10 replies to this topic

[Starchild1337]

Well, I put it all in the title. Honestly, do they? Or do ADHD people and healthy people get the exact same measured benefits from using these drugs?

[tunt01]

ADHD should see a higher benefit, but I don't have any data to support this off the top of my head.

[jack black]

ADHD people gain more if you count negating ADHD symptoms, that are obviously disruptive.  If you're just talking test taking/IQ benefit, not sure there is a difference.  BTW, anxious types benefit less as stimulants make anxiety worse.

[evan45245]

For those with ADHD the mitigation of hyperactivity symptoms is likely to bring them higher benefit.

[sarah20]

In the long term, could the side-effects of the daily ADHD drugs on the system, such as raising cortisol, resulting in less slightly sleep per night due to earlier awakening, could this not be seen as disruptive cognitively? Or does it balance out in the long run?

[recon]

Those drugs should be negating the ADHD effects to return them back to baseline so theoretically they should be equal.

However, I believe that the dosage prescribed to them will give them an edge in terms of focus and some forms of cognition.

It’s quite difficult to quantify cognition on those. I don’t think IQ will be affected much by the intake of ADHD drugs.

[jack black]

 I don’t think IQ will be affected much by the intake of ADHD drugs.

 

you think wrong:

 

 

 

 

Effect of Methylphenidate on Intelligence Quotient Scores in Chinese Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder

Zhang, Lishan MD; Jin, Xingming MD; Zhang, Yiwen MD

Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology: February 2011 - Volume 31 - Issue 1 - pp 51-55

doi: 10.1097/JCP.0b013e3182060f3f

Original Contributions

 

• Abstract
• Author Information

Background: Stimulants are the most effective drugs for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) symptoms. The purpose of this study was to explore the intervention effect of methylphenidate, a commonly used stimulant, on cognitive performance in ADHD children and whether the effect is associated with age, sex, different subtypes of ADHD, and drug dosage.

Methods: Children with ADHD were divided into the following subtypes: combined type, predominantly inattentive type, and hyperactive/impulsive type. The intervention group consisted of 159 children treated with methylphenidate, and the control group consisted of 78 untreated patients. All 237 subjects were given a Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children - Revised test at baseline, and 6 months later, they were retested. The scores of Verbal Intelligence Quotient (IQ) test, Performance IQ (PIQ) test, Full Scale IQ (FSIQ) test, and subtests were compared before and after the intervention.

Results: At baseline, scores were not statistically different between the 2 groups. After 6 months, PIQ and FSIQ scores of intervention group were higher than those of the control group (P < 0.05). Compared with baseline scores, the intervention group, but not the control group, showed significant increases in Verbal IQ (P < 0.05), PIQ (P < 0.01), and FSIQ (P < 0.01). In the intervention group, the 5 subtests scores of PIQ improved significantly (P < 0.01). In the control group, none of the scores from the subtests showed statistical differences. Furthermore, there was no statistical difference between the change of IQ scores and children's age, sex, different subtypes of ADHD, and drug dosage.

Conclusions: Methylphenidate can enhance cognitive performance in ADHD patients thus evaluating their IQ scores, although the effect size seems to be relatively small. The result should not be indicated as an increase in intelligence.

i believe there is a similar effect on non-ADHD or else why would those normal kids in prep schools take it before ACT/SAT?

[gamesguru]

that's just one study bud.  i never did consider cocaine very healthy for the mind... (see below)

 

and the reason it works better for ADHD patients is dopamine specific.  it's like asking why antidpressants find greater utility in the context of depression.  it's addressing a larger deficit, and any side effects will be partly overshadowed by this beneficial effect

 

Methylphenidate and cocaine: the same effects on gene regulation?

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17963850

 

Yano M1, Steiner H.

Author information

Abstract

Methylphenidate (Ritalin), a psychostimulant used in the treatment of Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, has pharmacological effects similar to cocaine and amphetamine. Clinical use of methylphenidate, as well as diversion and abuse, have significantly increased during the past 10-15 years, heightening concerns regarding the long-term effects of methylphenidate on the developing brain. Here we review the effects of acute and repeated methylphenidate treatment on molecules of neuronal signaling and neuroplasticity (including transcription factors, neuropeptides, and components of second messenger cascades) and compare these molecular effects with those produced by cocaine and amphetamine. Some molecular changes, such as altered transcription factor gene regulation, are similar to those of cocaine and amphetamine. Other effects, notably those on the expression of opioid peptides and postsynaptic density molecules (Homer 1a), differ between methylphenidate and cocaine or amphetamine treatment. These differences support the notion that methylphenidate produces less neuroadaptations than cocaine and amphetamine, and might provide a molecular basis for reduced addiction liability of methylphenidate compared with these other psychostimulants.

 

Edited by gamesguru, 12 November 2017 - 10:22 PM.

[CWF1986]

ADHD people gain more if you count negating ADHD symptoms, that are obviously disruptive.  If you're just talking test taking/IQ benefit, not sure there is a difference.  BTW, anxious types benefit less as stimulants make anxiety worse.

 

I have anxiety and adhd and I started adhd medication before antidepressants and the adderall in an indirect way did help with anxiety by making me clearer headed and reducing my level of restlessness.

 

I'm not saying what you said is never true, only in that in such a circumstance ymmv.  

 

Also for those suffer from that predicament, taking anti-anxiety medication and/or antidepressants can help with that.  

[Starchild1337]

Yeah, about the anxiety thing... I'm also an anxious adhd sufferer and stimulants actually don't make me more anxious, because they give me confidence, and when I have confidence I have no reason to be anxious. I think many people are being wrongly treated with SSRIs to remove anxiety but instead their dopamine should be boosted. Sometimes your ADHD gives you depression (because you fall back on commitments, you disappoint ppl) and then they treat the depression and not the ADHD.

Edited by Indigont, 19 November 2017 - 02:54 PM.

[gamesguru]

the dopamine from these stimulants can have an anxiogenic effect depending on your norepinephrine status.  no real rhyme or reason either, one day you just wake up biting your nails and wonder what you ate, what you did, etc.  luckily it can be balanced out pretty easily by common "DBH inhibitors" that's dopamine beta hydroxylase.  they're ginseng, common wheat, and st johns.  all are pretty potent so you need only pick one, i've gone with wheat since the other two were causing some issues

 

you can also adjust your tyrosine/tryptophan ratio depending on your levels of motivation and happiness.  it's not like you have to intake the same foods everyday.. doing that may actually throw your body out of whack.  who knows

Edited by gamesguru, 19 November 2017 - 04:42 PM.