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The "Quititng Weed" Thread

cannabis addiction withdrawal anxiety depression

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#1 gamesguru

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:06 AM


These days it seems everyone is hooked on it, the skater kid, the lady down the street, even the president. Whether fate was in their genes or whether a friend introduced them in high school, who can blame them? Some are hooked so badly they find themselves smoking all day long to no effect, and others experience cravings and pangs that keep them from quitting at all.  So what's there to do about all this?  Unfortunately, as you can tell by my effectiveness ratings, I am struggling with the sad state of affairs to sift through the best that 2017 has to offer.  (Funny that meanwhile, almost effortlessly Granny Storm compiles a list of positives and his literature continues to grow)

 

Doctors themselves have yet to agree on a prescription antidote, making cannabis dependency a tricky situation. Even if it doesn't reduce you to complete dysfunction there's still no denying it leaves its mark.

 

In a certain sense you will always be hooked, once you go kush you never go back.  But you could still make things easier on yourself, and I would be happy for you to prove me wrong. That's why I'm about to share with you the best tools I know of for this kind of stuff. In taking the plunge, you’re inevitably going to feel a hedonic shift. It will last some weeks. My goal is simply to minimize it and make the journey as pleasant as possible.

 

In going through these studies you'll notice a lot involving morphine, partly because that's all I could find and partly because it shares a lot of qualities in common with THC[1], [2], [3], [4]

 

Magnesium, zinc and theanine

weak and slimy, these have their place more as an adjunctive than a primary treatment.  I would even place them in the league of ginger in the sense that they don’t taste so great and you have to keep taking them every day to see results

effectiveness: 3/10

bonus points: if you can use the placebo effect and your beer goggles to will it up to a 6/10. helps with anxiety and depression more than addiction

citations (for addiction)

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/15893381/

[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16710121

[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/1844558

[3]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4523930/

[4]https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22935630

 

CBD

surreal and crafty, tasty and without oily residue it is however expensive and not widely available to the public. Some also may not appreciate the pseudo-narcotic feel of their new anti-anxiety med

effectiveness: 6/10

bonus points: super effective from day 1. Antagonizes THC at the molecular level and has systemic benefits of its own. The very act of smoking or eating a CBD strain confuses your brain, like a tobacco smoker putting a cigarette in his or her mouth without actually lighting it

citations

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4444130/

[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4718203/

[3]https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28793355

 

Ginger

slow and subtle, cheap and easy to prepare in different ways, it is fairly effective. on the downside it takes weeks of consistent use to see results and tastes extremely spicy

effectiveness: 3/10

bonus points: appetite stimulant, nausea/diarrhea suppressant, and although irrelevant to addiction it improves memory by opposing cannabis induced synaptic LTD

citations

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4137441/

 

Turmeric

dry and chalky, warm and energizing. While you can’t make gingerale out of it, you can work it into a a surprising number of dishes without people noticing

effectiveness: 3/10

bonus points: if you make rice with it and trick your friends into thinking it's saffron. Good for arthritis, epilepsy, anhedonia

citations

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4352596/

[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3629220/

 

Health club

hot and sweaty, exercise releases endocananbinoids and endorphins which help to lessen withdrawal symptoms. Albeit not very significantly, but it was still deserving of a mention seeing as it regulates inflammation, dopamine and serotonin as well.

effectiveness: 4/10

bonus points: you can sip tea, meditate on the elliptical and kill three birds with one stone

citations

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3050879/

 

Smashing yo bong in da middle of the road

quick and dirty. Not the most common method, but i have seen it work

effectiveness: 2/10

bonus points: if you can actually pull it off

[1]youtube.com/watch?v=jI5fvDO9yzE

[2]youtube.com/watch?v=fLdfw9O8lLw

 

 

honorable mentions: NAC (n-acetylcysteine) and Entacapone ('script only)


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#2 Kinesis

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:45 AM

Got me thinking, GG. One thought is that, and this may not be a separate thing as much as part of any approach, is to replace it with something that engages you. Life, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Trying to remove a habit per se, leaving nothing but an empty hole where it used to be, is extremely difficult. Replacing one habit with another, less so. Choose a new activity or project that gives you something to look forward to, and then instead of just a negative process of cutting something out, it’s a positive one of adding something good.

