9 replies to this topic

[tms]

 I'm vegan and plan to take Creatine. I'm a little concerned with male pattern baldness and the DHT increase supposedly caused by creatine. Nobody in my family has MPB or any kind of baldness. I was  wondering if creatine or DHT increasing products could have an effect on my hair ? 

 

Also about high dose vitamin K (K2? MK7 ?). I read on various places that vitamin K consumption may cause bone growth in the face (zygomatic arch, jaw..), and on some occasion in height and width. Could this increase dimorphic traits ? Or Unaesthetically broaden your face ? If you have experience with that I would greatly appreciate your input. 

 

Sorry if I should have done two threads. 

[Believer]

Creatine does not work for dht. Myth has been busted long ago.

[markymark]

check this out:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19741313

RESULTS:

After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

 

To have some DHT must not necessarily be a bad thing ;-).

 

mm

Edited by markymark, 19 October 2017 - 10:47 AM.

[aconita]

It isn't even sure if DHT has anything to do with baldness, which likely isn't the case or teenagers should be bald to grow hair back when elderly.

 

K2 can't cause bone growth as for you concerns, that is acromegaly, a whole different ballgame.

[Believer]

It isn't even sure if DHT has anything to do with baldness, which likely isn't the case or teenagers should be bald to grow hair back when elderly.

 

K2 can't cause bone growth as for you concerns, that is acromegaly, a whole different ballgame.

Teenagers have high testosterone but low dht. Dht increases with age up until a certain point where it seems to drop except in isolated tissues where it continues to rise. Those isolated tissues are the scalp, prostate and specific areas of the face I believe. This is why women are more prone to develop male pattern facial hair, hair loss, why men are more prone to develop hair loss, prostate issues, more able to grow a full beard in spite having lower testosterone and so on.

I remember several (Arab) teens who had mild hair loss on the top of their skull.

 

Vitamin K does have effects on bone development but I am not sure if it is relevant to after puberty. Some had hypothesized that the reason for the thin and long bones in some people were due to a vitamin K deficiency (obviously too simplistic).

 

 

 

[aconita]

Even if the DHT theory would be proven, which I don't think will and anyway is off topic here, can you provide reference to hair loss from supplementing creatine?

 

Development is a different thing than changing what is already developed and deficiency effects aren't an indicator of normal or overdosed consequences.

 

 

[RedStaR]

Even if the DHT theory would be proven, which I don't think will and anyway is off topic here, can you provide reference to hair loss from supplementing creatine?

Development is a different thing than changing what is already developed and deficiency effects aren't an indicator of normal or overdosed consequences.

We have known that DHT is implicated in the pathology of MPB for 50 years now.

[Junk Master]

I can assure you that in over 20 years of being involved in the supplement industry I have not come across one credible case of anyone losing a hair, yet alone their hair, from taking creatine.

 

I have seen plenty of cases of young people, with a genetic predisposition to male pattern baldness, taking combinations of Masteron, Winstrol, Primobolan, Anadrol, Trenbolone, and Testosterone, who have accelerated what would have been their unavoidable (for now) hair loss.

[ironfistx]

check this out:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19741313

RESULTS:

After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

 

To have some DHT must not necessarily be a bad thing ;-).

 

mm

 

Then good thing you shouldn't load creatine anyway.

[Leon93]

It´s a bit late for me to be posting a reply in this post, but I just came across it. I began taking creatine about a year ago (I think it was about 5-10g) a day for about 3 months, and it did cause my hair to change. I noticed the change when I was about 2 months in, and it worsened the following months from there. My curly hair became soft, weak and lost it´s curl and my hair became thinner (I think it´s what happened). I think the anagen phase stopped (as the 5-a reductase enzyme causes DHT levels to rise, which inhibits hair follicles from appropriately absorbing nutrients). I think it has thinned here and there, with perhaps a slight change in my hairline. It was worse about half a year ago, and most of it has restored luckily, but not all (yet). I might need more time for it to restore completely., but I might be wrong. I took it for the same reasons you did (the cognitive and ergogenic benefits, of which the cognitive for vegans). I do think there is some genetic factor involved, Vegan Physique (YouTuber) f.e. takes about 5g daily and it does not seem like it has an impact on him. And there are many more people off course. But he and most of those who take creatine are also often about at least 200 pounds, I myself am slightly above 150, with nowhere near as much muscle mass as they do. I am very lean, so the lack of muscle makes me personally conclude 3g at most is a long-term safe dosage for me. I think the dosage I took was just way too high.

Next to the change of hair, I also most definitely felt the change in the gym. My arms were rock hard after doing some sets and it felt amazing. Now I don´t take creatine anymore I never have this same feeling anymore. I think my libido was also slightly higher, but it felt a bit ´forced´ and unnatural, and therefore a bit undesirable, but that´s just my subjective experience. I think it also gave me slight cognitive benefits.

As a result of my hair thinning etc., I began taking saw palmetto for a few months. I think it might have helped in the restoration of my hair, but off course I´m not sure as there was no control group. I now am considering pygeum for the last bit of restoration, as it comes with less side-effects. I suggest taking about 1-2.5g a day for a few months, and see where that brings you. Then you can also up the dosage from there. I know tomatoes, pumpkin seeds and a few other foods can slightly lower DHT, so you might want to add them to your diet!

You might also want to look into beta-alanine (for carnosine), carnitine and taurine, as they also might give a few benefits for vegans. I know carnitine might have the slight disadvantage side-effect of causing TMAO levels to rise, which in turn might increase cancer risk. But it´s also good for improving muscle soreness and sperm quality. As far as I know taurine and beta-alanine don´t have any serious negative side-effects.
I have a little bit of creatine left now and I´m not sure what to do with it; consuming the last bit or throw it in the garbage can as it just might not be for me. I think I first would like to see full restoration before consuming it again.

You don´t need vitamin K2 as your body can synthesize enough K1 into K2, as long as you are consuming enough vegetables (between 100-500g of green leafy vegetables/cruciferous a day). Then again, it´s also really expensive.

Edited by Leon93, 03 February 2018 - 10:47 AM.