• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

micro-dose lithium - best hack yet.

mood

  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 crusader

  • Guest
  • 79 posts
  • 1
  • Location:california

Posted 02 November 2017 - 04:57 AM


Ahh it's been awhile, gentlemen (and ladies) 

 

I just wanted to say that in my quest to help heal my central nervous system and optimize my mood since a series of undeserved health setbacks and insults (car accident and fluoroquinolone toxicity being the most severe insults) - micro-dose lithium is one of the most noticeable and effective brain and mood hacks I've done in awhile - if not ever. 

 

I've been taking 2mg of lithium daily and within a week I noticed an undeniable difference in my state of mind. 

 

Mood, music enjoyment, socialbility, empathy and anxious behavior around people have all improved considerably. 

 

You guys gotta get on this - pretty cheap sources on amazon and iherb (pure encap is a good brand- only take the 5mg EOD though, you only need a few MG daily..I find 5mg was way too overbeaering and made me a little lethargic and apathetic) 

 

 

the product I personally took a product called rock calm - but it also has zinc and mag, I know GSK-3 inhibition is a big factor on mood and the zinc and lithium in rock calm may have some synergistic effect (zinc and lithium are potent gsk-3 inhibtors) 

 

 

 



#2 stan08

  • Guest
  • 175 posts
  • 2
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 02 November 2017 - 05:55 PM

Ahh it's been awhile, gentlemen (and ladies)

I just wanted to say that in my quest to help heal my central nervous system and optimize my mood since a series of undeserved health setbacks and insults (car accident and fluoroquinolone toxicity being the most severe insults) - micro-dose lithium is one of the most noticeable and effective brain and mood hacks I've done in awhile - if not ever.

I've been taking 2mg of lithium daily and within a week I noticed an undeniable difference in my state of mind.

Mood, music enjoyment, socialbility, empathy and anxious behavior around people have all improved considerably.

You guys gotta get on this - pretty cheap sources on amazon and iherb (pure encap is a good brand- only take the 5mg EOD though, you only need a few MG daily..I find 5mg was way too overbeaering and made me a little lethargic and apathetic)


the product I personally took a product called rock calm - but it also has zinc and mag, I know GSK-3 inhibition is a big factor on mood and the zinc and lithium in rock calm may have some synergistic effect (zinc and lithium are potent gsk-3 inhibtors)

Something not right with that rock calm product. It claims there's 250 mg of elemental magnesium (as magnesium glycinate) along with 11 mg zinc and 2 mg lithium in one capsule. The magnesium itself would require a capsule large enough to hold more than 2 grams of product (due to large quantity of glycine bonded to 250 mg of magnesium)....and that's not even factoring in the other minerals (albeit at much lower doses).

Edited by stan08, 02 November 2017 - 05:56 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 CWF1986

  • Guest
  • 224 posts
  • 24
  • Location:Houston, Texas

Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:53 AM

I'm in.  I'll even keep my log of how this supp. is working out for me with weekly updates in this thread if that's okay with you crusader.  I'll be trying rock calm myself since I need to re-up on Mg and Zn anyway.  



#4 jack black

  • Guest
  • 1,294 posts
  • 28
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 08 November 2017 - 04:25 PM

I've been taking it for over a year and it noticeably improved my life. if i forget to take it for 2 days, I feel down on the 3rd day.

i take a bigger dose, 150mg of Li2CO3.



#5 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:19 PM

i read it was supposed to help with addictions like alcohol and such, but i never noticed anything from the simple 5mg dose up to 40mg dose for few weeks. in fact, i didnt notice anything at all except next day irritability. so supposedly really low doses can work but really high doses do not? very strange



#6 jack black

  • Guest
  • 1,294 posts
  • 28
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 10 November 2017 - 11:27 PM

i read it was supposed to help with addictions like alcohol and such, but i never noticed anything from the simple 5mg dose up to 40mg dose for few weeks. in fact, i didnt notice anything at all except next day irritability. so supposedly really low doses can work but really high doses do not? very strange

 

My theory is you have to be somewhat abnormal to benefit from it. I noticed some minimal (unpleasant) effects at low doses of oratate, but moved to carbonate and titrated it up and optimized time of day administration for max benefits.



