20 replies to this topic

[floweryriddle]

After years of not doing much I am finally taking better care of my skin. One area in particular that bugs me a lot is the area under my eyes. 

 

Here's a picture from a few months ago:

 

I am mainly talking about the wrinkles directly under the eye area and the darker areas under them.

I am using a eye cream for a few months now and started supplementing Vitamin K2 which seems to have lightened the dark areas a little bit

 

Here's a picture from today:

 

Now after reading a bunch about Retin-A here, I decided to order two tubes in 0.1 and 0.05 for general wrinkle battling. I was wondering if applying it for these cases would help. The way I understand it is that Retin-A stimulates production of elastin and collagen which sounds like it could make the skin thicker and thus lightening the darks. 

 

And if not, is there anything else that will? Or is a injection of some kind my only hope of making the skin here look less bad? 

 

Other thing I started supplementing from last week is Hydrolyzed collagen and 200mg of hyaluronic acid (Doctors Best)

[Qowpel]

I have genetic under eye subcutaneous fat loss. Runs in the family.... This creates a shadowy appearance which has less to do with ACTUAL skin discoloration.got tired of being called sir in my early 20s and being told I looked tired. Got half a syringe of restykane under each eye for a total of 700 bucks. It is a year later and I still have about 20 percent correction. Stuff lasts a long time. 700 WELL spent.

[floweryriddle]

Got half a syringe of restykane under each eye for a total of 700 bucks. It is a year later and I still have about 20 percent correction. 

 

Yeah, something like this is my plan as well if I can't find any other way to correct it. Do you happen to have a picture of before and after of your eye area? For comparison

[ta5]

I came across this recently about how hypothyroid can affect facial puffiness. The pictures here before and after thyroid treatment are dramatic:

http://180degreeheal...pothyroid-face/

 

 

 

 

[Qowpel]

Stop using retin a near your eyes. There is concern that retain can cause subcutaneous fat loss that is permanent. You already have loss of fat under the eyes. Use retin a on the lower half of the face and ce ferulic serum elsewhere. If you cause loss of subcutaneous fat under the eyes or upper cheeks you are screwed. . . It does not happen with most retin a patients but did for me. Use completely away from the eyes and upper cheeks and simply use a vitamin c serum there to get a comparable collagen production there... good luck.

[Qowpel]

I came across this recently about how hypothyroid can affect facial puffiness. The pictures here before and after thyroid treatment are dramatic:
http://180degreeheal...pothyroid-face/

Good post buddy. My mom also has low thyroid but I got my blood work that showed I am in the normal range. Mind you llok at how in the pictures so many of the before photo people have facial edema that absolutely affects the malar part of the face, causing tell tale malar edema, which look like a ridge across the cheek. I have had this for years and.not when fasting it never goes away but does reduce in size likely due to less water retention
Notice in the afters how signs of malar edema for those who had it, is at the very least cut in half and.for some completely gone. I am going to look back into checking my thyroid again as malar edema is the worst facial deformity I have which accentuate the lower cheek making it look saggy. I am only 25 and have had these since I was a child so I am hoping some thyroid help could help these along. Also, I hate how my body temperature changes so much even when not fasting (which if I am not mistaken is supposed to slow your thyroid functioning down which supposedly is a sign you are undergoing autophagy).

Have a great day guys!

[aconita]

Stay away from retin a, check out the topical methylene blue treads instead (one here and the other one in "supplements") which might be a much better and safer treatment.

 

I don't think Dvstr issue is thyroid related, actually there is little issue if any at all...

 

Eyebrows aren't well visible in the pictures but hypothyroidism leads to sparse or missing outer eyebrows, which doesn't seem the case here, also there isn't eyes puffiness.

 

Easiest way to check thyroid is basal temperature and sensitivity to cold (cold extremities, fear of cold), blood test are very inaccurate unless there is a very marked pathological condition.  

 

Iodine load urine test is the most accurate test, likely only available in a couple of labs in US.

[floweryriddle]

Stop using retin a near your eyes. There is concern that retain can cause subcutaneous fat loss that is permanent. You already have loss of fat under the eyes. Use retin a on the lower half of the face and ce ferulic serum elsewhere. If you cause loss of subcutaneous fat under the eyes or upper cheeks you are screwed. . . It does not happen with most retin a patients but did for me. Use completely away from the eyes and upper cheeks and simply use a vitamin c serum there to get a comparable collagen production there... good luck.

