• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Wellbutrin

wellbutrin brain fog depression

  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#31 CWF1986

  • Guest
  • 224 posts
  • 24
  • Location:Houston, Texas

Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:27 AM

My doctor suggested possibly Wellbutrin to augment my other medication. Currently;
Lexapro 5-10mg/day
Abilify 2mg/day
Vyvanse 60mg/day(morning)
Adderall IR 30mg(afternoon)


My concern with Bupropion is its effects on amphetamines. I wouldn’t want it to decrease the amphetamine reward leading to higher doses.

Taken from Reddit:

“Since both of these drugs have relatively similar effects, I'm curious as to what the interaction would be. I can think of two major ways they'd interact.

Since amphetamine is dependent on transport through DAT and VMAT2 for its effects, and bupropion is a DAT/NET reuptake inhibitor, the combination would lessen the maximal effects of amphetamine

Since bupropion is a substituted amphetamine, it's reasonable to believe that the metabolism of amphetamine would be slowed?”

Any experience with this?

 

I've had the combo before.  Subjectively, the wellbutrin gave me energy and increased my mood while adderall gave me focus which helped me harness my energy into motivation.  It wasn't just like adding too stims together nor did one overpower or negate the other.  Unfortunately, the combo really jacked up my blood pressure and all the blood pressure meds I've tried cause me depression even when I'm taking an AD so the combo was a no-go for me. 



#32 John250

  • Guest
  • 1,451 posts
  • 109
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:45 PM

I've had the combo before. Subjectively, the wellbutrin gave me energy and increased my mood while adderall gave me focus which helped me harness my energy into motivation. It wasn't just like adding too stims together nor did one overpower or negate the other. Unfortunately, the combo really jacked up my blood pressure and all the blood pressure meds I've tried cause me depression even when I'm taking an AD so the combo was a no-go for me.

Have you compared Modafinil as well? I’m trying to figure out what to add between bupropion and Modafinil to make Amphetamines more stimulating without increasing the dose.

I use Lisinopril sometimes with hctz for BP and haven’t noticed any mood changes. I didn’t even think BP meds acted on neurotransmitters but I never really looked into it. Maybe look into Nebivolol. It’s a 3rd gen beta blocker that has far less sides than most betas.

Edited by John250, 30 June 2018 - 04:47 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#33 Mind_Paralysis

  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 30 June 2018 - 05:34 PM

Have you compared Modafinil as well? I’m trying to figure out what to add between bupropion and Modafinil to make Amphetamines more stimulating without increasing the dose.

I use Lisinopril sometimes with hctz for BP and haven’t noticed any mood changes. I didn’t even think BP meds acted on neurotransmitters but I never really looked into it. Maybe look into Nebivolol. It’s a 3rd gen beta blocker that has far less sides than most betas.

 

Why do you need Amphetamines to be more stimulating?

 

You don't have either Narcolepsy or Idiopathic Hypersomnia...

 

The diagnosis you have been given is Borderline Personality Disorder - I know you have been addicted to Stimulants, you've said so yourself - is this you trying to find a way to handle trying to cut down on Amphetamine?

 

That's the wrong way to do it, man.

 

That's not cutting down, or trying to limit the need for artificial hypomania - because making AMP more stimulating is in essence to make it more addictive...

 

 

But fair enough, I'll give you this - for SOME, it would appear as if MEMANTINE has a positive effect on the TOLERANCE that comes from Amphetamine-usage - people report a return of euphoric effects if they supplement with Memantine.

 

Memantine also appears to have positive effects on ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, Autism, Depression, Anxiety and OCD - to what extent is variable and even dubious in some cases, but there have been reports from all of those disorders - they're also all, to some extent, connected to abnormalities in the NMDA-networks - which Memantine interacts with.

 

Since abnormalities in the NMDA-network have been reported in BPD as well, it could possibly have some beneficial effects there as well. (if BPD is in reality a form of Neurodevelopmental Disorder, as have recently been theorized, yes theorized - there's actually some EVIDENCE to support it - then this makes sense - since abnormalities in NMDA-networks is a common theme in all other neurodevelopmental disorders)

 

 

So, try Memantine.