#7 Kinesis

  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Pennsylvania USA
  • NO

Posted 11 November 2017 - 03:01 AM

At these levels, lithium may not be acting as a drug, but correcting a nutritional deficiency. Maybe lithium is an important if not essential trace element in human nutrition. And that when it’s lacking, the main impact is on mental health.

This study is one of a number that have found a connection between lack of lithium in drinking water and mental health problems:

Lithium levels in the public drinking water supply and risk of suicide: A pilot study

http://www.sciencedi...946672X16302887
  • Good Point x 1
  • Informative x 1

#8 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:27 PM

I wouldn't consider 2, or 5, or whatever mg dose of lithium a "micro-dose". Isn't that more like a therapeutic dose? One of LEF's brain health products only has 300mcg.



#9 Kinesis

  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Pennsylvania USA
  • NO

Posted 11 November 2017 - 05:04 PM

Microdose in this context is to distinguish it from therapeutic doses, which are in the hundreds of milligrams.

See for example https://online.epocr...um/Adult-Dosing
  • Agree x 1

#10 gamesguru

  • Guest
  • 3,465 posts
  • 428
  • Location:coffeelake.intel.int

Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:10 PM

yes but lithium orotate absorbs to the brain at a more alarming rate, hence less is needed to elicit a similar effect.  you would undoubtedly have a medical emergency if you took 200mg of orotate (stnd: 5mg elemental per tab)

 

i would say 1.25-2.5mg of orotate is in the "mini" dose range, but yes micro can mean much less.  mineral waters provide 150mcg or so per bottle, and that seems to be a more agreeable amount.  it has potent effects on mGlur5 and other goodies, but you want to enjoy those in moderation


  • Needs references x 2
  • like x 1

#11 Kinesis

  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Pennsylvania USA
  • NO

Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:38 PM

We're well into semantics territory, and there is subjective judgment involved.   I think it's fair to call up to 5 mg elemental lithium micro; calling it mini seems fair too.  The important point is that the doses involved are well below those used in medical lithium therapy.  Therapeutic levels push the bounds of toxicity and doctors routinely monitor blood levels with prescription lithium because of the narrow therapeutic range.  So if the concern here is about staying well clear of those dosage ranges (outside of medical supervision) we are in complete agreement.

 

It is important, however, to distinguish amounts of elemental lithium and the total amount of the compound containing it.  Sometimes labels give the former, sometimes the latter, and sometimes both.  I can easily take 200 mg of lithium orotate and not even notice, but would agree that 200 mg of elemental lithium in the form of orotate would be a heavy dose.

 

As far as the relative potency of orotate as compared to, say, carbonate, goes, I've heard it claimed before that orotate is more potent to the central nervous system, but haven't seen hard evidence.  I'd be interested if anyone can provide some.

 

 


  • like x 1

#12 LenaW

  • Guest
  • 9 posts
  • 3
  • Location:United States
  • NO

Posted 11 November 2017 - 07:08 PM

I started taking 5mg Lithium Aspartate daily after reading these articles:

 

https://www.nytimes....of-lithium.html

 

https://www.psycholo...hium-deficiency

 

http://www.jpands.or...o4/marshall.pdf

 

It is inexpensive, so I decided I might as well add it in.  I've been in a very good mood and have an increased sense of well-being for several months now.  I would say I've gone from content to downright hopeful and cheerful.  Is it the lithium or something else?  I don't know, but I'm sticking with it. 



#13 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:29 PM

i havent tried aspartate version only the orotate, but since i didnt feel anything maybe i will switch? im hoping to take it for depressive state and help with addictions but i dont think that is its main purpose and maybe thats why it didnt work for me?? i wonder how aspartate is different from orotate too.



#14 recon

  • Guest
  • 192 posts
  • 29
  • Location:left blank

Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:08 AM

i havent tried aspartate version only the orotate, but since i didnt feel anything maybe i will switch? im hoping to take it for depressive state and help with addictions but i dont think that is its main purpose and maybe thats why it didnt work for me?? i wonder how aspartate is different from orotate too.

I believe you should avoid orotate supplements. Katsyuba 2017 reports that orotic acid administration is linked with lower hepatic NAD+ levels and liver fat accumulation.

