5 replies to this topic

[foreseason]

I am looking for some feedback about my gabapentin withdrawal and the possibility of switching to Phenibut for the remainder of the taper. I’ll try and explain my reasoning and hopefully some of you pharmacology wizzes can let me know if my logic makes any sense.

I also know baclofen is another option, but I am not as familiar with it. I’d be open to any info on that choice as well.

I was prescribed gabapentin 6 years ago and have been on it ever since. Like many others, it was portrayed to me as this benign harmless medication. Also, like others, I have come to find it is anything but. Gabepentin withdrawal is the worst withdrawal I have expienced, and that’s compared to the heroin and benzo withdrawals I had years before I got sober. Even at a super slow taper it’s still difficult. It’s taken me 6 months to get from 1200mg to 600mg so I still have a long road ahead of me.

The reasons I have been considering switching to phenibut or baclofen for the rest of the taper are:

1. Gabapentin has a short half life and requires 3 or sometimes 4 daily doses. I get interdose withdrawals and even just missing a dose by an hour makes me feel like shit. Although phenibut seems to have an equally short half life, everything I’ve read abouy it imply the effects last quite long. It seems people can get away with twiceor sometimes even once daily Dosing. I would be ecstatic to be able to only dose twice a day.

2. Gabapentin has weird bioavailability issues that change based on dose and just seem unpredictable overall. I have no idea about phenibut bioavailability, but I was guessing it’s better or more consistent.

3. Gabapentin has taken a psychological toll on me. This whole experience has sucked and I have grown to despise the medication and the people who put me on it. This may be crazy, but I feel like it would be a mental relief to be off the gabapenin, even if I was just trading it for another dependence.

I feel like I had another reason but can’t think of it right now. Regardless, I am well aware that all of these substances have very difficult withdrawals. I don’t have some delusion that I will somehow avoid them if I switch to something else. I just feel like there’s some pharmacological differences between them which may make the taper a bit easier or more manageable.

I’d love some feedback, and if my logic is flawed I’ll just stick to my gabapentin taper and do my best.

Thank you!

[Galaxyshock]

Phenibut is highly habit forming, then again maybe it can be easier off with a drug that has two other mechanisms of action to help (GABA-B agonism and TAAR1-antagonism) besides the calcium channel blockade. Personally I would try if Gotu Kola helps, you can take it up to 12 grams a day, people often use it similarly to Pregabalin. Or maybe a short course of benzos? Baclofen won't be affecting calcium channels, only GABA-B, not sure if it's that much help.

[foreseason]

Phenibut is highly habit forming, then again maybe it can be easier off with a drug that has two other mechanisms of action to help (GABA-B agonism and TAAR1-antagonism) besides the calcium channel blockade. Personally I would try if Gotu Kola helps, you can take it up to 12 grams a day, people often use it similarly to Pregabalin. Or maybe a short course of benzos? Baclofen won't be affecting calcium channels, only GABA-B, not sure if it's that much help.

I appreciate the reply. Although I’m aware phenibut is highly habit forming, I don’t think that really matters in this situation. I’m already dependent on gabapentin and if I was to switch to Phenibut, I’d immediately be dependent on it. My plan is a very slow taper regardless of what I’m tapering from. I just thought I might be better off tapering off Phenibut be gabapentin.

Baclofen actually does have a calcium channel blocking mechanism similar to gabapentinoids.

I looked into gotu kola and it does sound promising. I may have to give that a try. Thank you.

Edited by foreseason, 27 November 2017 - 09:27 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Isn't Phenibut fairly famous for building tolerance very rapidly?

 

Doing a taper on a drug who's effects will diminish rapidly with time on a level dose doesn't strike me as a real fun time.

 

 

 

[Galaxyshock]

A lot of us find that Phenibut tolerance builds quite quickly to somewhere 2-4 grams range but stays there, and the therapeutic effects don't diminish as long as you don't seek the euphoria. Then again I don't know if tapering off from that is any easier than from gabapentin doses, or if you can trick the brain with a bit differing substances to make the wds more easier. Supposably benzos for 1-2 weeks wipe Phenibut withdrawals completely but that only has few case experiences to back it up, I personally think the wds linger much longer even when the acute phase is over.

 

I had the impression that Baclofen's effect on calcium channels is very weak according to John Gona's (Oracle Laboratories) postings on gabapentinoids.

[Kinesis]

Phenibut and gabapentin are strikingly similar compounds both in terms of molecular structure and mechanism of action. Check out for example the Wikipedia entries on them. This being the case, I have little doubt that phenibut could ease the symptoms of gabapentin withdrawal.

As others have pointed out however, this comes with a major caveat. Phenibut itself is notorious for tolerance and withdrawal. So this tack could easily wind up just converting one tolerance and withdrawal problem into another. If you decide to attempt this, I strongly recommend that you have an exit strategy for phenibut in place before putting your switch plan into action. It may well just be more straightforward to skip the middleman and implement a taper strategy on the gabapentin directly.