 

 

(I suggest you read up on the side-effects first though... the brain-fog can be very problematic - very sedating. Like a Benzo but without the fun.)

 

Oh, and btw - plan to make a CUT in your AMP-usage to coincide with the beginning of your Memantine-trial - for some, the return of mania is so strong, that a smaller dosage in essence becomes a bigger dosage - you don't want to waste your first use of Memantine on the SAME dosage you're using now! You have more to gain, or should I say, REgain? If you actually lower the dosage as well.


Edited by Mind_Paralysis, 30 June 2018 - 05:37 PM.


#34 John250

  • Guest
  • 1,451 posts
  • 109
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 30 June 2018 - 05:41 PM

Why do you need Amphetamines to be more stimulating?

You don't have either Narcolepsy or Idiopathic Hypersomnia...

The diagnosis you have been given is Borderline Personality Disorder - I know you have been addicted to Stimulants, you've said so yourself - is this you trying to find a way to handle trying to cut down on Amphetamine?

That's the wrong way to do it, man.

That's not cutting down, or trying to limit the need for artificial hypomania - because making AMP more stimulating is in essence to make it more addictive...


But fair enough, I'll give you this - for SOME, it would appear as if MEMANTINE has a positive effect on the TOLERANCE that comes from Amphetamine-usage - people report a return of euphoric effects if they supplement with Memantine.

Memantine also appears to have positive effects on ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, Autism, Depression, Anxiety and OCD - to what extent is variable and even dubious in some cases, but there have been reports from all of those disorders - they're also all, to some extent, connected to abnormalities in the NMDA-networks - which Memantine interacts with.

Since abnormalities in the NMDA-network have been reported in BPD as well, it could possibly have some beneficial effects there as well. (if BPD is in reality a form of Neurodevelopmental Disorder, as have recently been theorized, yes theorized - there's actually some EVIDENCE to support it - then this makes sense - since abnormalities in NMDA-networks is a common theme in all other neurodevelopmental disorders)


So, try Memantine.


(I suggest you read up on the side-effects first though... the brain-fog can be very problematic - very sedating. Like a Benzo but without the fun.)

Tried Memantine a few weeks ago. 5mg/day
3 days into it I feel like it almost made my tolerance worse. I needed about 25% more amps than normal. That feeling you get right when the amphetamine kicks in is what I’m always chasing. I’m trying to always have that feeling and I can’t get anything done unless I feel it. I’ve tried so many things to counter act it. Only thing that helped me reduce tolerance was a very low dose opiate. Like 3mg Oxy.

Dr. had me add 2mg Abilify to my Lexapro. Worried it’s going to make me tired but at the same time as a partial D2 agonist maybe it will improve my mesolimbic pathway.

Edited by John250, 30 June 2018 - 05:45 PM.


#35 Mind_Paralysis

  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 01 July 2018 - 09:33 AM

Tried Memantine a few weeks ago. 5mg/day
3 days into it I feel like it almost made my tolerance worse. I needed about 25% more amps than normal. That feeling you get right when the amphetamine kicks in is what I’m always chasing. I’m trying to always have that feeling and I can’t get anything done unless I feel it. I’ve tried so many things to counter act it. Only thing that helped me reduce tolerance was a very low dose opiate. Like 3mg Oxy.

Dr. had me add 2mg Abilify to my Lexapro. Worried it’s going to make me tired but at the same time as a partial D2 agonist maybe it will improve my mesolimbic pathway.

 

Hmm.

 

It sounds like you have very complex, very deep-rooted problems with addiction... I must admit, this is far, far from my speciality.

 

But, still, let's have a deeper look...

 

 

I found this particular brain-structure study, on people whom are addicted to Stimulants:

 

Abnormal Brain Structure Implicated in Stimulant Drug Addiction

 

http://m.ecnp-congre...ence (2012).pdf

 

"...gray matter changes in the dorsal striatum, together with abnormal inferior prefrontal cortical connectivity, underlie an increased risk for developing stimulant drug dependence."

 

Since your addiction is actually very specific - it's STIMULANTS - this actually narrows some of the research down. This gives a start - perhaps you can get an fMRI of you and your next of Kin's brains, to figure out if you at least have these specific changes to your brain?

