17 replies to this topic

[Patrisha]

Hey, so,all of this that is name of my thread are things that I have.I'm fighting with motivation,have 0 concentration,daydreaming,that's why I can't concetrate,I can for a minute and than I slip to dreaming,procrastination,no energy,opsesssive thoughts,no self-confidence,so want to socialize,but then I don't talk,and it makes me tired,always dark thoughts..Can anybody recommend good stuck,I would be really greatfull,I'm fighting with this for many years.I don't like medication,so I would like first to try some nootropics first.Thanks in advance.This forum is amazing,I'm reading it for a while .Sorry for my English

[Patrisha]

Also very bad memory,long term and short term..

[Benko]

1.  Aerobic exercise leaves one more relaxed and is a good place to start.

 

2.  There are certain kinds of meditation which can help leave one more relaxed and less scattered.  If you PM me your e-mail address, I can send you the directions.  NOTE; there are many many kinds of meditation and some are more helpful than others.

 

3.  I have some of those tendencies and while many people love adraninil/modaninil it did not help me in those ways.  There is one racetam which I think did make me more focused and help me get more things done.  It was pramecetam.  Note: I tried all this ages ago and I don't remember details (though they are probably posed on this forum in another screen name since I didn't remember what my old one was).  Piracetam did nothing for me.  

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

What you're describing sounds like the same disease I have, with the same co-morbidities, CAUSED by the disease:

 

Sluggish Cognitive Tempo.

 

 

Read more about it here:

 

https://en.wikipedia...cognitive_tempo

 

 

If you ever want relief from these symptoms, I'm afraid that NONE of the nootropics have much of an effect - much like they have little effect on ADHD. SCT is a pervasive developmental disorder, much like ADHD or Autism - unlike ADHD however, the key-region affected in the brain is in the back of the head, not the front - the Superior Parietal Lobe (SPL) have recently, through advanced neuroimaging studies, been found to have several physical abnormalities.

 

The SPL is a region of the brain wherein the activity is heavily controlled by the neurotransmitter Norepinephrine - neuroimaging studies have also been able to pinpoint which TYPE of NE-receptor is the most common in the SPL - the Alpha-2-receptor.

 

The ADHD-drug Intuniv (guanfacin XR, XL) works by direct manipulation of these receptors.

 

 

However, it's not the only drug with potential effect, I'll list them all:

 

 

Modafinil

Evekeo (racemic mixture amphetamine - the LEVO part is selective for NE, and hence important)

Reboxetine (NRI - norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor)

Atomoxetine (NRI - similar to reboxetine, but less selective, also affects NMDA and Kappa-receptors)

 

 

I'd start with Modafinil if I was you, and then if that doesn't work, go with Reboxetine, then go with Intuniv, or maybe a combo of Intuniv and Evekeo.

[Patrisha]

Thanks for response.You really helped me.I will try first with Modafinil.

[nsi189]

I also have very similar symptoms. Always drained mentally and physically. and the weird thing is, when I get sleep, I feel like shit. (my sleep is terrible with constant nightmares and apnea).

But it seems the more I sleep the more shitty I feel, and the longer I stay awake, I feel better.

I have a few pills of guanfacine, and I can't tell if they are doing much, but I think they are helping focus a bit.

I also have and bottle of atomoxetine laying around, should I try this? Doesn't it need a few weeks to kick in, like any other snri?

thanks

[Mind_Paralysis]

I also have very similar symptoms. Always drained mentally and physically. and the weird thing is, when I get sleep, I feel like shit. (my sleep is terrible with constant nightmares and apnea).

But it seems the more I sleep the more shitty I feel, and the longer I stay awake, I feel better.

I have a few pills of guanfacine, and I can't tell if they are doing much, but I think they are helping focus a bit.

I also have and bottle of atomoxetine laying around, should I try this? Doesn't it need a few weeks to kick in, like any other snri?

thanks

 

Hmm, I suggest you first take up your suspicions of an attention-disorder with your private Doctor, or nearest psychiatric health-care center.