I’ve been using Lithium Orotate as well; just got them in the mail actually. Now I’m planning to switch to others, probably aspartate after I’ve done my research.

#15 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 12 November 2017 - 04:51 AM

i read lots of bad stuff about orotic acid but this has been discussed before how it is present naturally in foods and actually its way too little in the amount bond to lithium to cause much problems. i think you might have to take orotate version for an year regularly to accumulate some maybe.

anyway, thats not what worries me as much as the fact i dont really feel effect from lithium orotate and im pretty sure aspartate doesnt have much reliable science behind to make me try it yet



#16 gamesguru

  • Guest
  • 3,465 posts
  • 428
  • Location:coffeelake.intel.int

Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:17 PM

"accumulate" is a generous word given the context.  orotic acid has a half life of about 5 days[1], and your body must contain about 3-5 grams of it[2], [3], [4] before problems occur (take study #4, the rats are on a 1% orotate diet.  doesn't that strike you as a bit extreme and absurd? i mean 1%, really).

 

if you five tabs every five days it isn't so very different (neglecting transient phenomenon) from a continuous, modest IV drip (except you might lose a kidney).  the idea then that a quarter tab daily could somehow lead to a gradual build-up of toxic levels, it's pure suspicion with little maths to back it up

 

i would have a look at study 3 in particular, or just take my word for it that they find high levels of orotic acid toxic to both parasites and human cells but in the presence of about 150mg uridine it is only toxic to the parasites and no longer the human cells. interesting, right?  unfortunately it ends there.  i wouldn't run with these results, as i mentioned earlier, because you won't get that much orotate from lithium supplements without also losing a kidney.  but it's nice to know in practice that uridine pairs off well with a lithium supp (there are other reasons for this too, both in mania and epilepsy[5])


  • Agree x 1

#17 jack black

  • Guest
  • 1,294 posts
  • 28
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:24 PM

yes but lithium orotate absorbs to the brain at a more alarming rate, hence less is needed to elicit a similar effect.  you would undoubtedly have a medical emergency if you took 200mg of orotate (stnd: 5mg elemental per tab)

 

since someone requested references, here you go:

 

 

J Med Toxicol. 2007 Jun;3(2):61-2.
Lithium toxicity from an Internet dietary supplement.
Pauzé DK, Brooks DE.

Department of Emergency Medicine, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, Pittsburgh, PA, USA. pauzedk@upmc.edu

INTRODUCTION: The widespread availability of medications and herbal products on the Internet has increased the potential for poisonings. We are reporting a case of mild, acute lithium toxicity occurring after the intentional misuse of a lithium-containing "dietary supplement" (Find Serenity Now) obtained over the Internet. CASE REPORT: An 18-year-old woman presented to our emergency department (ED) after ingesting 18 tablets of Find Serenity Now; each tablet contained, according to the listing, 120 mg of lithium orotate [3.83 mg of elemental lithium per 100 mg of (organic) lithium orotate compared to 18.8 mg of elemental lithium per 100 mg of (inorganic) lithium carbonate]. The patient complained of nausea and reported one episode of emesis. Her examination revealed normal vital signs. The only finding was a mild tremor without rigidity. Almost 90 minutes after the ingestion, her serum lithium level was 0.31 mEq/L, a urine drug screen was negative, and an electrocardiogram (ECG) showed a normal sinus rhythm. The patient received intravenous fluids and an anti-emetic; one hour later, her repeat serum lithium level was 0.40 mEq/L. After 3 hours of observation, nausea and tremor were resolved, and she was subsequently transferred to a psychiatric hospital for further care. Prior human and animal data have shown similar pharmacokinetics and shared clinical effects of these lithium salts. DISCUSSION: Over-the-Internet dietary supplements may contain ingredients capable of causing toxicity in overdose. Chronic lithium toxicity from ingestion of this product is also of theoretical concern.

PMID: 18072162

 

you are sort of right, but it took 18x120mg orotate (90mg elemental Li) to cause "emergency" (it was really a therapeutic dose).



