches and pains. She also mentioned using 3 gms of Lion's Mane intermittently as needed for the type of mental activity. Add in D3 which she uses regularly, which I think that she did professional work on about it's importance. Niagen 125 mgs , and Sulforaphane.



#23 Forever21

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:58 PM

Forever21, Just an FYI, if I remember correctly, but will check back at some point due to the length of the presentation, and my memory .

 

She might have said the Meriva is used intermittently, as needed. I have found it to be very good intermittently  for body aches and pains. She also mentioned using 3 gms of Lion's Mane intermittently as needed for the type of mental activity. Add in D3 which she uses regularly, which I think that she did professional work on about it's importance. Niagen 125 mgs , and Sulforaphane.

 

What's her Sulforaphane source? Do you know? 

 

Thx for the rest of the recomm



#24 Heisok

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 08:04 PM

Her sulforophane sources are food based from broccoli sprouts to cruciferous vegetables served with mustard. The subject has been discussed ad infinitum here on longecity.  Here is my problem now and in the past. When I try to summarize another's comments, I often get it a little wrong.

 

If you do not have the time to listen to the whole presentation, my advice is to take maybe 1/2 hour to listen to the presentation starting at 61 minutes. She goes into detail about nootropics , nutrients , foods, supplements and more starting there.


Edited by Heisok, 19 May 2017 - 09:03 PM.


#25 LucasT

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:10 AM

Weight loss can be tied to when, not just what, you eat

 

More and more research is suggesting that when you eat may be just as important as what you eat. And it is very closely tied to the complex science of circadian rhythms.

 

  • The research on front-loading food
  • Circadian rhythms: the 'metabolic magic'
  • Breakfast-skippers beware
  • Tips for eating in sync with circadian rhythms

 

 

Breakfast-skippers beware

 

 

Eating compared to skipping breakfast has no discernible benefit for obesity-related anthropometrics: systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.

 

"Conclusions Current randomized evidence does not support the general recommendation to eat and not skip breakfast for obesity-related anthropometric outcomes."

 

:-D  :-D 



#26 Oakman

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:14 PM

 

Weight loss can be tied to when, not just what, you eat

 

More and more research is suggesting that when you eat may be just as important as what you eat. And it is very closely tied to the complex science of circadian rhythms.

 

  • The research on front-loading food
  • Circadian rhythms: the 'metabolic magic'
  • Breakfast-skippers beware
  • Tips for eating in sync with circadian rhythms

 

 

Breakfast-skippers beware

 

 

Eating compared to skipping breakfast has no discernible benefit for obesity-related anthropometrics: systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.

 

"Conclusions Current randomized evidence does not support the general recommendation to eat and not skip breakfast for obesity-related anthropometric outcomes."

 

:-D  :-D 

 

 

Sorry, not a valid comparison, not talking about the same thing....

 

""I started noticing a common pattern where my patients were so good with restricting their calories during the day, but in the late afternoon and evening, they fell apart," said Tamara Duker Freuman, a nutritionist who has helped hundreds of people lose weight over the past decade on a meal-timing based plan she describes as the "circadian-synced diet."

"It was the ongoing grazing into the night. ... That's what kept undermining them. They often thought they were binge eaters ... but in reality, they were just really hungry.

"If they just ate a little more at breakfast and lunch, if they just added a few hundred extra calories in the morning, they would get their eating under control and lose weight," she said."



#27 mccoy

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:34 PM

RE. late eating: I've always found that if I don't wait 2-3 hours after the meal before going to sleep, that sleep won't be restful. Probably, people who have a fast digestion and eat sparingly or not too much can wait a short time. I also find that one meal a day is not practical. My recent optimum is: 

 

  1. cacao powder in hot water in the morning, with some honey
  2. fresh fruit after 3 hours
  3. Muesli soaked in soymilk 1 hour after fruit (fruit alone is rapidly digested and won't bloat me if together with other food)
  4. Dinner at night, vegetables+grains+legumes+nuts, depends on when I'm back home. Presently from 6 to 9 pm. 