 

I wouldn't go around trialling these drugs before you're certain this is your problem. You do have treatment-resistant depression and GAD as well, right? Could be any number of things - even physical issues, like a tumour on your adrenal glands, or perhaps your thyroid. Stuff like that.

 

Talk about getting some bloodwork done first, singling out any physical reasons for fatigue.


It should also be noted, my issues became a WHOLE lot worse once I was stricken with Occupational Burnout - which is actually a neurological damage to the hippocampus caused by overexposing the brain to cortisol. NSI-189 helped a lot with my symptoms, before a plateau was reached - which is logical, since NSI-189 repairs damage to the hippocampus.

 

 

And yes, Atomoxetine takes a few weeks to kick in, and the dosing is quite sensitive. I wouldn't recommend you try that, it does have the side-effect of suicidal ideation - it's infamous for being the WORST of all ADHD-drugs when it comes to that side-effect. Also, Reboxetine has a better side-effects profile, it's more of a PURE NRI than ATX, but that also takes a few weeks to kick in - so it's not necessarily because of the slight, slight SRI-effect of ATX that makes it take time before the effects show up - seems more like a common theme between many types of reuptake-inhibitors.
 

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 08 July 2017 - 09:34 AM.

[Helllllo]

 

I also have very similar symptoms. Always drained mentally and physically. and the weird thing is, when I get sleep, I feel like shit. (my sleep is terrible with constant nightmares and apnea).

But it seems the more I sleep the more shitty I feel, and the longer I stay awake, I feel better.

I have a few pills of guanfacine, and I can't tell if they are doing much, but I think they are helping focus a bit.

I also have and bottle of atomoxetine laying around, should I try this? Doesn't it need a few weeks to kick in, like any other snri?

thanks

 

Hmm, I suggest you first take up your suspicions of an attention-disorder with your private Doctor, or nearest psychiatric health-care center.

 

I wouldn't go around trialling these drugs before you're certain this is your problem. You do have treatment-resistant depression and GAD as well, right? Could be any number of things - even physical issues, like a tumour on your adrenal glands, or perhaps your thyroid. Stuff like that.

 

Talk about getting some bloodwork done first, singling out any physical reasons for fatigue.


It should also be noted, my issues became a WHOLE lot worse once I was stricken with Occupational Burnout - which is actually a neurological damage to the hippocampus caused by overexposing the brain to cortisol. NSI-189 helped a lot with my symptoms, before a plateau was reached - which is logical, since NSI-189 repairs damage to the hippocampus.

 

 

And yes, Atomoxetine takes a few weeks to kick in, and the dosing is quite sensitive. I wouldn't recommend you try that, it does have the side-effect of suicidal ideation - it's infamous for being the WORST of all ADHD-drugs when it comes to that side-effect. Also, Reboxetine has a better side-effects profile, it's more of a PURE NRI than ATX, but that also takes a few weeks to kick in - so it's not necessarily because of the slight, slight SRI-effect of ATX that makes it take time before the effects show up - seems more like a common theme between many types of reuptake-inhibitors.
 

 

What about something like buproprion? Why wouldn't that potentially work similar to reboxetine?

[Mind_Paralysis]

How is the op doing these days? Is he feeling any better? What drugs have you tried?

 

Btw, I just recently found out that DextroMethylphenidate - FOCALIN, is actually more selective towards NE than regular MPH - it's a much more balanced DRI/NRI - as such, it might be a valid option for the treatment of SCT.

 

 

 

 

I also have very similar symptoms. Always drained mentally and physically. and the weird thing is, when I get sleep, I feel like shit. (my sleep is terrible with constant nightmares and apnea).

But it seems the more I sleep the more shitty I feel, and the longer I stay awake, I feel better.

I have a few pills of guanfacine, and I can't tell if they are doing much, but I think they are helping focus a bit.

I also have and bottle of atomoxetine laying around, should I try this? Doesn't it need a few weeks to kick in, like any other snri?

thanks

 

Hmm, I suggest you first take up your suspicions of an attention-disorder with your private Doctor, or nearest psychiatric health-care center.

 

I wouldn't go around trialling these drugs before you're certain this is your problem. You do have treatment-resistant depression and GAD as well, right? Could be any number of things - even physical issues, like a tumour on your adrenal glands, or perhaps your thyroid. Stuff like that.