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#3 sthira

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:25 AM

Life, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Trying to remove a habit per se, leaving nothing but an empty hole where it used to be, is extremely difficult. Replacing one habit with another, less so. Choose a new activity or project that gives you something to look forward to, and then instead of just a negative process of cutting something out, it’s a positive one of adding something good.


I agree with this. And rather than quitting mother herb altogether (which to me is foolish) moderate it. Rather than treating it like a party drug, use it responsibly when needed. Easier said than done for many, I totally get it, but it can be done. I mean, I was a major pothead, now I've released it, I like and benefit more than ever (strains are so incredibly varied nowadays).

CBD
surreal and crafty, tasty and without oily residue it is however expensive and not widely available to the public. Some also may not appreciate the pseudo-narcotic feel of their new anti-anxiety med
effectiveness: 6/10
bonus points: super effective from day 1. Antagonizes THC at the molecular level and has systemic benefits of its own. The very act of smoking or eating a CBD strain confuses your brain, like a tobacco smoker putting a cigarette in his or her mouth without actually lighting it
citations
[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4444130/
[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4718203/
[3]https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28793355


CBD oil has been life changing for me. I know that sounds dramatic, but I mean it. I may be an outlier, but CBD has effectively knocked out both deep, unrelenting depression and shitty ass anxiety. I'm going on six months now; CBD has worked for me like no pharmaceutical, supplement, psychotherapist, psychiatrist, mindfulness practice, meditation, or breathing exercises ever have.

But you're right it's expensive.

For me, though, the expense is worth it -- CBD beats down suffering, I hope it stays effective long term until better treatment options become available.

I credit CBD for helping to me get out of bed, giving a damn about my life again, ending chronic suicidal thinking (I was so close to goodbye), reengaging in my career, dating again, yikes, cleaning up my place, repainting, redecorating, buying stuff I've needed -- actually caring rather than just moving through the motions like the automaton I'd become. Coffee plus CBD plus yoga has been my cure.

These days it seems everyone is hooked on it, the skater kid, the lady down the street, even the president...


Wait, what? Obama we understand, he's cool. But this wackadoodle in office currently is a pothead? No way, man. Actually, though, I think Trump could totally use some sweet indica to chill the fuck out and get off our case.

#4 Kinesis

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 05:19 AM

Life, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Trying to remove a habit per se, leaving nothing but an empty hole where it used to be, is extremely difficult. Replacing one habit with another, less so. Choose a new activity or project that gives you something to look forward to, and then instead of just a negative process of cutting something out, it’s a positive one of adding something good.


I agree with this. And rather than quitting mother herb altogether (which to me is foolish) moderate it. Rather than treating it like a party drug, use it responsibly when needed. Easier said than done for many, I totally get it, but it can be done. I mean, I was a major pothead, now I've released it, I like and benefit more than ever (strains are so incredibly varied nowadays).

I agree with this too. Based on similar personal experience, I think occasional use is fine, even beneficial. I had to go from heavy use to no use for a while first, but like you, once having released it, believe I’m better off with a little than with none.

...

Edited by Kinesis, 09 December 2017 - 05:25 AM.


#5 Galaxyshock

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:41 AM

Perhaps boosting endocannabinoids is a good course of action here.

 

Somehing like

Maca (FAAH-inhibitor)

Black Pepper (endocannabinoid reuptake inhibitor and CB2 agonism)

Turmeric (Curcumin which was mentioned has CB1 affinity)

Agmatine (potentiates cannabinoidergic signaling)



#6 Jiminy Glick

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:43 PM

Kratom can get you off weed and is not addictive though you would think it is by reading articles. Though maybe it just isn't addictive to me. You obviously need to have other stuff in your stack, not just Kratom, but I would think it would be easy to get off weed. 


Edited by Jiminy Glick, 10 December 2017 - 01:48 PM.


#7 gamesguru

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:05 AM

Got me thinking, GG. One thought is that, and this may not be a separate thing as much as part of any approach, is to replace it with something that engages you. Life, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Trying to remove a habit per se, leaving nothing but an empty hole where it used to be, is extremely difficult. Replacing one habit with another, less so. Choose a new activity or project that gives you something to look forward to, and then instead of just a negative process of cutting something out, it’s a positive one of adding something good.

the problem with being such an efficient worker is you end up with a lot of down time.. where ever there is a difficult task to accomplish, a lazy man is sure to find an easy way of doing it  and i really don't do well in or have patience for groups

 

CBD oil has been life changing for me.
is it something.. were you smoking regular strains alongside, or more of a pure CBD thing?
 