Thanks for the advise! I have read your thread ok subcutaneous fat loss with retin-a but the opinions seem very split on it. I bought the retin-a after a bunch of research especially for under eye treatment so this comes to a surprise.

I found some other reports of people noticing fat loss and read that vitamin a can have effects in fat regulation. Definitely interesting and sounds like a possibility.

I looked into Vitamin c serums and found this one here with HA: https://www.amazon.c...um instanatural
Any opinions on it?

 

Also you mentioned using Retin-A for lower half of the face. Another reason I bought it was for the forehead area. Would you say that's not good either? 

Edited by dvstr, 20 June 2017 - 01:53 AM.

[floweryriddle]

Stay away from retin a, check out the topical methylene blue treads instead (one here and the other one in "supplements") which might be a much better and safer treatment.

 

I don't think Dvstr issue is thyroid related, actually there is little issue if any at all...

 

Eyebrows aren't well visible in the pictures but hypothyroidism leads to sparse or missing outer eyebrows, which doesn't seem the case here, also there isn't eyes puffiness.

 

Easiest way to check thyroid is basal temperature and sensitivity to cold (cold extremities, fear of cold), blood test are very inaccurate unless there is a very marked pathological condition.  

 

Iodine load urine test is the most accurate test, likely only available in a couple of labs in US.

 

I am participating in the MB threads and do plan on giving it a try but I have no experience in making skin products so I'd like to tackle that when I'm with more time. I also saw that one post in one of these thread linked to http://www.sharkvet....ProId=61&lng=En. Any opinions on it? 

 

I have a blood check upcoming and will ask for thyroid check at the same time. 

 

 

Besides that, now with Retin-A maybe being not a good idea, is there anything else you can recommend for my case? 

Edited by dvstr, 20 June 2017 - 01:51 AM.

[aconita]

I also saw that one post in one of these thread linked to http://www.sharkvet....ProId=61&lng=En. Any opinions on it?

 

The product isn't for our scope, it is way too concentrated, it will stain blue quite badly and according to the mentioned study will inhibit skin thickening.

 

In the dedicated treads I provided very easy to follow instructions about how to make a methylene blue gel or cream, it is really easy and straightforward.

 

Strive for an healthy lifestyle and nutrition, those are by far the most effective ways to stay healthy, slow down aging and look good.

[Ben]

I have this as well. What is going on here? Is it pigmentation or thinning of the skin which then reveals blood vessels?

[floweryriddle]

I have ordered some Vitamin C serum for testing.

 

I did some more research on Retin-A, and good that I asked here because apparently a lot of people permanently destroyed their under eye area with it. There are some success stories but I'm not gonna take the risk of ruining my eye area for good. 

 

I am striving for a healthier lifestyle but I believe that this area in particular is already too late to recover completely naturally. 

Are there some other things I can try to effectively make things better before injecting some solution? 

 

Also regarding the Retin-A, what are some areas I CAN safely apply it in without risking damage? 

[Kturner1990]

I have genetic under eye subcutaneous fat loss. Runs in the family.... This creates a shadowy appearance which has less to do with ACTUAL skin discoloration.got tired of being called sir in my early 20s and being told I looked tired. Got half a syringe of restykane under each eye for a total of 700 bucks. It is a year later and I still have about 20 percent correction. Stuff lasts a long time. 700 WELL spent.

Fillers are the best treatment I've seen for that area too (and the face in general0. realself.com has a good thread about different fillers and before and after pictures. scary though to see the ones who went to someone without enough experience and are left with droops and bumps. Make sure you find someone who knows what they are doing. best money I've ever spent too. Wish it lasted longer. I learned how to inject them myself and just order it from Sweden, and its about 600.00 cheaper that way depending on which filler you purchase. Wouldn't advise that for everyone though. Again if you don't know what you're doing you'll be left with bumps or blue undertones to your skin. 

[Kturner1990]

Stop using retin a near your eyes. There is concern that retain can cause subcutaneous fat loss that is permanent. You already have loss of fat under the eyes. Use retin a on the lower half of the face and ce ferulic serum elsewhere. If you cause loss of subcutaneous fat under the eyes or upper cheeks you are screwed. . . It does not happen with most retin a patients but did for me. Use completely away from the eyes and upper cheeks and simply use a vitamin c serum there to get a comparable collagen production there... good luck.