#18 pamojja

  • Guest
  • 2,837 posts
  • 720
  • Location:Austria

Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:55 PM

mineral waters provide 150mcg or so per bottle, and that seems to be a more agreeable amount.  it has potent effects on mGlur5 and other goodies, but you want to enjoy those in moderation

 

Donat Mg mineral water, which I drink up to 1 1/2 bottles a day for its high Mg content of 1000 mg/liter due to my sever Mg-deficiency, for example also contains 3.3 mg/l of lithium. Twice tested whole blood lithium came back at the upper end of normal range. As with so many other supplements, don't feel anything particular from that dose. Its Mg reliably prevents pain-full muscle cramps for me though.
 

 

PS: Their recommendation is to drink only a glass of this water a day due to it's laxative effect. So please don't copy my high intake right away  ;)

 

https://www.rogaska-...of-the-donat-mg


Edited by pamojja, 12 November 2017 - 07:04 PM.


#19 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:19 PM

ive had that water too and i didnt find it particularly helpful in any way compared to some other mineral waters that contain magnesium. first time i hear it has lithium though, i wonder if there is some table of mineral waters containing lithium since its not indicated on their label



#20 pamojja

  • Guest
  • 2,837 posts
  • 720
  • Location:Austria

Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:57 PM

ive had that water too and i didnt find it particularly helpful in any way compared to some other mineral waters that contain magnesium.

 

How strange, because most mineral waters contain about 50/100 mg/liter only.
 



#21 CWF1986

  • Guest
  • 224 posts
  • 24
  • Location:Houston, Texas

Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:43 AM

I find typical Mg supplement doses to be very relaxing and I start to get edgy and muscles that threaten to cramp up after exercise when I miss out on supplementation for more than several days.  

 

I'm hoping I might get a similar magnitude of effect from Li.  



#22 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 17 November 2017 - 12:20 AM

i restock with lithium orotate from KAL, and it says it has rice flour mixture in the capsule and i dont like it. the capsules are kind of big too i think, not sure how much orotate and rice flour is mixed with lithium at 5mg stated amount (not sure if 5mg total lithium + orotate or just lithium). anyway, ill try it again but i just dont like how its produced as first impression :/



#23 CWF1986

  • Guest
  • 224 posts
  • 24
  • Location:Houston, Texas

Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:53 AM

Just the 2mg elemental Li is doing good things.  It helps me just brush off the small stuff a lot easier.  It's calming and my mind doesn't race ahead as much.  It helps reduce adderall physical sides too.  



#24 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:03 PM

opposite here. lithium 5mg makes me feel sick and weird. i dont get enjoyment out of things now and it actually does opposite of what people claim, it actually makes me suicidal!

ive stopped for now but im confused as to why im the only one to react negative to it so far....



#25 Kinesis

  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Pennsylvania USA
  • NO

Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:52 PM

opposite here. lithium 5mg makes me feel sick and weird. i dont get enjoyment out of things now and it actually does opposite of what people claim, it actually makes me suicidal!
ive stopped for now but im confused as to why im the only one to react negative to it so far....


Possibly you are already getting enough lithium in your drinking water and food. Recall the studies I cited above about the relationship between naturally occurring lithium and mental health. As with most things we each have our individual optimal levels and more is not necessarily better.

#26 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:24 AM

yeah but i guess asking your doc to check your lithium levels would sound strange since its not common test here and it will be very nice to know.

btw i doubt i have good levels of the stuff. isnt it suppose to prevent suicidal behavior and various other mental instability issues? well, i havent noticed anything positive in that department



#27 normalizing

  • Guest
  • 2,692 posts
  • -104
  • Location:Warm Greetings
  • NO

Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:10 PM

they are picking up on Li orotate here; https://www.nutraing...flags-in-Canada in canada at least they call it prescription medication and i think FDA might pick on it too



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#28 Kinesis

  • Guest
  • 262 posts
  • 27
  • Location:Pennsylvania USA
  • NO

Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:18 PM

yeah but i guess asking your doc to check your lithium levels would sound strange since its not common test here and it will be very nice to know.
btw i doubt i have good levels of the stuff. isnt it suppose to prevent suicidal behavior and various other mental instability issues? well, i havent noticed anything positive in that department


You bet, hazy. Mainstream medicine tends to lag decades behind the research on nutrition related issues. Just to cite another example, researchers started turning up evidence against trans-fats way back in the 1970s. Didn’t find its way into the mainstream until after the turn of the millennium. One reason why places like LongeCity are so important!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: mood

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users