Agmatine (potentiates cannabinoidergic signaling)

add quercetin to that list.  but in all reality this is like trading aspirin for morphine

 

Kratom can get you off weed and is not addictive though you would think it is by reading articles. Though maybe it just isn't addictive to me. You obviously need to have other stuff in your stack, not just Kratom, but I would think it would be easy to get off weed. 

the only person i know who dabbled in kratom and weed isn't really doing much with his life



#8 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:48 PM

 

Got me thinking, GG. One thought is that, and this may not be a separate thing as much as part of any approach, is to replace it with something that engages you. Life, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Trying to remove a habit per se, leaving nothing but an empty hole where it used to be, is extremely difficult. Replacing one habit with another, less so. Choose a new activity or project that gives you something to look forward to, and then instead of just a negative process of cutting something out, it’s a positive one of adding something good.

the problem with being such an efficient worker is you end up with a lot of down time.. where ever there is a difficult task to accomplish, a lazy man is sure to find an eashy way of doing it  and i really don't do well in or have patience for groups

 

 

It really pays off to find a fun activity that does not involve getting high.



#9 gamesguru

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:09 PM

It really pays off to find a fun activity that does not involve getting high.

 

i have plenty of hobbies, problem is they're all boring.  so at least i'm told, i have no problem really occupying myself.  but shall i pretend to be someone i'm not just to create the illusion of friendship?  i dont see a problem smoking at night to enjoy music, or to continue working on something you've been working on for 12 hours.

 

and if you suggest a guy a lot of his impairments will go away when he quits, i suggest he may be a little upset at you when he finds out they don't.  it's easy for you to say if you aren't dealing with a dispersion of personality disorders, but for somebody else, the boy down the block who wheels himself everyday across 8 mile to sell mattresses for minimum wage at part time, his life is hard in ways you will never know

 

 

Abnormal GABAergic Function and Negative Affect in Schizophrenia
Stephan F Taylor,1,* Elise Demeter,2 K Luan Phan,3 Ivy F Tso,4 and Robert C Welsh5
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3924534/

Prolonged cannabinoid exposure alters GABA(A) receptor mediated synaptic function in cultured hippocampal neurons.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21324315
These findings demonstrate that agonist-induced downregulation of the CB1 receptor in hippocampal cultures results in neuronal hyperexcitability that may be attributed, in part, to alterations in both presynaptic GABA release mechanisms and postsynaptic GABA(A) receptor function demonstrating a novel role for cannabinoid-dependent presynaptic control of neuronal transmission.

Social anxiety and coping motives for cannabis use: The impact of experiential avoidance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24274436

 


Edited by gamesguru, 16 December 2017 - 01:33 PM.


#10 sativa

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:57 PM

It really pays off to find a fun activity that does not involve getting high.


Perhaps you could consider the connotations of the word high?

High could apply to the natural endocannabinoid psychoactive effect experienced by long distance runners, or, the opioid mediated pleasure effects of socialising with others/eating food - particularly food which contains precursors for active opioid peptides

Also known as gliadorphins, these peptides are opioid-like compounds that behave much like morphine in the brain. They are intermediate byproducts of gluten...


Look at these for example:

49 Ways to Increase Natural Cannabinoids Without Smoking Pot (including ways that decrease cannabinoids) https://selfhacked.c...e-cannabinoids/


Many common supplements increase cannabinoid activity.

Not to mention all of these:
https://drugs-forum....1/#post-1641074

From the above link:

**Activation of TRPV1 is shown to cause a release of Anandamide (0.05 pmol/ micro L to more then 2 pmol/ micro L)** ...which may be why I felt like Citral had a "Marijuana type of feel to it", since Anandamide is known to activate the Cannabinoid 1 Receptor like THC from Marijuana.
...
Anandamide also is known to activate TRPV1, which may mean that Anandamide would produce even more Anandamide after activating TRPV1!
...
Citral also may inhibit CYP2B6
...
Which may prevent Anandamide from Metabolizing into other things


P450 enzymes also are responsible for metabolising endocannabinoids.

CYP3A4, CYP2D6, CYP2B6 and CYP2C19 are polymorphic CYPs that are known to metabolize xenobiotic substances and several endogenous ligands such as polyunsaturated fatty acids aka ANADAMIDE.