Agreed. The skin around the eyes is too thin and its been known to decrease sub-q fat. Whatever wrinkle cream you use just make sure you continuously use it. I bought a ''stem cell" one, and not sure of the research behind the ingredients, or if it would be considered legit, but it does work. I just have to use it everyday. If i stop using it the wrinkles come back. I had to use it for a good 4 weeks to notice also. That was something I didn't realize at first, and I assumed you could use it for a few weeks and then be done.  I also use a Vit C powder f/ Dermalogica called Map-15 regenerator which works well. It was pretty expensive and I'm relatively certain its just Vit C powder and you can get it cheaper on Amazon or somewhere else. I mix it in with my moisturizer that contains beta glucan; retinol-A; vitamin E; CoQ10; S.O.D., melatonin, DHEA, and vitamin D3  at night sometimes. The only thing I dislike about it is that it works so well it gets my skin to it's natural color, which is super pale, so I'd look like a ghost if I used it everyday.  I'm curious as to what Retin-a would do on someone who is African American? Id assume it would actually be okay for them to use it under the eyes because their skin in general seems thicker and more vibrant. Their stratum corneum and lipids in the epidermis are relatively thicker. I doubt they would need to use it until very late in life because they have great skin and don't seem to get wrinkles anyway. I also wonder if injecting melanotan would help prevent wrinkles? isn't it the melanin that helps protect your skin in the first place? I need to look into it more. I have really thin skin around my eyes and whole face in general which makes my dark circles stick out immensely. The only thing that has completely fixed it was dermal fillers, but you have to get a touch up every once in awhile which can get expensive unless you do it yourself. 

[bosharpe]

 

Stop using retin a near your eyes. There is concern that retain can cause subcutaneous fat loss that is permanent. You already have loss of fat under the eyes. Use retin a on the lower half of the face and ce ferulic serum elsewhere. If you cause loss of subcutaneous fat under the eyes or upper cheeks you are screwed. . . It does not happen with most retin a patients but did for me. Use completely away from the eyes and upper cheeks and simply use a vitamin c serum there to get a comparable collagen production there... good luck.

Agreed. The skin around the eyes is too thin and its been known to decrease sub-q fat. Whatever wrinkle cream you use just make sure you continuously use it. I bought a ''stem cell" one, and not sure of the research behind the ingredients, or if it would be considered legit, but it does work. I just have to use it everyday. If i stop using it the wrinkles come back. I had to use it for a good 4 weeks to notice also. That was something I didn't realize at first, and I assumed you could use it for a few weeks and then be done.  I also use a Vit C powder f/ Dermalogica called Map-15 regenerator which works well. It was pretty expensive and I'm relatively certain its just Vit C powder and you can get it cheaper on Amazon or somewhere else. I mix it in with my moisturizer that contains beta glucan; retinol-A; vitamin E; CoQ10; S.O.D., melatonin, DHEA, and vitamin D3  at night sometimes. The only thing I dislike about it is that it works so well it gets my skin to it's natural color, which is super pale, so I'd look like a ghost if I used it everyday.  I'm curious as to what Retin-a would do on someone who is African American? Id assume it would actually be okay for them to use it under the eyes because their skin in general seems thicker and more vibrant. Their stratum corneum and lipids in the epidermis are relatively thicker. I doubt they would need to use it until very late in life because they have great skin and don't seem to get wrinkles anyway. I also wonder if injecting melanotan would help prevent wrinkles? isn't it the melanin that helps protect your skin in the first place? I need to look into it more. I have really thin skin around my eyes and whole face in general which makes my dark circles stick out immensely. The only thing that has completely fixed it was dermal fillers, but you have to get a touch up every once in awhile which can get expensive unless you do it yourself. 

 

 

How did you go about learning about the injection technique?

[glamgirlajjk]

I have been using retin-a micro under my eyes for years and as long as I don't apply too much and add a moisturizer on top, I have no issues with it at all. I'm almost 40 and have no lines/wrinkles around my eyes so I guess it has been working. But as with all skin care products/ingredients, not everyone has the same reactions and effects.

[Kturner1990]

 

 

Stop using retin a near your eyes. There is concern that retain can cause subcutaneous fat loss that is permanent. You already have loss of fat under the eyes. Use retin a on the lower half of the face and ce ferulic serum elsewhere. If you cause loss of subcutaneous fat under the eyes or upper cheeks you are screwed. . . It does not happen with most retin a patients but did for me. Use completely away from the eyes and upper cheeks and simply use a vitamin c serum there to get a comparable collagen production there... good luck.

