7 replies to this topic

[Zibibbo]

Hello.
 

Does anyone know how to recognize R-Ketamine from his parents S and RS?

 

Do they crystallize in different ways so they can be distiguished under eye or a stereomicroscope?
Do they rotate polarized light in different ways so one can use a polarimeter?

 

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hmm... good question!

I don't know the answer to your questions, so I'd try a different route - ask the users Strangelove, MrNootropic  and Brighterpath how and where they did their third-party testing for the compounds they have synthesized - better to get real HPLC and NMR test-results on this stuff, so that you can be completely certain that you get what you want.

 

BTW... I wouldn't buy an illegal compound like Ketamine from online black-markets, instead, I would go to MEXICO - or another badly regulated country, and ask a veterinarian to purchase a few vials - then you'll get an actual brand of real medical ketamine (horse-tranquilizer) and can be more certain that you can get what you need.

 

Hmm... you're in Italy... I have heard from other Italians that medical supplies are easier to come by there, because of corruption and lose regulations (no offense!)  - could you not consider going to the SOUTH of Italy, where conditions are the worst - perhaps the poorest of the municipalities, but still a big enough city, and then visit a veterinarian, to get your Ketamine? Then you'll get it in a intravenously injectable liquid form even! = ) Then all you need to do, is set up an I.V and treat yourself according to the scientific basis!

 

 

THAT... or forget about this stuff with traditional Ketamine and join a 6-HydroxyNorKetamine group buy... or start one yourself - there have been several individuals with suicidal ideation on the board recently, whom are all interested in someone starting a NEW group buy for the compound - they are but waiting for someone to ACT! : O

You could be that someone.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 16 August 2017 - 06:58 AM.

[Zibibbo]

Hmm... good question!

I don't know the answer to your questions, so I'd try a different route - ask the users Strangelove, MrNootropic  and Brighterpath how and where they did their third-party testing for the compounds they have synthesized - better to get real HPLC and NMR test-results on this stuff, so that you can be completely certain that you get what you want.

 

BTW... I wouldn't buy an illegal compound like Ketamine from online black-markets, instead, I would go to MEXICO - or another badly regulated country, and ask a veterinarian to purchase a few vials - then you'll get an actual brand of real medical ketamine (horse-tranquilizer) and can be more certain that you can get what you need.

 

Hmm... you're in Italy... I have heard from other Italians that medical supplies are easier to come by there, because of corruption and lose regulations (no offense!)  - could you not consider going to the SOUTH of Italy, where conditions are the worst - perhaps the poorest of the municipalities, but still a big enough city, and then visit a veterinarian, to get your Ketamine? Then you'll get it in a intravenously injectable liquid form even! = ) Then all you need to do, is set up an I.V and treat yourself according to the scientific basis!

 

 

THAT... or forget about this stuff with traditional Ketamine and join a 6-HydroxyNorKetamine group buy... or start one yourself - there have been several individuals with suicidal ideation on the board recently, whom are all interested in someone starting a NEW group buy for the compound - they are but waiting for someone to ACT! : O

You could be that someone.

I see you know Italy ;-) 
HNK is too expensive for a molecule wich i don't know if it work on me or not.

Of course an HPLC and NMR would ever be the best way.
This technologies aren't so accessible and require experience

 

Looking at European Pharmacopoeia 2016, RS- Ketamine can be indentified succesfully doing 3 assays:

 

-rotation with polarimeter: +-0.2° for RS Ket. This test can be performed in 5 minutes.
-IR absorption. This test require a IR machine but the test is executable by anyone looking a video on youtube ;-) HPLC is far complex to set up and perform.

-Chlorine test A (Ph.Eur. 2.3.1)

 

IR absorption is the most important.  

 

If you are a chemistry\ pharmacy student or have a friend, it is not so difficult to have access to those instruments.

 

For recognize R from S is enought perform a polarimeter. R ket would rotate the light >> +0.2°

I'm asking if R molecules do crystals morphologically different than S.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Hmm... good question!

I don't know the answer to your questions, so I'd try a different route - ask the users Strangelove, MrNootropic  and Brighterpath how and where they did their third-party testing for the compounds they have synthesized - better to get real HPLC and NMR test-results on this stuff, so that you can be completely certain that you get what you want.

 

BTW... I wouldn't buy an illegal compound like Ketamine from online black-markets, instead, I would go to MEXICO - or another badly regulated country, and ask a veterinarian to purchase a few vials - then you'll get an actual brand of real medical ketamine (horse-tranquilizer) and can be more certain that you can get what you need.

 

Hmm... you're in Italy... I have heard from other Italians that medical supplies are easier to come by there, because of corruption and lose regulations (no offense!)  - could you not consider going to the SOUTH of Italy, where conditions are the worst - perhaps the poorest of the municipalities, but still a big enough city, and then visit a veterinarian, to get your Ketamine? Then you'll get it in a intravenously injectable liquid form even! = ) Then all you need to do, is set up an I.V and treat yourself according to the scientific basis!

 

 

THAT... or forget about this stuff with traditional Ketamine and join a 6-HydroxyNorKetamine group buy... or start one yourself - there have been several individuals with suicidal ideation on the board recently, whom are all interested in someone starting a NEW group buy for the compound - they are but waiting for someone to ACT! : O

You could be that someone.