 

Talk about getting some bloodwork done first, singling out any physical reasons for fatigue.


It should also be noted, my issues became a WHOLE lot worse once I was stricken with Occupational Burnout - which is actually a neurological damage to the hippocampus caused by overexposing the brain to cortisol. NSI-189 helped a lot with my symptoms, before a plateau was reached - which is logical, since NSI-189 repairs damage to the hippocampus.

 

 

And yes, Atomoxetine takes a few weeks to kick in, and the dosing is quite sensitive. I wouldn't recommend you try that, it does have the side-effect of suicidal ideation - it's infamous for being the WORST of all ADHD-drugs when it comes to that side-effect. Also, Reboxetine has a better side-effects profile, it's more of a PURE NRI than ATX, but that also takes a few weeks to kick in - so it's not necessarily because of the slight, slight SRI-effect of ATX that makes it take time before the effects show up - seems more like a common theme between many types of reuptake-inhibitors.
 

 

What about something like buproprion? Why wouldn't that potentially work similar to reboxetine?

 

 

Because there's the question of WHERE the drug increases the activity of NE and DA - if it's in the wrong parts of the brain, where activity is more normal, then all you'll get is side-effects - selectivity in drugs can affect a lot.

 

Still, for some, Bupropion does seem to work - but that seems to be a minority with these types of symptoms.

 

 

It should be noted, that even though Bupropion is an NRI as well as a releasing agent of NE, it's primary effect is as a anticholinergic - it was originally created to help quit smoking, you know.

 

As such, it's doubtful how helpful it would be, in a disease like this. I've tried it myself, and the benefits were, in my case, fairly limited.
 

 

 

[msbost]

Anti-depressants tend to be a pain.  If you use them then it is recommended that you stick to the prescription schedule assigned by your doctor. There are behavioral strategies, habits, and nutritional regimens that can resolve your issue effectively and perhaps permanently.  From my experience with depression, I feel that it is an anger directed towards myself. When I am incapable of completing my desires, in the manner that I have planned, then I get angry at myself. As the anger accumulate I will enter a state best described as clinical depression.  It is not easy to remove the mental blocks and resolve lifestyle choices that have led to depression. You may utilize SSRI, NRI, SNRI, or even stimulants, but your self-esteem will likely lower since you relied on outside source to change your internal state. You might end up making a dependent personality which would later lead to more suffering.  

 

When you are depressed or anxious you tend to be less tolerant. Your will power dissolves so fixing the cause of your issues is difficult the start, and results take a few weeks to manifest adding more ice to your fiery will power.  In my opinion, the potential factors that lead to depression in an otherwise healthy individual are listed below:

 

-Excessive daydreaming that makes you escape reality thus, preventing you from noticing outside environment. If you are not aware of your life then it  will be impossible for you to make a conscious response. 

*Willpower and mental abilities are being depleted as you consciously or unconsciously force your self to remember past events. This makes you feel lethargic and fatigued, in a way you are working over-time to make yourself depressed.

*You want to make your desires manifest as soon as possible. That is not logical, Rome was not built in a day and it was not destroyed in a day either.  The process is slow, but it will get faster if you develop your moral and mental aspects. As a result of your development, you will get more opportunities that will provide you with enough power to make your desire come true that is if you are still focused on fulfilling your desire. 

-Excessively sugary diets, and unbalanced nutritional food intake. This is easy to resolve, just try to remember meal plans or foods that have made you feel more energetic, satisfied, and mentally active for long periods of time. If you have a difficulty in remembering such foods then consider experimenting on healthy foods (you probably know a lot of them).

 

I have always talked in a manner that was scientific and objective, but personal complex aspects of humanity require a subjective language. My source of information is easy to find, except for points listed with the symbol * . These points were inferred  from research findings in depression research and my personal experience.  Take what you see fit from my post. I presented my humble opinion, and I leave it to your judgement to decide. 

