20 replies to this topic

[markosheehan]

hi

 

i am looking for the safest gaba agonist/structure drug I can take to help me with anxiety and insomnia. I will only take once every two weeks roughly but I will want to take it long term. sadly a lot of the drugs i have looked at are toxic in some sense. mostly neurotoxic but some can damage you physically. I do not want to harm my brain/cognition in anyway possible.

 

Benzos seem to harm your memory with long term use. GHB and other analogues seem neurotoxic. would phenibut be the best option? even though withdrawl can be bad this will not be a risk as i will not be taking it often. gabaprentin and pregballin might be bad for your kidneys and also seems to harm your memory.magnolia bark could be a good option but very little is known about it. i know nothing is perfect but i am looking for something that is the least harmful. dont all gaba drugs cause excitotoxicty? kava causes Liver problems so i can not use that. so would phenibut be the least harmful?

 

if anyone has any better alternatives i do not know about I would love to know. 

[tunt01]

I would look into the supplement Relora (magnolia officials).  I believe it is still technically a GABA agonist (perhaps mild?), but I've read anecdotal testimonial of individuals who have used it in the process of getting off actual prescription benzos.

 

Magnolia has components like honokiol, which have demonstrated a lot benefits related to neuroprotection and diabetes prevention.  I believe it acts along a SIRT3-PGC1a path, such that it should be conducive to longevity and should be supportive of stress resistance/anxiolytic.

 

 

[markosheehan]

thanks man. I will look into it. I wish more research was done on it as it seems very promising. it seems like a good option for me aswell as its not too strong but it is stronger than placebo 

Edited by markosheehan, 30 September 2017 - 01:10 PM.

[Tony Rantala]

Glycine. Start small, dissolved in water.

[markosheehan]

a lot of people say they feel nothing from glycine

[Eryximachus]

Benzos have 60 years of research and billions of prescriptions dispensed.  Few drugs have been studied to this degree.  Memory impairment is a side effect, but that is also a hallmark of depression and anxiety. Of course, alcohol potentiates the effect and higher doses make it worse.  The problem with benzos is a lot of people use them to deal with other drugs and take very high doses.  Many also want very immediate relief, whereas for example, 2mg of Valium twice per day is very effective and very safe.  You won't feel it right away, but it will work.

 

We have nothing remotely similar to benzos at this time, and every research chemical/herbal supplement pales in comparison.  Worse, we have very little data on pretty much all of them.

 

Valium was the first $1 billion drug.  There remains huge research on making some better. If there was something better, it would be out there.  

[markosheehan]

just because its been researched a lot does not make it the best option. long term benzo use has been associated with a range of neurological disorders. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15033227

[Eryximachus]

just because its been researched a lot does not make it the best option. long term benzo use has been associated with a range of neurological disorders. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15033227

 

That's not what the study says, and many others dispute such findings.  

 

I am not saying the drugs are good. The withdrawal is definitely not good.  But, while you are taking them, they are by far the safest drugs.  Putting aside the studies, all of which prove conclusively benzos are more effective with fewer side effects than any other psychiatric drug, we have 60 years of history and literally billions of prescriptions. 

 

Hundreds of millions of people have taken benzos for more than half a century. If there was some kind major side effect, we would know about it.  And that is on top of relatively weak studies like the one you referenced above.  

[normalizing]

I would look into the supplement Relora (magnolia officials).  I believe it is still technically a GABA agonist (perhaps mild?), but I've read anecdotal testimonial of individuals who have used it in the process of getting off actual prescription benzos.

 

Magnolia has components like honokiol, which have demonstrated a lot benefits related to neuroprotection and diabetes prevention.  I believe it acts along a SIRT3-PGC1a path, such that it should be conducive to longevity and should be supportive of stress resistance/anxiolytic.

 

 

oh yeah? i would like a single report of a person getting off benzos using relora since ive tried doing that and its nothing in comparison. relora is more of a herbal kind of a weak childish relaxing effect that lasts for a bit, but benzos have a strong binding ability that can last for hours, days and it completely alters your perception once off. really, who the hell got off benzos using relora??? what are you going to suggest next, chamomile tea and valerian too?

[tunt01]

 

 

oh yeah? i would like a single report of a person getting off benzos using relora since ive tried doing that and its nothing in comparison. relora is more of a herbal kind of a weak childish relaxing effect that lasts for a bit, but benzos have a strong binding ability that can last for hours, days and it completely alters your perception once off. really, who the hell got off benzos using relora??? what are you going to suggest next, chamomile tea and valerian too?

