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why do people think vitamin C prevents or assists a cold?

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#1 ironfistx

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 02:36 AM


This seems to be a regular thought.


Edited by ironfistx, 10 January 2018 - 02:37 AM.

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#2 pamojja

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:21 AM

why do people think vitamin C prevents or assists a cold?

 

Probably, because such people like Robert F. Carthcart or the double unique noble-prize winner Linus Pauling popularized it.

 

Then people try it out and find it does work, in sufficient high enough doses taken regularly from the earliest onset.

 

 


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#3 recon

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:44 AM

May not actually prevents a cold but certainly proven to mitigate it.
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#4 brosci

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:25 AM

http://onlinelibrary...F6059B59.f04t02

 

"In five trials with 598 participants exposed to short periods of extreme physical stress (including marathon runners and skiers) vitamin C halved the common cold risk."

 

"Thirty-one comparisons examined the effect of regular vitamin C on common cold duration (9745 episodes). In adults the duration of colds was reduced by 8% (3% to 12%) and in children by 14% (7% to 21%)."

 

"One large trial with adults reported benefit from an 8 g therapeutic dose at the onset of symptoms, and two therapeutic trials using five-day supplementation reported benefit."

 

"It may be worthwhile for common cold patients to test on an individual basis whether therapeutic vitamin C is beneficial for them. Further therapeutic RCTs are warranted."

 

Maybe the effect is more pronounced in athletic subjects rather than average, inactive subjects?  Or, maybe some individuals respond better or others worse, which comes out as a wash in larger studies (vitamin E supplementation comes to mind, where inflammatory cytokines are elevated by an interaction with some genetic polymorphism) ?


Edited by brosci, 11 January 2018 - 04:31 AM.

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#5 Rocket

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:57 AM

I myself started the Pauling regimen a while ago. I just had the mildest cold since the removal of the original Zicam nasal swabs from the market several years ago. Zicam would limit my colds to maybe 3 or 4 days with very mild symptoms. The high dose of vitamin c kept the cold to about a week but was very subdued... Not as good as Zicam was but still very good. Seems to work in my experience.

Edited by Rocket, 12 January 2018 - 01:58 AM.

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#6 sensei

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:43 AM

 

why do people think vitamin C prevents or assists a cold?

 

Probably, because such people like Robert F. Carthcart or the double unique noble-prize winner Linus Pauling popularized it.

 

Then people try it out and find it does work, in sufficient high enough doses taken regularly from the earliest onset.

 

 

Exactly,

 

However, most people do not understand what "sufficiently high doses" are.

 

They are on the order of 1-2 grams hourly until bowel tolerance if using powdered c.

 

1 gram per hour of liposomal C (12 grams daily) will stop a cold in it's tracks.


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#7 pamojja

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:55 PM

However, most people do not understand what "sufficiently high doses" are.

 

That's why I linked to Cathcart's titrate paper. Where it is stated that in his clinical experience (by far the most extensive in this respect) the bowel-tolerance of vitamin C with a mild cold would go up to about 30-60 g per day, and with severe cold from 60-100+ g ascorbic acid a day.

 

https://vitamincfoun...com/titrate.htm

 

They are on the order of 1-2 grams hourly until bowel tolerance if using powdered c.

 

For me 1-2 grams hourly wouldn't do anything. Since my bowel-tolerance with many chronic diseases is already at 50 g per day normally. In my case would have to take 5g every half hour or more to see an effect against a cold. But everyone is different..


Edited by pamojja, 12 January 2018 - 02:00 PM.

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#8 Heisok

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:37 AM

Last June I caught some sort of virus that was around which was moving into the lungs of some whom my wife had heard about. One who was hospitalized. I was more sick than I had been in at least 17 years, per my wife. I tried high dose Vitamin C, but did not take enough to approach bowel tolerance, (even though I had read the Cathcart information) My results were poor. I took notes each day. The first 24 hours, I took 33 grams of Vitamin C as Mg Ascorbate, (I also was taking over 2 elemental grams per day of Magnesium, so I did not have a problem with the Mg causing issues. Day 2 forward, I took around 10 gms per day of C. Got sicker, with a fever that would not go down, so on about day 4, I RELUCTANTLY started 10 days of Doxycycline as a cough was starting. It helped quickly, so I had logically developed a bacterial infection. I was very weak, tired and run down looking for over another 6 weeks.

 

This years cold and flu season, I am paranoid about getting sick again, so I have been doing a lot for possible immunity benefits. Part of this is making my own liposomol Vitamin C. I am taking 6 to 7 grams of Vitamin C from this, and 2 grams from other sources. (I have no idea what amount of liposomes I am creating, but I do feel differently after taking it compared to other forms of vitamin C, but I guess that could just be the lecithin.) I am using the method mentioned by aconita. Worst case, I am getting the ascorbic acid.

 

If my wife or I start to get sick, I will increase my liposomol preparation to the 12 gms mentioned, but also add large doses of the ascorbic acid. I will force myself to work close to bowel tolerance for several days, even if it takes 50 grams or more of C. I have over 1 pound of ascorbic acid, so I should be prepared with enough. (This will not prove anything about the C hypothesis, because I will also increase the Black Elderberry syrup which I am taking from 2 teaspoons per day to far higher.)