Thus, any inhibitors of CYP3A4/CYP2D6/CYP2B6/CYP2C19 would apparently constitute/contribute to getting 'high' ;)

Edited by sativa, 16 December 2017 - 03:11 PM.


#11 gamesguru

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 03:25 PM

The role of serotonin in human mood and social interaction. Insight from altered tryptophan levels.
 
 
Selective Reduction of THC’s Unwanted Effects through Serotonin Receptor Inhibition
The authors explored the behavioral consequences of this dual-receptor signaling using both 5HT2AR knockout mice and 5HT2AR antagonists in mice (Fig 1). In both cases, absence of 5HT2AR signaling reduced the amnesic effects of THC in a standard memory test; the anxiolytic effects, based on the amount of time the mice spent in an open aversive compartment; and the social facilitation effects, based on the amount of time the mice spent interacting with littermates. Reduction of all these effects could also be induced by administering a synthetic peptide that specifically prevented formation of the heterodimer, indicating its crucial role in mediating this subset of THC’s effects.
 
looks like i might have to add bacopa to the list, it appears good on most of these fronts.  it has specific studies on 5-HT2A and 2C which aren't included for brevity's sake
... In the present study, effect of BM was evaluated on acute stress (AS) and chronic unpredictable stress (CUS) induced changes in plasma corticosterone and monoamines-noradrenaline (NA), dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) in cortex and hippocampus regions of brain in rats. Panax root powder (Panax quinquefolium) was taken as standard. Subjecting animals to AS (immobilization for 150 min once only) and CUS (different stressors for 7 days) resulted in significant elevation in plasma corticosterone levels, which was significantly countered by treatment with BM at a dose of 40 and 80 mg/kg p.o. similar to the effects of Panax quinquefolium (PQ) at 100 mg/kg p.o. AS exposure significantly increased the levels of 5-HT and decreased NA content in both the brain regions while DA content was significantly increased in cortex and decreased in hippocampus regions. In CUS regimen, levels of NA, DA and 5-HT were significantly depleted in cortex and hippocampus regions of brain. Treatment with BM (40 and 80 mg/kg) attenuated the stress induced changes in levels of 5-HT and DA in cortex and hippocampus regions but was ineffective in normalizing the NA levels in AS model, whereas PQ treatment significantly reverted back the effects of stress. In CUS model, pretreatment with BM and PQ significantly elevated the levels of NA, DA and 5-HT levels in cortex and levels of NA and 5-HT in hippocampus regions. Hence, our study indicates that the adaptogenic activity of BM might be due to the normalization of stress induced alteration in plasma corticosterone and levels of monoamines like NA, 5-HT and DA in cortex and hippocampus regions of the brain, which are more vulnerable to stressful conditions analogous to the effects of PQ.
 
... Bacopa monnieri possesses anti-nociceptive activity [30] mediated through opioidergic mechanisms [88], enhances the morphine anti-nociceptive effects [66], increases synaptic plasticity [97], up-regulates vesicular glutamate transporter type 2 (VGLUT2) [98] and decreases the immunodensity of glutamate/N-methyl-D- aspartate receptor subtype 1 (NMDAR1) [99]. What is more, Bacopa monnieri increases GABA, GABAA receptor subunit, GABAA receptor binding and up-regulation of GAD gene [11]. Additionally, Bacopa monnieri decreases the release of TNF-α and IL-6 [22] and inhibits the activities of COX-2, LOX-5 and LOX-15 [21]. Herbal medicines are reported to be beneficial in the management of painful neuropathy [100–102] and recently there has been a dramatic increase in the use of complementary and alternative medicine especially herbal therapies, to reduce pain [103–105].

 

 

 

might even good for self-harm, nail biting etc

... In summary, the most consistent results from
studies on the involvement of neurotransmitters in
NSSI are reduced levels of cortisol and endogenous
opioids, which suggest an altered stress response.
Findings on other neurotransmitters like serotonin and
dopamine are inconsistent and imply further research
in this field.
 
i'm not sure about the cortisol, it's possible bacopa regulates it in both directions.  or perhaps you need something else, like nicotine, grapefruit juice, or vigorous exercise to stimulate a normal cortisol response?  i have noticed bacopa makes me a bit cranky and on the edge
Grapefruit juice and its flavonoids inhibit 11 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase.
Lee YS1, Lorenzo BJ, Koufis T, Reidenberg MM.
The enzyme 11 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11 beta-OHSD) oxidizes cortisol to inactive cortisone. Its congenital absence or inhibition by licorice increases cortisol levels at the mineralocorticoid receptor, causing mineralocorticoid effects. We tested the hypothesis that flavonoids found in grapefruit juice inhibit this enzyme in vitro and that grapefruit juice itself inhibits it in vivo...
 