 

 

Here is one such anecdotal report.

 

 

The supplements are Magnesium Malate, a total of about 1000 mg of Magnesium a day which means you have to take 7 tablets a day (I took 1 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon and the remaining 4 in the evening, around 2 hours before I intended to go to sleep). The second supplement is Relora, 3 a day, I take 1 in the afternoon and 2 with the magnesium in the evening. And the last one is Bacopa Monnieri, of which I take only 1 capsule at night together with the magnesium and relora. The brands that I've been using have been Source Naturals for both the Magnesium Malate and the Relora, and AOR Bacopa Enlighten for the Bacopa Monnieri. I used to take Thorne Bacopa in the beginning, but unfortunately it was discontinued and I had to find another one. I'm sure other brands of these 3 supplements will work perfectly or even better for other people, these are the ones that have worked best for me but everyone is different and things can work differently for others of course.

 

[markosheehan]

does anyone know any benzos that do not affect memory. I have heard of pyrazolam and how it has very very few adverse side affects. is this true. I would take it but it seems reckless. On the NCBI theres only been like 5 studies ever done on it. is there other similar benzos to it  that we have research on and we know how safe they are

[normalizing]

of all magnesiums, why malate version? and this guy should have implemented taurine; https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6087177

[Eryximachus]

does anyone know any benzos that do not affect memory. I have heard of pyrazolam and how it has very very few adverse side affects. is this true. I would take it but it seems reckless. On the NCBI theres only been like 5 studies ever done on it. is there other similar benzos to it  that we have research on and we know how safe they are

 

Your question is about "safest".  Pyrazolam was developed personally by Leo Sternbach, but for whatever reason, Roche did not pursue further research on it and the interwebs discovered it within the past 5 years.

 

The bottom line is that *nothing* in your lifetime will ever compare to the level of research we have on diazepam when it comes to safety.  Diazepam is the safest gaba drug, period. 

 

If you want to discuss other possibilities of anti-anxiety drugs, start a new thread.  

[normalizing]

by what means you mean is the safest? like the most used and proven to not kill you in normal doses or what? because diazepam has really nasty history of side effects abuse and withdrawal that can kill

[Razor444]

I've taken CBD the last couple of nights with success. Could look into that!

[markosheehan]

CBD is too light. By safest I mean has the least side affects mainly concerned with physical damage and brain damage. I'm not really to concerned with the addictiveness and I am more concerned with the other 2 things I mentioned. I have good self control. Benzos seems to cause cognitive impairment to a extent I am not comfortable let alone the correlation between Alzheimer's/dementia. Evidence out there suggests it could be permanent.
I think kava is a good option.

[Galaxyshock]

Kava is pretty nice but I feel it's more of a recreational GABAergic with several other mechanisms of action. In your situation I would probably go with Ashwagandha (+ small amount of alcohol if you feel like it since it's synergistic) or perhaps Passion Flower.

[markosheehan]

kava is a hepatotoxin i have just found out.

[normalizing]

the leaves of kava are hepatoxic, and there was a ban on the whole plant for a while because some idiots mixed it with the root powder in the past and caused lots of health problems to people. as far as i know, the root is zero hepatoxic. but im curious to ask, does anyone know of good quality kava that actually works? ive tried the whole foods and gaia herbs versions, both were so weak, i had to take lots of caps to feel something and im still worried some idiot might put leave powder in there so.... i rather take as little as possible with the best effect. any clue to good quality kava??

[Eryximachus]

by what means you mean is the safest? like the most used and proven to not kill you in normal doses or what? because diazepam has really nasty history of side effects abuse and withdrawal that can kill

 

Diazepam has fewer side effects than every other psychiatric drug in use.  It is almost impossible to overdose on it.  

 

Withdrawal is a concern, but it is largely overrated.  People taking therapeutic doses of diazepam are not going to have seizures upon secession.  People who have such problems use high doses of diazepam to counter other drugs, like cocaine, amphetamine, or similar traditional drugs of abuse. If you read the literature, it is really quite rare for the typical compliant diazepam patient to increase doses at all, and the majority of subjects voluntarily decrease dosage over time.   

Edited by Eryximachus, 06 October 2017 - 09:35 PM.

[normalizing]

i heard from people some type of racetams are GABAergics, not sure which ones. can anyone confirm such thing? i believe one of them was fasoracetam, but i cannot really be sure