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Attempting to find a solution to my depression.

depressionanhedonia overnight change neurological

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#1 dreighver

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:22 AM


Hello all, I've been struggling with depression for 3 1/2 years now and figured I'd come here in an attempt to figure out a potential solution, or at a minimum, something that will help. I'll provide some brief detail about my history and reactions to certain drugs that may help determine what's going on.

 

I always considered myself happy, I haven't experienced any severe emotional trauma in my life and had an incredibly lucky and privileged upbringing. As my teens years started I develop obsessions and compulsions but I never associated them with any kind of real impairment or unhappiness. They got in the way at times but I always found myself relatively content and happy, and able to look forward to future events and be genuinely excited. IOW they were minor quirks in an otherwise mentally healthy person.

 

After graduating high school I began to use marijuana regularly and it was fantastic. Every experience was trippy, dreamlike, and incredibly positive. Although I slowly developed a tolerance the experience continued to be unbelievably positive. I felt it gave me the ability to have a balanced, well-adjusted outlook on life. I was better able to appreciate little things and live in the moment, so-to-speak. When I didn't have pot I was entirely fine, happy in fact. It seemed there were some carryover effects. I on one occasion used LSD at the age of 16-17'ish and it was pleasurable. In hindsight, my first experiences smoking pot (the first several months, and even beyond) were quite similar to my experience on LSD, just not as intense.

 

One night I took a friend's vyvanse, stayed up roughly 36 hours while smoking pot and drinking beer. I began to feel irritable, wired, and tired. This was the turning point, in hindsight. I finally fell asleep, woke up after a restful night's sleep, smoked pot and felt fantastic. Later that afternoon I felt for the first time what I'd call depression. An empty, hollow feeling of pure sadness that I had never in my life experienced before. I've never been the same person since.

 

These days I feel anywhere from sad to relatively unmotivated, anhedonic and disillusioned. I know rationally that I'm a capable person, I know rationally that I have a lot of things to be happy about in my life but things just don't make sense, they don't "click" (apologies for the ambiguous terms). I don't have a lack of confidence or self-esteem psychologically but I feel very timid around people, I'm afraid to disagree with others, I'm not nearly as assertive. I worry about the judgment of others to a crippling extent. I don't think I'm flawed or incapable, it's less psychological and more neurological, seemingly. I find myself constantly looking forward to things, that's the only time I feel happy. Pleasurable events in my life cheer me up and if I'm in the middle of a happy event, or looking forward to something, essentially distracted/stimulated, I feel normal. I feel a bit cognitively hazy, my short-term memory is awful, I just feel a tad out-of-touch with reality. My higher-level rational thinking actually seems better, but more basic stuff, instinctive functions (such as motor control) seem a bit slowed down. I'm not quite as sharp or quick when it comes to sports and video games anymore. 

 

When I smoke pot now it produces 10-15 minutes of an increase in mood, followed by a decrease in mood. I become anxious, antisocial, and I binge eat. Not like pleasant munchies, but I *have* to find sugar (or any carbs). I can tell it's a behavior to compensate for my decrease in mood, used to make me temporarily feel better. I also get an overall sense of disillusionment and a sense that the world is alien. I crave pot, I want that quick hit, but after smoking I always regret it. 

 

I've also taken small doses of LSD and shrooms on one occasion each since this depressive "break", and find that they worsen my mood as well, while prior they (and pot) gave me a massive mood boost.

 

Kratom, however, improves my mood significantly. I feel normal, I feel healthy. I can think clearly, I have my swagger and confidence back, I gain a great deal of self-confidence, I'm not as timid, and I feel content. However I've developed tolerance and withdrawals and no longer use it.

 

Here are the supplements and drugs I've tried, and the respective reactions to each:

 

St. John's Wort: After 4-5 weeks I was incredibly anxious, depressed, "wired" and had crippling insomnia. My mood worsened. 

5HTP: Provides temporary relief and takes the edge off, but I become incredibly apathetic and anhedonic after several weeks.

SAM-e: Temporary mood relief, however I became irritable after some time and felt a tad wired. 

Wellbutrin: I tried this several months ago and after 4 days of hell I stopped. I felt flat, hollow, empty, and wired. Jaw-clenching, trouble sleeping, overall a worsening of pure melancholic depression. I've began taking it again recently, in combination with saffron and low-dose lithium orotate (4.6mg 2x per day) and it seems to be giving me more energy with fewer side-effects. It's still early, though.

Saffron: Seemed to take the edge off a bit, make me happier. Currently taking this.

