13 replies to this topic

[KieranA001]

Hi, 

 

Wondering if someone can help me. I have a folate deficiency as in the attached PDF. I have been feeling very irritable, anxious, depressed and find it hard to sleep or cannot get decent quality sleep since I've started taking methyl folate or the active form of folate (folapro).

 

I seem to be taking it out on people like my partner, and just keep snapping at people for no reason. With the sleep issues, I'm lying in my bed at night and feel tired but my brain feels wired. What can I do, obviously I cannot just stop taking it?

 

Thanks 

[pamojja]

How much methylfolate you take? Any other co-factors you take involved in B9 metabolism, like B12, B6, B1, etc.?

[KieranA001]

How much methylfolate you take? Any other co-factors you take involved in B9 metabolism, like B12, B6, B1, etc.?

 

I take 800mcg of folapro. I don't take anything else. 

 

  http://www.rothfeldapothecary.com/metagenics-folapro-120-tablets.html

 

Thanks,

Kieran

Edited by KieranA001, 28 July 2017 - 11:44 AM.

[pamojja]

Did you ever test serum levels of B9 and B12? (the 2 lab test usually being possible to be done) In any case, I would try to add a B-complex, but at least an equal amount of methyl B12 for the long term. Nicotinic acid (B3) could turn out the short term antidote to your irritation, but start with low dose because of the very likely flush.

 

All the Bs you could be had more reasonably priced at https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/, especially at their frequent special sales.

Edited by pamojja, 28 July 2017 - 12:05 PM.

[KieranA001]

Did you ever test serum levels of B9 and B12? (the 2 lab test usually being possible to be done) In any case, I would try to add a B-complex, but at least an equal amount of methyl B12 for the long term. Nicotinic acid (B3) could turn out the short term antidote to your irritation, but start with low dose because of the very likely flush.

 

All the Bs you could be had more reasonably priced at https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/, especially at their frequent special sales.

 

No I don't think I got a serum test, I believe I had a B12 that came back fine in the blood test results I had done recently. Haven't had a B9 test though. I have just brought a B-complex from Jarrow forumlas to see how that goes. Do you think it's worth taking it with the seperate folic acid as well? I know the B-complex has folic acid but didn't know if it was enough. 

 

100mg of niacinamide from B3 is in the B-complex so hopefully that will help. 

[pamojja]

No I don't think I got a serum test, I believe I had a B12 that came back fine in the blood test results I had done recently. Haven't had a B9 test though. I have just brought a B-complex from Jarrow forumlas to see how that goes.

 

The problem with serum B9 and B12 is, that they might show metabolically inactive, but high levels. Unless you're blandly deficient. A better test to back it up would be homocysteine.

 

Please be aware that you still mistake folic acid for methylfolate. But folic acid has still to be metabolized through a number of steps in the body to active methylfolate. Which doesn't happens as it should in upto 50% of the population. Therefore wound NOT recommend any folic acid in your case.

 

 

Do you think it's worth taking it with the seperate folic acid as well? Do you think it's worth taking it with the seperate folic acid as well? I know the B-complex has folic acid but didn't know if it was enough. 

 

100mg of niacinamide from B3 is in the B-complex so hopefully that will help.

Depends on the totals (! Not, if it really contains folic acid !). Because maybe your adverse reactions wouldn't even happened if you started with half its dose, and slowly increase afterwards. Anyways, always back it up with equal amounts of B12.

 

Am not aware that the niacinamide has the similar methyl-draining properties as the nicotinic acid form of B3. It also doesn't cause a flush. But you surely will find out by experimenting.

[KieranA001]

 

No I don't think I got a serum test, I believe I had a B12 that came back fine in the blood test results I had done recently. Haven't had a B9 test though. I have just brought a B-complex from Jarrow forumlas to see how that goes.

 

The problem with serum B9 and B12 is, that they might show metabolically inactive, but high levels. Unless you're blandly deficient. A better test to back it up would be homocysteine.

 

Please be aware that you still mistake folic acid for methylfolate. But folic acid has still to be metabolized through a number of steps in the body to active methylfolate. Which doesn't happens as it should in upto 50% of the population. Therefore wound NOT recommend any folic acid in your case.

 

 

Do you think it's worth taking it with the seperate folic acid as well? Do you think it's worth taking it with the seperate folic acid as well? I know the B-complex has folic acid but didn't know if it was enough. 

 

100mg of niacinamide from B3 is in the B-complex so hopefully that will help.

Depends on the totals (! Not, if it really contains folic acid !). Because maybe your adverse reactions wouldn't even happened if you started with half its dose, and slowly increase afterwards. Anyways, always back it up with equal amounts of B12.

 

Am not aware that the niacinamide has the similar methyl-draining properties as the nicotinic acid form of B3. It also doesn't cause a flush. But you surely will find out by experimenting.

 

Well why shouldn't I take folic acid, is there another way of fixing its deficiency? I did hear somewhere to not take folic acid, here's the snippet: 

 

"Now, folic acid goes through dihydrofolate reductase and it’s very slow in doing it. So folic acid goes through dihydrofolate reductase and so does biopterin. What’s happening to your patient’s neurotransmitters? They’re dropping. They’re lowering. So you’re scrambling." 

 

 If I try this B-complex and it's alright then good, but if I'm still getting symptoms you recommend lowering dose then, what would you recommend? Aren't folic acid and methylfolate the same? Also, if the niacinamide doesn't work as nicotinic acid should, would it be worth combining the two?