[msbost]

Also note that topics revolving around psychological sufferings are highly viewed in longecity, and the response tends to be bigger than other topics.  You can conclude that there are people who are suffering like you, and there are also other people who are trying to help you.  Humanity is not bad, everyone tries to help the other. However, there are times when we lose our moral stance due to doubts or intentions aimed at fulfilling harmful desires.  

[msbost]

I also have very similar symptoms. Always drained mentally and physically. and the weird thing is, when I get sleep, I feel like shit. (my sleep is terrible with constant nightmares and apnea).

But it seems the more I sleep the more shitty I feel, and the longer I stay awake, I feel better.

I have a few pills of guanfacine, and I can't tell if they are doing much, but I think they are helping focus a bit.

I also have and bottle of atomoxetine laying around, should I try this? Doesn't it need a few weeks to kick in, like any other snri?

thanks

 

I have a few reasons in my head about the causes. For now, can you eat a balanced meal plan for 1 week.  Try fruits and nuts for 1 week, and eat 3 times a day with no snacks in-between.  Do activities that make you feel lighter.

Don't feel bothered about the bad sleep, just make sure that you stay away from stimulants 4-6 hours before sleep and keep your room at 20 celsius.

[dopaminerush]

I also have very similar symptoms. Always drained mentally and physically. and the weird thing is, when I get sleep, I feel like shit. (my sleep is terrible with constant nightmares and apnea).

But it seems the more I sleep the more shitty I feel, and the longer I stay awake, I feel better.

I have a few pills of guanfacine, and I can't tell if they are doing much, but I think they are helping focus a bit.

I also have and bottle of atomoxetine laying around, should I try this? Doesn't it need a few weeks to kick in, like any other snri?

thanks

Man stop popping pills and stop hoping something from them. You need a pernamnet solution. Thats just sleep problem and it can make you full adhd, depressive, lack of motivation. Loose weight do some cardio, weightlifting and go to a neurologist and ENT for a sleep test solve that shit get adenoid/ nose concha... etc surgery whatever your doctor tell...  solve that shit trust me  it will fuck up your whole life and you will never get any real benefit from popping pillls. iwas having apnea because of conchas and when i get a radiofreq turbinate reduction + 4-5 months of nasonexx   and im waking up like saturn 5 rocket now.

[Patrisha]

Hi guys..I didn't try anything yet..But I was thinking to try ashwagandha..I tried Modafinil and it makes me sleepy.Yes,I made some shit done,like small tasks but I didn't like sleepy effect..I tried l-tyrosine,2mg and I didn't feel anything.I forget to say that my simptoms reminds me of negative simptoms for schizophrenia(my grandfather had schizophrenia)Also!I'm very very emotional person..

[hydrus]

motivation

0 concentration

daydreaming

procrastination

ADD

 

 

These can be associated with low catecholamines =dopamine and norepinephrine

 

opsesssive thoughts

no self-confidence

always dark thoughts..

 

 

These can be associated with low serotonin.

 

All these neurotransmitters can cause depression if imbalanced.

 

Low catecholamine depression can make you feel, flat, anhedonic, unmotivated, low drive, lack of focus. You tend to overeat and oversleep.

 

Low serotonin can make you feel  depressed, obsessive with no self-esteem like worthless ****. You tend to eat and sleep less.

 

Stimulant type supplements or drugs can help with low catecholamines: Phenylalanine, Tyrosine

For serotonin boost you could try Rhodiola Rosea, 5-htp, Tryptophan and B6.

SAM-e may be able to increase both Serotonin and Dopamine.

 

Long-term I would not just rely on drugs on supps but instead I would try to figure out the cause of your problems if possible. Drugs or supps are rarely a perfect fix.

 

Hormonal problems(low testosterone, low/high thyroid, adrenal dysfunction) are sometimes involved in 'psychological illness'.  Simple lifestyle changes such as getting more direct sunlight exposure(vitamin D?) and exercise can sometimes be helpful. Also pay attention how diet affects your mental health.

[msbost]

 

motivation

0 concentration

daydreaming

procrastination

ADD

 

 

These can be associated with low catecholamines =dopamine and norepinephrine

 

opsesssive thoughts

no self-confidence

always dark thoughts..

 

 

These can be associated with low serotonin.