 

If you and a sibling enter the EM-chamber and this is what can be seen in your brains, then you might have a decent clue...

 

You could also try to contact the authors of the study, or delve into their further research: do they have even fresher, BETTER data on what makes a stimulant-addict?

 

 

You'll never reach the kind of effect you want from stimulants - that's impossible, human physiology will fight you all the way.

 

But, perhaps you can look deeper into WHY your brain craves this feeling, and reprogram the whole loop? Alter your brain in a different circuit, that will make the craving a moot point.

 

 

Until you have the data, all I can do is suggest you continue with what you're doing with your Dr, and perhaps to add this:

 

 

Guanfacine (enhances prefrontal activity - might help with both emotion-control and impulsivity)

 

Buprenorphine/naltrexone (has shown efficacy in treating cocaine-addiction - kappa-modulating compounds in general seems to have efficacy in treating addiction - striking at the very core of addictive behaviour.)

 

https://en.wikipedia...hine/naltrexone

 

 

Memantine - this time, you go on a much, MUCH higher dosage! 20 mg or so. And don't try to increase your AMP-dosage while you do it - you have to tough it out! The brain-fog usually goes away in about 7-8 days - so JUST a few days longer than what you used it the last time...



#36 John250

  • Guest
  • 1,451 posts
  • 109
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 01 July 2018 - 07:16 PM

Hmm.

It sounds like you have very complex, very deep-rooted problems with addiction... I must admit, this is far, far from my speciality.

But, still, let's have a deeper look...


I found this particular brain-structure study, on people whom are addicted to Stimulants:

Abnormal Brain Structure Implicated in Stimulant Drug Addiction

http://m.ecnp-congre...ence (2012).pdf


Since your addiction is actually very specific - it's STIMULANTS - this actually narrows some of the research down. This gives a start - perhaps you can get an fMRI of you and your next of Kin's brains, to figure out if you at least have these specific changes to your brain?

If you and a sibling enter the EM-chamber and this is what can be seen in your brains, then you might have a decent clue...

You could also try to contact the authors of the study, or delve into their further research: do they have even fresher, BETTER data on what makes a stimulant-addict?


You'll never reach the kind of effect you want from stimulants - that's impossible, human physiology will fight you all the way.

But, perhaps you can look deeper into WHY your brain craves this feeling, and reprogram the whole loop? Alter your brain in a different circuit, that will make the craving a moot point.


Until you have the data, all I can do is suggest you continue with what you're doing with your Dr, and perhaps to add this:


Guanfacine (enhances prefrontal activity - might help with both emotion-control and impulsivity)

Buprenorphine/naltrexone (has shown efficacy in treating cocaine-addiction - kappa-modulating compounds in general seems to have efficacy in treating addiction - striking at the very core of addictive behaviour.)

https://en.wikipedia...hine/naltrexone


Memantine - this time, you go on a much, MUCH higher dosage! 20 mg or so. And don't try to increase your AMP-dosage while you do it - you have to tough it out! The brain-fog usually goes away in about 7-8 days - so JUST a few days longer than what you used it the last time...

It’s not just stimulants. When I was a kid I was the same way. I’d pick one thing and obsess over it. I was into drag racing in high school and cars is all I cared about. No drugs involved.Then I got into bodybuilding and it became an obsession. Many drugs involved. Then 3-4 weeks ago I had a cigarette, didn’t even care for it that much but have probably smoked 5 packs within the past few weeks. Can’t stop researching my disorder and other things when I’m supposed to be working.

In August my wife and kids are flying back home for 8 days. I own my own business so I can close it for a week or have someone work but I’m thinking of just detoxing/withdrawling during that time to clean myself up.

Edited by John250, 01 July 2018 - 07:18 PM.


#37 funkdakarma

  • Guest
  • 40 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Canada
  • NO

Posted 20 September 2018 - 02:57 PM

Is Wellbutrin a bad idea for those who don't react well to stimulants? Does it cause over-anxiety, like Yohimbine? Or does it have a calming effect on the libido?