 

Thanks,

Kieran 

[pamojja]

 If I try this B-complex and it's alright then good, but if I'm still getting symptoms you recommend lowering dose then, what would you recommend? Aren't folic acid and methylfolate the same? Also, if the niacinamide doesn't work as nicotinic acid should, would it be worth combining the two?

 

 

 

Folic acid and methylfolate are not the same!

 

As already explained, folic acid is different from methylfolate in that the former still has to be converded in a multi-step reaction (5, if I remember it right) in the body to the later. That doesn't work in 50% of the population. So why gambling?

 

Additionally enough inactive folic acid might block folate receptors, making you even more deficient.

 

Concerning lowering the dose, start any supplement at the lowest dose convenient to you: either half or a quarter, or a speck, if negative symptoms continue to experiment.

 

Try the niacinamide if it works and then decide.
 

[KieranA001]

 

 If I try this B-complex and it's alright then good, but if I'm still getting symptoms you recommend lowering dose then, what would you recommend? Aren't folic acid and methylfolate the same? Also, if the niacinamide doesn't work as nicotinic acid should, would it be worth combining the two?

 

 

 

Folic acid and methylfolate are not the same!

 

As already explained, folic acid is different from methylfolate in that the former still has to be converded in a multi-step reaction (5, if I remember it right) in the body to the later. That doesn't work in 50% of the population. So why gambling?

 

Additionally enough inactive folic acid might block folate receptors, making you even more deficient.

 

Concerning lowering the dose, start any supplement at the lowest dose convenient to you: either half or a quarter, or a speck, if negative symptoms continue to experiment.

 

Try the niacinamide if it works and then decide.
 

 

 

I know folic acid and methylfolate aren't the same I just thought you'd told me not to take folic acid because it doesn't convert properly but I was saying if I'm already taking the active form then I wouldn't need to worry about the conversion issues do I? I'm guessing both forms will still treat a folate deficiency? You're telling me not to take any form of folic acid / methyl folate but if I'm deficient then how can this be treated if I stopped taking my folate pro. (active already converted form). 

 

If I take this niacinamide or the other form you was talking about earlier (as I brought some seen as that's what you suggested), what am I supposed to notice from it? Do I take it in combination with a low dose active form of folate (folate pro).

 

Sorry if I sound noobish or if it's frustrating I don't know much when it comes to this stuff.

 

I also found this on my genetic data from DNAfit.

 

"You have the heterozygous 677C/T version of the MTHFR gene which produces an aggregate enzyme activity that is reduced compared to the 677CC genotype. This has been associated with increased homocysteine levels when dietary intake of folic acid is too low. The reduced activity can be compensated for by increased dietary folic acid, vitamin B6 & B12. You should increase your intake of these vitamins to reach your personal daily goals."

 

Thanks!

 

Edited by KieranA001, 28 July 2017 - 07:50 PM.

[pamojja]

I know folic acid and methylfolate aren't the same I just thought you'd told me not to take folic acid because it doesn't convert properly but I was saying if I'm already taking the active form then I wouldn't need to worry about the conversion issues do I?

 
No, just don't call 'methylfolate' 'folic acid'. It isn't.
 

I'm guessing both forms will still treat a folate deficiency?

 
If you're one of those who cannot convert inactive folic acid into biologically active methylfolate, and you're still taking, or start taking folic acid - because you didn't read the ingredients-label of a new supplement carefully enough - than you could even worsen folate deficiency. As already explained, inactive folic acid could block folate receptors and hinder real active methylfolate doing its thing in the body.
 

You're telling me not to take any form of folic acid / methyl folate but if I'm deficient then how can this be treated if I stopped taking my folate pro. (active already converted form).

 
Why you now again mingling folic acid and methylfolate together as if they were the same? They are not! Nowhere I said real methylfolate could not treat folate deficiency.
 

If I take this niacinamide or the other form you was talking about earlier (as I brought some seen as that's what you suggested), what am I supposed to notice from it? Do I take it in combination with a low dose active form of folate (folate pro).

 

Normally one doesn't 'feel' anything from taking B vitamins. You said you felt agitated on methylfolate. I said nicotinic acid could be an antidote. Nicotinic acid is actually the only B vitamin which can be felt as flush by everyone at high enough doses (which is individual, start very low, about 50 mgs, and increase gradually, because some ended in the ER by wrongly thinking they would die from the flush). If nicotinic acid works as an antidote to the agitation you experience from methylfolate, then you should take it as antitode once you feel the agitation from methylfolate. And should notice no more agitation.

 

However you should at least take B12 if you take methylfolate daily. Read here: https://en.wikipedia...t_of_folic_acid

Edited by pamojja, 28 July 2017 - 08:08 PM.

[aconita]

Eat your lettuce instead.

[KieranA001]

I stopped taking the folic acid and B12 but my symptoms didn't go away, however I've never felt better in my life after taking magnesium supplements for a few days now. Mind = blown. Who'd thought magnesium would help with my symptoms, they did better than the propranolol the doc prescribed.  

[Multivitz]

Everything is slowed by industrial poisoning. Just reach for the iodine and get some boron in your life. You guys seem well motivated, don't think things work unless there's minerals about!

[Multivitz]

B vitamins have trouble getting in the body if ones Magnesium levels are low and a blood test won't reveal much!
When taking Magnesium, it will effect the usage of other things like vitamin A, D3, K2, Vit C, Zinc, and everything else to some extent!
It's all about balance. You don't have to supplement every day, I always recommend quarter dosing. I hope this helps.