Muted stress response linked to long-term cannabis use
Date: July 31, 2017
Source: Washington State University
Summary: A new study reveals a dampened physiological response to stress in chronic cannabis users. This is the first study to examine the effects of acute stress on salivary cortisol levels in chronic cannabis users compared to non-users.

 

 
it's also possible that balance is the key, and that's why we keep seeing conflicting studies.
... Moreover, elevations in cortisol were associated with negative symptoms and IL-2 with positive symptoms. In all, 12 weeks of risperidone treatment significantly decreased elevated cortisol and improved negative symptoms, but produced similar effects on IL-2 and IL-6 as well as on positive symptoms compared to haloperidol. The improvement of negative symptoms was related to the change in cortisol.

 



#12 Galaxyshock

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:52 PM

 

 

Agmatine (potentiates cannabinoidergic signaling)

add quercetin to that list.  but in all reality this is like trading aspirin for morphine

 

 

 

Yeah it won't replicate the effects of the drug but should be enough to provide adaptogenic, anxiolytic and anti-depressive relief for withdrawal. Maca is pretty potent stuff if you get the gelatinized Black variety, add the synergistic compounds and you're good. Perhaps adding anti-addiction protocol like NAC, baclofen and St. John's Wort if there's still cravings.



#13 gamesguru

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:25 PM

Yeah it won't replicate the effects of the drug but should be enough to provide adaptogenic, anxiolytic and anti-depressive relief for withdrawal. Maca is pretty potent stuff if you get the gelatinized Black variety, add the synergistic compounds and you're good. Perhaps adding anti-addiction protocol like NAC, baclofen and St. John's Wort if there's still cravings.

NAC is honestly great for a lot of things, methylation, aging, oxidation, it's just personally one of those things i prefer to keep in my back pocket til i'm a bit older.   and i'm just saying that cos i've thrown a lot of stuff back in the mix lately and i don't feel like placing another amazon order -.-



#14 Jiminy Glick

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:37 PM

 

Life, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Trying to remove a habit per se, leaving nothing but an empty hole where it used to be, is extremely difficult. Replacing one habit with another, less so. Choose a new activity or project that gives you something to look forward to, and then instead of just a negative process of cutting something out, it’s a positive one of adding something good.


I agree with this. And rather than quitting mother herb altogether (which to me is foolish) moderate it. Rather than treating it like a party drug, use it responsibly when needed. Easier said than done for many, I totally get it, but it can be done. I mean, I was a major pothead, now I've released it, I like and benefit more than ever (strains are so incredibly varied nowadays).

CBD
surreal and crafty, tasty and without oily residue it is however expensive and not widely available to the public. Some also may not appreciate the pseudo-narcotic feel of their new anti-anxiety med
effectiveness: 6/10
bonus points: super effective from day 1. Antagonizes THC at the molecular level and has systemic benefits of its own. The very act of smoking or eating a CBD strain confuses your brain, like a tobacco smoker putting a cigarette in his or her mouth without actually lighting it
citations
[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4444130/
[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4718203/
[3]https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28793355


CBD oil has been life changing for me. I know that sounds dramatic, but I mean it. I may be an outlier, but CBD has effectively knocked out both deep, unrelenting depression and shitty ass anxiety. I'm going on six months now; CBD has worked for me like no pharmaceutical, supplement, psychotherapist, psychiatrist, mindfulness practice, meditation, or breathing exercises ever have.

But you're right it's expensive.

For me, though, the expense is worth it -- CBD beats down suffering, I hope it stays effective long term until better treatment options become available.

I credit CBD for helping to me get out of bed, giving a damn about my life again, ending chronic suicidal thinking (I was so close to goodbye), reengaging in my career, dating again, yikes, cleaning up my place, repainting, redecorating, buying stuff I've needed -- actually caring rather than just moving through the motions like the automaton I'd become. Coffee plus CBD plus yoga has been my cure.

These days it seems everyone is hooked on it, the skater kid, the lady down the street, even the president...