 

All these neurotransmitters can cause depression if imbalanced.

 

Low catecholamine depression can make you feel, flat, anhedonic, unmotivated, low drive, lack of focus. You tend to overeat and oversleep.

 

Low serotonin can make you feel  depressed, obsessive with no self-esteem like worthless ****. You tend to eat and sleep less.

 

Stimulant type supplements or drugs can help with low catecholamines: Phenylalanine, Tyrosine

For serotonin boost you could try Rhodiola Rosea, 5-htp, Tryptophan and B6.

SAM-e may be able to increase both Serotonin and Dopamine.

 

Long-term I would not just rely on drugs on supps but instead I would try to figure out the cause of your problems if possible. Drugs or supps are rarely a perfect fix.

 

Hormonal problems(low testosterone, low/high thyroid, adrenal dysfunction) are sometimes involved in 'psychological illness'.  Simple lifestyle changes such as getting more direct sunlight exposure(vitamin D?) and exercise can sometimes be helpful. Also pay attention how diet affects your mental health.

 

 

I would argue with some of your earlier statement, particularly the aspect involving neurotransmitters. The oversimplification represents an incomplete thought/idea about the physiological cause of mental ailments; such thoughts are sadly ingrained heavily in some of the common fundamental psychology and neuroscience books. The brain is plastic, behaviors can become habits and habits become a solidified part of your personality.  Neurotransmitters, and hormones are only part of the issue we are looking at. You can't blame the cement for the awkward building plan, unless your cement is faulty -- a rare occasion. In my analogy, the cement represents neurotransmitters and hormones.

 

This is my humble opinion, I hope that it resonates with other people and I welcome any arguments.  I apologize if my tone appeared harsh above, I believe that you would agree with at least some parts of my idea.

[hydrus]

I would argue with some of your earlier statement, particularly the aspect involving neurotransmitters. The oversimplification represents an incomplete thought/idea about the physiological cause of mental ailments; such thoughts are sadly ingrained heavily in some of the common fundamental psychology and neuroscience books. The brain is plastic, behaviors can become habits and habits become a solidified part of your personality.  Neurotransmitters, and hormones are only part of the issue we are looking at. You can't blame the cement for the awkward building plan, unless your cement is faulty -- a rare occasion. In my analogy, the cement represents neurotransmitters and hormones.
 
This is my humble opinion, I hope that it resonates with other people and I welcome any arguments.  I apologize if my tone appeared harsh above, I believe that you would agree with at least some parts of my idea.

I disagree with that view. Maybe psychology can cause mental illness alone(I do not know) but there are many examples where clinical depression for example can be induced by purely biological factors.

Perfectly mentally healthy people can get severely depressed from cytokine administration alone.

My experience was that I went from a normal mental state to seriously depressed(for the first time in my life) within 1 hour for no apparent reason. It was like a switch was turned on/off in my brain. These changes were permanent.

There is no way my personality or my thinking could have changed overnight I wasn't even stressed at that time.

Explaining everything with neurotransmission is likely wrong and it is an oversimplification but honestly it is the only truly scientfic model that we have.

Thoughts alone can not explain severe cognitive impairments often seen in depression. It can not explain brain cell death and selected brain volume changes.

You can not think yourself some brain damage. There is a difference between being sad and suffering from depression.

Even very stressful life events and deep sadness are much different from depression. Sadness never gave me cognitive impairments, short term memory loss, struggling to read, heavy legs and arms, physical and mental paralysis.

Sadness does not cause physical symptoms for me and even in the saddest moments there can be a certain meaning and beauty and sense of being alive while in depression there is just nothing but emptiness, nihilism and hell.

I do not believe depression is a psychological experience with a meaning.

I do not understand why people accept that the neurotransmission model in schizophrenia is valid - almost anyone today accepts that schizophrenia is a biological illness - but many still do not accept that depression can be caused by biology alone.

Edited by hydrus, 07 November 2017 - 01:31 PM.

[dopaminerush]

But it seems the more I sleep the more shitty I feel, and the longer I stay awake, I feel better.

 BTW this is just this : 

https://en.vikipedi....ki/Wake_therapy