The above is just an example to show what an individual schedule is. Everyone is different, although I support Ruth Patterson's view that eating too much too late may be disruptive to sleep and health. But there is no way I could eat the above in a short time window.

 

Some people may be so hungry in the morning to eat a substantial breakfast. Others, like myself, are never hungry when they wake up. Lack of hunger in the morning may be related to GH secretion at dawn to prevent too low a serum glucose, as far as I understand . Some people may have a strong GH emission, other may have it weaker.

 

My bottom line: eating schedules are so variable according to individual variability and work/social committments that probably there cannot be a best rule for everyone.


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#28 LucasT

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 03:04 PM

 

 

Weight loss can be tied to when, not just what, you eat

 

More and more research is suggesting that when you eat may be just as important as what you eat. And it is very closely tied to the complex science of circadian rhythms.

 

  • The research on front-loading food
  • Circadian rhythms: the 'metabolic magic'
  • Breakfast-skippers beware
  • Tips for eating in sync with circadian rhythms

 

 

Breakfast-skippers beware

 

 

Eating compared to skipping breakfast has no discernible benefit for obesity-related anthropometrics: systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.

 

"Conclusions Current randomized evidence does not support the general recommendation to eat and not skip breakfast for obesity-related anthropometric outcomes."

 

:-D  :-D 

 

 

Sorry, not a valid comparison, not talking about the same thing....

 

""I started noticing a common pattern where my patients were so good with restricting their calories during the day, but in the late afternoon and evening, they fell apart," said Tamara Duker Freuman, a nutritionist who has helped hundreds of people lose weight over the past decade on a meal-timing based plan she describes as the "circadian-synced diet."

"It was the ongoing grazing into the night. ... That's what kept undermining them. They often thought they were binge eaters ... but in reality, they were just really hungry.

"If they just ate a little more at breakfast and lunch, if they just added a few hundred extra calories in the morning, they would get their eating under control and lose weight," she said."

 

 

Of course they are talking about the same. There is no causal relationship between skipping breakfast and weight gain, BMI, etc. There is no magic. What she is saying is that the problem was they overate at night. So if you overeat, you gain weight (or you fail to lose the weight). If you are too hungry in the night when you eat less during the day, then eat more during the day! Its not a universal phenomenon (see below). Also, there are differences between habitual breakfast eaters and skippers, which also has to be taken into account when seeing studies that compare eating and skipping breakfast. 

 

Bottom line, if you are hungry during the night and binge, then you should evaluate if your timing and overall food intake is adequate. If not, there is no reason to eat breakfast (that meaning eating something when you wake up). That is why the whole eating breakfast issue should be tailored to the person. 

 

Some people may be so hungry in the morning to eat a substantial breakfast. Others, like myself, are never hungry when they wake up. Lack of hunger in the morning may be related to GH secretion at dawn to prevent too low a serum glucose, as far as I understand . Some people may have a strong GH emission, other may have it weaker.

 

My bottom line: eating schedules are so variable according to individual variability and work/social committments that probably there cannot be a best rule for everyone.

 

Agree. In the end, the most important thing is to not eat (or overeat) after midnight. I also prefer to eat at least 2-3 hours before bed, but because of schedule, my last meal is always about 1 hour before. 


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#29 Hebbeh

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 05:33 PM

http://suppversity.b...keeps-lean.html

 

http://suppversity.b...-worst-new.html

 

http://suppversity.b...t-skipping.html

 

http://www.ergo-log....that-works.html


Edited by Hebbeh, 20 May 2017 - 05:35 PM.

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#30 Forever21

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 04:23 PM

She takes Lion's Mane only when she has to do mentally demanding tasks...

 

Looks like she needs to spend some time at LongeCIty and learn things.


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