Wait, what? Obama we understand, he's cool. But this wackadoodle in office currently is a pothead? No way, man. Actually, though, I think Trump could totally use some sweet indica to chill the fuck out and get off our case.

 

 

Oh really? I would have never guessed. 


Edited by Jiminy Glick, 16 December 2017 - 11:38 PM.


#15 fiftyyy

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:57 PM

once you go kush you never go back

 

Wtf, seriously? Quitting weed isnt even hard. A lot of people are just irresponsible for that habbit. Personally, I dont have any habbits when it comes to weed. I can smoke for months and be sober for months. In most case, within 2 days of cessation i feel like i've never smoked in my life. No withdraws, maybe slightly tougher first day, but thats it.The biggest issue imo is the content of THC, smoking anything with 15%+ THC is kind of counter productive for me, as the higher the THC content, the higher the side effects. I usually stick to "mediocre"/bio weed to avoid the side effects and keep the stress in check.

 

Another big mistake IMO, when it comes to weed, is that some people tend to drink alcohol along, which is a big no no for me. Really messes up memory, from personal experience. Nowadays i dont drink more than 2-3 beers per month and i've  never felt better tbh, also memory feels great. Im able to recall stuff from situations, where ive been heavily intoxicated.

 

Bio/mid-grade weed and alcohol is the way to go.  

 

 


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#16 CWF1986

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:22 AM

If someone smokes it as a way of self-medicating, then getting at the root on the issue will probably be more helpful than anything.

 

That could mean lifestyle changes like exercise, healthy eating, and more socializing.  It could psychotherapy, or nootropics and or even psychiatric meds.  And any combination of the above.  

 

Once I had my anxiety issues well under control, smoking cravings rarely happen and they're not that strong when I do get them.  



#17 Galaxyshock

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 04:05 PM

Naltrexone seems to be good to fight addiction:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4569951/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3091262/


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#18 gamesguru

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 01:58 PM

Naltrexone seems to be good to fight addiction

 

it can cause long-term anhedonia or dysphoria in opiate users, ironically the very ones trying to profit from it!  doctors throwing all these things at a patient, it can sometimes backfire.  like if you trip acid during an SSRI withdrawal.  i'm sure naltrexone wouldn't cause marijuana users any similar issues, but you never know, and i do think it's a bit extreme for the context.  maybe a last resort

 

 

Wtf, seriously? Quitting weed isnt even hard.

 

Depends really on the strength of the weed, the age of onset, and your particular genes.



#19 sthira

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:22 PM

Wtf, seriously? Quitting weed isnt even hard.


Depends really on the strength of the weed, the age of onset, and your particular genes.

At least it's not physiologically addicting, maybe fiftyyy meant. I think marijuana -- and there are soooo many flavors -- in moderate doses is a health benefit, not a detriment. Like dark chocolate, bud is one of life's pleasures that has profound upsides when used responsibly. Like some people can't handle chocolate moderation, some go misty eyed in smoke. CBD with low to no THC has pretty much replaced bud for me, it's a different experience.
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#20 gamesguru

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:37 PM

CBD with low to no THC has pretty much replaced bud for me, it's a different experience.

 

and that's fine by me.  i'm mixing them about 50/50 now and though it makes you feel more tired it seems like youre less impaired and less addicted

 

and if for you dark chocolate is on a level with skunk, i suggest we have very different personalities.  caffeine may be worse for you than mexican weed, but top shelf kush is another story.  especially if you have addictive-anxio-schizo traits, smoking that stuff long-term is just not gonna bring out the best in you


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#21 sthira

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 05:59 PM

CBD with low to no THC has pretty much replaced bud for me, it's a different experience.


and that's fine by me. i'm mixing them about 50/50 now and though it makes you feel more tired it seems like youre less impaired and less addicted

Isn't it interesting how different substances affect people differently; for me CBD ingestion does the opposite of tired. On it, not too much, just 8-11 drops, I'm super-energized, clear headed and focused. I get shit done. People have noticed changes, and they comment. I'm healthier. I keep thinking this is awesome placebo, and maybe it is, I'd love to see more controlled clinical trials of specific, well-defined ingredients. If I take too much, I get a little manic.

and if for you dark chocolate is on a level with skunk, i suggest we have very different personalities. caffeine may be worse for you than mexican weed, but top shelf kush is another story. especially if you have addictive-anxio-schizo traits, smoking that stuff long-term is just not gonna bring out the best in you


I don't know how you're defining skunk, but in my experience skunk is sorta like you ain't quite sure what's up, indica or sativa, or both, and who knows which way it may inspire travels. What I meant by the dark chocolate analogy is that dark chocolate can be crafted for specific tastes and textures, a snobbery appeal, cost, styles and levels of woo-hoo refinement. And presumed organic angelic purity, or at least cadmium and lead reports. Similar for weed, at least where I stay.