 

My doctor has just prescribed that to me, as I want something to take away the anxiety but keep the libido intact/boost it. I'm on a bunch of supplements to try and boost the libido, only a few work effectively for a period of time. 



#38 Mind_Paralysis

  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 20 September 2018 - 03:50 PM

Is Wellbutrin a bad idea for those who don't react well to stimulants? Does it cause over-anxiety, like Yohimbine? Or does it have a calming effect on the libido?

 

My doctor has just prescribed that to me, as I want something to take away the anxiety but keep the libido intact/boost it. I'm on a bunch of supplements to try and boost the libido, only a few work effectively for a period of time. 

 

I wouldn't recommend it, to be honest.

Although it may not cause as much anxiety as a real stimulant, it's not bound to help much either. (the evidence for its effectiveness in the treatment of anxiety is quite weak.)

 

Really, if you want something that helps with anxiety yet doesn't mess with libido, then you need to go for an MAOI: Moclobemide is apparently the one you want.

 

Antidepressant-associated sexual dysfunction: impact, effects, and treatment

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3108697/

 

Moclobemide, a reversible MAOI, (3.9%) resulted in the lowest incidence of sexual dysfunction.

 

 

Moclobemide for anxiety disorders: a focus on moclobemide for panic disorder.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/9466172

 

Moclobemide is effective and well tolerated in the long-term pharmacotherapy of social anxiety disorder with or without comorbid anxiety disorder.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/12131599

 

 

It's not the most effective treatment of anxiety disorders, but it does have an effect it would appear. It's also a lot safer than older MAOI's, so give it a shot.

 

 

Otherwise, if you want to go for an unconventional approach, then look into Bromantane I guess - it's a form of stimulant, but unlike regular stimulants, it does NOT cause anxiety, rather, it actually seems to be a decent anxiolytic instead. Probably owing to the unique mode of action of Bromantane. (it epigenetically increases the body's production of dopamine, most likely)



#39 funkdakarma

  • Guest
  • 40 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Canada
  • NO

Posted 20 September 2018 - 04:05 PM

Thanks for the reply. Frankly, I'm really looking for something that would give me a nice mental boost for my libido. Approach it calmly. I guess the doctor prescribed it for a two-prong reason; that I wanted something to lower my anxiety, and also something that might increase libido. 

 

Does Moclobemide increase libido?



#40 John250

  • Guest
  • 1,451 posts
  • 109
  • Location:Temecula
  • NO

Posted 20 September 2018 - 04:39 PM

Thanks for the reply. Frankly, I'm really looking for something that would give me a nice mental boost for my libido. Approach it calmly. I guess the doctor prescribed it for a two-prong reason; that I wanted something to lower my anxiety, and also something that might increase libido.

Does Moclobemide increase libido?

Maybe a Dopamine agonist but for short term only. A long time ago I used .5mg cabergoline 2x/wk And got a huge libido boost the first few months and it almost doubled my ejaculatory volume but then subsided. I have read cabergoline is considered a “dirty” drug due to its profile so maybe something like Pramipexole or Ropinirole would be better. Ropinirole seems to be the cleanest dopamine agonist of them all.

Edited by John250, 20 September 2018 - 04:40 PM.


#41 Mind_Paralysis

  • Guest
  • 1,715 posts
  • 155
  • Location:Scandinavia
  • NO

Posted 20 September 2018 - 04:57 PM

Thanks for the reply. Frankly, I'm really looking for something that would give me a nice mental boost for my libido. Approach it calmly. I guess the doctor prescribed it for a two-prong reason; that I wanted something to lower my anxiety, and also something that might increase libido. 

 

Does Moclobemide increase libido?

 

As far as I can tell, generally, no.

 

Well, except if your low libido comes from actual atypical depression, aka anhedonia, then YES, it will help. But otherwise, no.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#42 funkdakarma

  • Guest
  • 40 posts
  • 3
  • Location:Canada
  • NO

Posted 20 September 2018 - 05:07 PM

Thanks for the replies.

 

After consideration, I'm not going to fill that Wellbutrin prescription. I didn't mention that I did try it before, years ago, to counter the Citalopram effects of low libido, and it did nothing for me.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: wellbutrin, brain fog, depression

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users