I see you know Italy ;-) 
HNK is too expensive for a molecule wich i don't know if it work on me or not.

Of course an HPLC and NMR would ever be the best way.
This technologies aren't so accessible and require experience

 

Looking at European Pharmacopoeia 2016, RS- Ketamine can be indentified succesfully doing 3 assays:

 

-rotation with polarimeter: +-0.2° for RS Ket. This test can be performed in 5 minutes.
-IR absorption. This test require a IR machine but the test is executable by anyone looking a video on youtube ;-) HPLC is far complex to set up and perform.

-Chlorine test A (Ph.Eur. 2.3.1)

 

IR absorption is the most important.  

 

If you are a chemistry\ pharmacy student or have a friend, it is not so difficult to have access to those instruments.

 

For recognize R from S is enought perform a polarimeter. R ket would rotate the light >> +0.2°

I'm asking if R molecules do crystals morphologically different than S.

 

 

Well, this is all a bit above my pay-grade, lol! Advanced stuff this, but you got me checking for studies of the chemical properties of the isomers now! The S-isomer seems to be very extensively studied, there's a crap-load of data on it, but not so much on R-ketamine...

 

When trying to find info off the beaten path, these are the only references I could find:

 

 

https://www.shroomer...782390#10782390

 

"I've been using Ketamine for quite some time, and i have extensive experience with both s-isomer and racemic. Mine was lab made, so i didn't cook it from a vial.

K will never be a really really fine powder, like coke can be for example. Racemic(which is the type in vials, most common) will look like little salt granules, small opaque little chunks.

s-isomer is very fine, and has a shard like crystal appearance."

 

 

Hmm... this small note seems to imply that S-Ketamine is somewhat more transparent than R-ketamine and that the structure is more crystaline than R-ketamine - so, R-ketamine should be more opaque?

Here's another thread on a recreational drug-site wherein the users discuss the potential morphological differentiation between the crystals formed by the R and S -isomers:

 

http://www.bluelight...l=1#post9098662

 

"IME pure racemic K crystals tend to have a shape like the rods/tubes. The only S-ketamine that I ever had and the only other picture I have seen from someone else's were these rounded cubes. Something like sugar but more coarse / bigger crystals.
The only R-ketamine that I ever had was sharp like shards. The crystals were fine, needle-like, pointy, not "broken off" like the rods but pointy. They also seemed to scrape against each other creating miniature shards."

 

 

That... seems to fly directly in the face of the previous post, on another site.

 

 

This then, suggests to me, that perhaps there isn't much of a morphological difference between the crystal structures which the isomers form.  But, I can of course not be certain. : [

 

Better that you utilize the tests you described to me instead of relying on visuals!

[Zibibbo]

What i have look like this picture of a broken glass taken from Google:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This in fact fit with the descriptions you kindly posted: shards shape.

I SUPPOSE racemic RS crystallize differently from R, and that R crystallize egual to S enantiomer. I HAVE NO SOURCE TO SAY THAT, but i'm waiting answers in a facebook chemistry group
 

[Zibibbo]

"Recently I have had the S isomer through I.M. administration (the Agrovet brand) which was indeed different than racemic, whether taken I.M. or insufflated. It couldn't have been R since it is known agrovet is S and R-ketamine is not seen in medical vials since it has no application in anaesthesia. The point is: my experiences with agrovet confirmed my experiences quite a while ago that I have had with both separate isomers in crystal form. I now know that I was correctly informed which was which. S came as rounded box-shaped crystals and R came as jagged sharp shards. Every time I have had or seen racemic as big crystals they were rods, a form in-between round and sharp/elongated.

 

It is true that the speed of crystallization can influence the shape of crystals, the size is even more influenced. This is a general fact in chemistry, but it doesn't mean that every compound lets itself to be packed in every different sort of crystal lattice, they have tendencies or characteristics that come out most characteristically when crystallization is slow. If the process is sped up, the shape can become more indistinct. Talking about racemic ketamine for instance, the rods may not be straight or parallel anymore but become more jagged and fucked up. Or the rods are not long anymore making the shape resemble boxes more, because a cylinder which has a height the same as the diameter looks almost the same as a sugar or salt 'rounded cube' crystal which is shaped the same in every direction."

 

Source:
http://www.bluelight...-Ketamine/page6
 

Edited by Zibibbo, 17 August 2017 - 06:40 PM.

[Zibibbo]

Good news people!!

 

It is possible to build your own polarimeter!

Here you find the simple theory behind the link between chirality and light rotation. Also you find, with pictures, how to build and use a 10USD polarimeter! 

With this stuff you can know for sure if you have R, S, or racemic. 

Not only! if error is acceptable (one can check buying inexpensive D-Limonene and look if the value found is near +116°) you can perform a kind of "HP-less" identification :-)

 

 

I will post my experiments soon in a dedicated thread.

LINK
 

[Zibibbo]

Good news people!!

 

It is possible to build your own polarimeter!

Here you find the simple theory behind the link between chirality and light rotation. Also you find, with pictures, how to build and use a 10USD polarimeter! 

With this stuff you can know for sure if you have R, S, or racemic. 

Not only! if error is acceptable (one can check buying inexpensive D-Limonene and look if the value found is near +116°) you can perform a kind of "HP-less" identification :-)

 

 

I will post my experiments soon in a dedicated thread.

LINK