And if you have "addictive-anxio-schizo traits," I agree, definitely sharper stories may arise for some long term.

#22 gamesguru

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:41 PM

On it, not too much, just 8-11 drops, I'm super-energized, clear headed and focused. I get shit done

If I take too much, I get a little manic.

 

I do feel energized, just in a narcotic sort of way.  And I do notice it's more stimulating in lower doses, not that I could exactly quantify my use, maybe 70-100mg daily?  I wonder if CBDA has similar effects, then you could skip the smoking and prepare it raw somehow.

 

As for the chocolate it just seemed like you were taking the idea of psychological addiction to its logical extreme, and I wanted to inject my ideas somewhere between.  I'm sure if I went for nicer chocolate it would be harder to say no, but when I was last at Trader Joe's the idea re-upping on those waxy bars from Belgium didn't quite appeal



#23 Vethermond

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Posted 31 March 2021 - 01:11 PM

Oh, it's nice that I found this post. So many useful links. I've been dependent for 2 years but eventually managed to escape the addiction.



#24 adamh

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Posted 31 March 2021 - 08:30 PM

Addiction? ha! I've been using for over 50 years and I can stop anytime I want to. Years ago I used to smoke about a few nights a week only laying off the nights before I worked. I don't use it first thing in the morning, that makes you useless the rest of the day because all you want to do is listen to music etc. I use it for insomnia.

 

Yes, it has or can have a downside. There is no doubt about that. Can anyone name me a drug that has no side effects or any downside? It is not physically addictive, any "withdrawal" symptoms even after long and heavy use are mostly the effect of missing what you were used to. There are plenty of people "addicted" to video games and other pastimes. They will spend all day playing if able and may have no interest in getting a job long as their folks or government will support them. Much like the stereotypical pothead, which there are indeed some around. If they are forced to go cold turkey from playing games all day, they will miss that too and feel some 'withdrawal'

 

What about the upside? There are many benefits; relief of pain, relief of nausea (quite important to cancer patients), improved sleep, helps with glaucoma, and other benefits I've forgotten and can't be arsed to look up. Fact is, its prescribed by doctors and is legal for medical use in most states (usa) and legal for any use in a few states.  

 

I use it mostly to help with sleep being a hard head insomniac. It is great for that and if it worked every day I'd use it every day in the evening. So what if I can't get much work done late at night when using, I never do anyway. But it seems I become tolerant to it with daily use so I only use it every 3 days. So much for my addiction. In addition to the benefits I mentioned, it makes me feel really good. The fact I've used it most of my life and can take it or leave it proves something. 

 

Any substance or activity can be addictive including sex, running, games etc. Running at least gives health benefits, no doubt more than pot so there is that. But people who developed arthritis sometimes kept their running habit until they could hardly walk so you have to be careful with that too. I use it because I like it, are you going to quit sex to prove you are not addicted to it?

 

So, to each his own, cbd is marijuana too you know. Its not addictive either but people like it. Let people use what they like and lets keep our nose out of their business. Far as opiates go, I don't use them but if people  want to use it, give them an opioid maintenance program. It works in the netherlands better than cold turkey which is the only result usa medicine endorses. Getting off topic but what someone wants to put in their body is their own affair, imo.



#25 Oakman

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 09:02 PM

Addiction? ha! I've been using for over 50 years and I can stop anytime I want to. 

 

That's classic...makes me laugh ... I agree with you...but isn't that some kind of joke line?  Perfect, just perfect... applies to any fav vice :)


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#26 DonCallis

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 11:58 AM

I agree with Adam on that one. I've been smoking weed for five years and could quit anytime I want. I have no reason to stop because it has positive effects. Weed helped me stabilize my mental state, and I ultimately got rid of insomnia. It's worth mentioning that not everyone gets the desired effect. That's true. My friend used to smoke for several months and didn't like it at all. At the same time, he could get Magic Mushrooms Canada which effects were quite impressive. I think the substance's value depends on many things, so we have to be patient.







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