Lithium Orotate: This has been godsend. It takes the edge off, gives me some confidence, I'm less anxious and self-aware. Hands-down the best supplement I've taken throughout this spell, but not quite enough.

NAC: Seems to calm me down but worsen my depression a bit.

Turmeric/Curcumin: I was taking just turmeric/curcumin (with black pepper extract) at one point and it helped my mood immensely. I felt entirely normal, however the effects were short-lived, lasting only several hours after the dose. I still take this today but the effects seem less noticeable. 

 

I'm sure there are plenty of other things I've tried that are slipping my mind but I hope this helps.

 

Maybe with this information some suggestions could be made? This more resembles a dysthymia/atypical depression than a traditional melancholic depression. I tend to think it's more dopamine/endorphin/NMDA related than purely serotonin, although I'm sure the latter is involved to some extent. I know people with depression often find relief by microdosing LSD, or by smoking pot, whereas I seem less reactive to those and they only worsen my mood. My issues seem to be entirely neurological, as I feel my outlook on life and psychological patterns and thought processes are quite well adapted. 

 

Any suggestions and thoughts would be appreciated.

 


Edited by dreighver, 18 November 2017 - 12:27 AM.


#2 jack black

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 03:25 AM

i'm not a professional in this field, so this is a bit my speculation, but here you go. you overstimulated some neuronal circuits (dopaminegic and/or glutamatenergic is my guess) and you either burned out the neurons (apoptopsis) or receptors (downregulation). look up excitotoxicity.   

 

you need to concentrate on rebuilding your neurons/connections. lithium is known to do it, maybe you need to boost the dose some. look at all the strategies to boost BDNF, too.

 

i also struggle from atypical depression, but in my case it's triggered by chronic stress and PTSD.

 

good luck!



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#3 gamesguru

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 06:08 AM

you're doing a lot of things right but may need to dial in a few more before you see true results.  for me, it was too much tryptophan and methionine, not taking a break from tea (which ties in with methylation), and just generally being a slouch with my working out, fasting/cooking and just my attitude too.  negative outcomes and negative attitudes have a way of shaping you, after a while you dont forgive people you replace them



#4 dreighver

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 08:40 PM

i'm not a professional in this field, so this is a bit my speculation, but here you go. you overstimulated some neuronal circuits (dopaminegic and/or glutamatenergic is my guess) and you either burned out the neurons (apoptopsis) or receptors (downregulation). look up excitotoxicity.   

 

you need to concentrate on rebuilding your neurons/connections. lithium is known to do it, maybe you need to boost the dose some. look at all the strategies to boost BDNF, too.

 

i also struggle from atypical depression, but in my case it's triggered by chronic stress and PTSD.

 

good luck!

 

Thanks for the response. I'm not a neurologist myself so you're right to say this is all speculation, but your explanation seems reasonable and makes sense given the circumstances. 

 

I tend to think that my chronic marijuana use prior to this depressive 'break' didn't *cause* the depression, but potentially altered my brain in such a way that made me vulnerable to, or 'primed' my brain for, if you will, depression, with the vyvanse usage and sleep deprivation being the ultimate cause.

 

It's a bummer because had I not taken that vyvanse -- specifically at the time I did -- I suspect I'd be merrily smoking pot and living happily. Such is life.

 

I'll see about increasing my dosage of lithium. Also, as attached as I am to pot psychologically (lots of good memories from my teen years which makes it difficult to let go, hoping one day it can be a fun and harmless habit again) I think it would be best if I stopped using it. I could see it perpetuating my condition and preventing my brain from fully recovering. Common sense and my subjective experience with it bear this out. 

 

Are there any other supplements or drugs I could be using, or other activities and practices that may help? I exercise fairly regularly which I suspect helps (~50 pullups and ~100 pushups 4-5 days per week). I'll also do some research and digging on my own.

 

In the meantime I'll continue taking my Wellbutrin (I'm on day four now) and cease using pot. Hopefully these two things in combination will help to kick-start my dopamine a bit.


Edited by dreighver, 19 November 2017 - 08:42 PM.


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#5 jack black

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:55 AM

Have you looked into BDNF? you might find this useful:

http://www.longecity...-increase-bdnf/

 

BTW, i made a cursory search on marijuana and found this:

 

Cannabis: Potent Anti-depressant In Low Doses, Worsens Depression At High Doses

https://www.scienced...71023183937.htm


Edited by jack black, 20 November 2017 - 01:01 AM.





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