Agreed. The skin around the eyes is too thin and its been known to decrease sub-q fat. Whatever wrinkle cream you use just make sure you continuously use it. I bought a ''stem cell" one, and not sure of the research behind the ingredients, or if it would be considered legit, but it does work. I just have to use it everyday. If i stop using it the wrinkles come back. I had to use it for a good 4 weeks to notice also. That was something I didn't realize at first, and I assumed you could use it for a few weeks and then be done.  I also use a Vit C powder f/ Dermalogica called Map-15 regenerator which works well. It was pretty expensive and I'm relatively certain its just Vit C powder and you can get it cheaper on Amazon or somewhere else. I mix it in with my moisturizer that contains beta glucan; retinol-A; vitamin E; CoQ10; S.O.D., melatonin, DHEA, and vitamin D3  at night sometimes. The only thing I dislike about it is that it works so well it gets my skin to it's natural color, which is super pale, so I'd look like a ghost if I used it everyday.  I'm curious as to what Retin-a would do on someone who is African American? Id assume it would actually be okay for them to use it under the eyes because their skin in general seems thicker and more vibrant. Their stratum corneum and lipids in the epidermis are relatively thicker. I doubt they would need to use it until very late in life because they have great skin and don't seem to get wrinkles anyway. I also wonder if injecting melanotan would help prevent wrinkles? isn't it the melanin that helps protect your skin in the first place? I need to look into it more. I have really thin skin around my eyes and whole face in general which makes my dark circles stick out immensely. The only thing that has completely fixed it was dermal fillers, but you have to get a touch up every once in awhile which can get expensive unless you do it yourself. 

 

 

How did you go about learning about the injection technique?

 

I am a nurse so I already knew general injection methods and info, but I also bought an instruction book from Amazon that came with a dvd. I wanted to make sure I had all the depths, needle sizes, filler types, and locations correct. Also practiced with syringe of normal saline. no sterile water because it burns. They also have online courses you can take. Id never do my eye area or temples though because they are such delicate areas, and can be easily disfigured. I'm leaving those to the professionals until I get more experience. I am trying to find a course now that teaches the blunt cannula method opposed to a needle. It's supposed to eliminate bruising.

[snas]

I have ordered some Vitamin C serum for testing.

 

I did some more research on Retin-A, and good that I asked here because apparently a lot of people permanently destroyed their under eye area with it. There are some success stories but I'm not gonna take the risk of ruining my eye area for good. 

 

I am striving for a healthier lifestyle but I believe that this area in particular is already too late to recover completely naturally. 

Are there some other things I can try to effectively make things better before injecting some solution? 

 

Also regarding the Retin-A, what are some areas I CAN safely apply it in without risking damage? 

Will you be applying the Vitamin C Serm Directly under your eyes? 

[floweryriddle]

 

I have ordered some Vitamin C serum for testing.

 

I did some more research on Retin-A, and good that I asked here because apparently a lot of people permanently destroyed their under eye area with it. There are some success stories but I'm not gonna take the risk of ruining my eye area for good. 

 

I am striving for a healthier lifestyle but I believe that this area in particular is already too late to recover completely naturally. 

Are there some other things I can try to effectively make things better before injecting some solution? 

 

Also regarding the Retin-A, what are some areas I CAN safely apply it in without risking damage? 

Will you be applying the Vitamin C Serm Directly under your eyes? 

 

That was my plan, yes. Is this something I shouldn't be doing? 

[snas]

Well I dunno I am looking for a solution to my issue that is the same as yours so I might give it a shot.

[floweryriddle]

Well I dunno I am looking for a solution to my issue that is the same as yours so I might give it a shot.

Ah! In that case I would definitely give C E ferulic a try if you can afford it. There are a few off brands that change the formulation a bit to not infringe on the patent and sell a lot cheaper.

Also check this Reddit post: https://www.reddit.c...55P&sh=34f0fb67

My current routine is

Morning:
- Cleanse with a vitamin c based cleanser
- Use a plant stem cell based eye Creme (I’m using one from baebody)
- Apply sunscreen
- Supplement K2 & HA (+occasionally collagen)

Evening:
- Cleanse
- Use a sheet mask all few days
- Massage Vitamin C serum into under eyes area
- Apply Retin-A on less dangerous areas
- Wait until both dried in and moisturize if needed (or if the mask I’m using that day is moisturizing enough, I’ll just use it after retin-a).

I am planning to swap vit c with the c e ferulic serum once it’s here and hope to add methylene blue next month once i find the time to make a Creme.


But in all honesty I don’t think this area is “solveable”. Filler might be our only hope and I am planning on giving it a try “soon”.

Edited by dvstr, 15 July 2017 - 12:27 AM.