 

aconita: "Industrially liposomes are made by spraying at very high pressure against a steel slab, in facts creating liposomes is quite simple.

Since spraying at high pressure small amounts isn't very practical for the homemaker lets go the other way around, hit hard the wannabe liposomes with steel, in other words pour granular soy lecithin, water and your compound of choice in a blender and run for about 1-2 minutes, done."


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#9 sensei

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:13 PM

 

 

aconita: "Industrially liposomes are made by spraying at very high pressure against a steel slab, in facts creating liposomes is quite simple.

Since spraying at high pressure small amounts isn't very practical for the homemaker lets go the other way around, hit hard the wannabe liposomes with steel, in other words pour granular soy lecithin, water and your compound of choice in a blender and run for about 1-2 minutes, done."

 

Blender does not quite do it.


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#10 Heisok

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 05:38 PM

Thanks sensei,

 

is there a home method that you feel works, or is pre-made the way to go? Some trust has to be given also that the premade forms liposomal C?

 

I can find a couple brands which would end up being around $70 dollars per month at 6 gms per day.

For around $25 per month, I could take 24 grams of ascorbic acid.



#11 Astroid

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 07:13 AM

I highly endorse liposomal C, as I understand it is 30-40 times more effective at entering the cells. 

 

One uses 2,500 of vitamin C every 2 hours when one is ill, I understand.

 

Also I found using Liposomal Glutathione works too.

 

My best solution to increasing the Immunity 300% is taken Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) 4.5mg/night. 

It immediately stopped severe hives I had for 8 years.. and I have had zero colds or sinus infection in the 6 years of taking it.  

 

 

 

 


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#12 David Savage

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:08 AM

Vitamin D to help prevent colds and flu...

 

Link

 

Kind of makes sense if you think of cold season, the one you are indoors and don't see as much sun...


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#13 Nate-2004

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:51 PM

The effect it has is negligible and honestly it's not good to take antioxidants so regularly.

 

If you really want to prevent colds and flus, the best and most effective method is to get regular, quality sleep, that includes following good sleep hygiene practices such as regular exercise.

 

You'd be surprised just how effective this is. I've not been sick in 3 years.

 

If you want some good tips on sleep quality I am currently developing an outline that is a work in progress, it is a subsection of a larger outline I am developing on conquering depression. I am still trying to fill in all the citations so give me time.


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#14 SearchHorizon

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:00 AM

The effect it has is negligible and honestly it's not good to take antioxidants so regularly.

 

 

I'm mostly with Nate on this. For example, there is a study that indicates athletes who exceeded 1g daily intake showed decreased performance over time.

 

It appears as if the body NEEDS pro-oxidant activity for adaptation, and, at high doses, vitamin C interferes with it. This is consistent with the idea that high dose vitamin C could be beneficial over short time intervals.


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#15 Astroid

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:20 AM

BS


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#16 Believer

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:59 AM

I'm mostly with Nate on this. For example, there is a study that indicates athletes who exceeded 1g daily intake showed decreased performance over time.

A quick follow-up study showed that vitamin C did not impair athletic performance at all.


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#17 brosci

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:58 AM

 

The effect it has is negligible and honestly it's not good to take antioxidants so regularly.

 

 

I'm mostly with Nate on this. For example, there is a study that indicates athletes who exceeded 1g daily intake showed decreased performance over time.

 

It appears as if the body NEEDS pro-oxidant activity for adaptation, and, at high doses, vitamin C interferes with it. This is consistent with the idea that high dose vitamin C could be beneficial over short time intervals.

 

 

How long does excess vitamin-C stay in circulation, actively preventing oxidation, as compared with say 200mg from eating a bell pepper and a kiwi?  It seems like dietary antioxidants (eg black coffee / turmeric tea / green tea / cacao) or supplements like CoQ10 would be more likely to mess up ROS signaling... although, it seems like coffee is ergogenic, cacao is ergogenic... and maybe CoQ10 can be ergogenic?  I know at high doses, vitamin C is a pro-oxidant, which can be beneficial if you're trying to cause some hormetic stress.

 

Are these athletes taking the vitamin C right before training ?

 

http://www.ergo-log....e-exercise.html

 

http://www.ergo-log....ceathletes.html

 

http://www.ergo-log....ne-levels.html\

 

http://www.ergo-log....-vitamin-c.html

 

http://www.ergo-log....moremuscle.html

 

http://www.ergo-log....htvitaminc.html

 

http://www.ergo-log....d-pressure.html

 

http://suppversity.b...se-induced.html

 

http://suppversity.b...ty-maximal.html

 

etc.

 

Vitamin C has been mentioned in peer reviewed scientific journal articles to maintain endurance athletes' testosterone levels, decrease anxiety, reduce muscular damage to increase muscle protein synthesis, increase fat burning, increase collagen and bone growth, boost aerobic performance, lower blood pressure, and even make it easier to do more exercise.  High-doses don't seem to be not harmful to athletic performance in the article listed above... in another article, the higher dosed group seemed to show reduced all cause mortality and reduced cardiovascular mortality.

 

That said... this article is a little concerning:

 

https://academic.oup...77/6/548/160639

 

The plasma vitamin C concentration is suggested to reach a plateau by intake of ≈200 mg of vitamin C/day. However, vitamin C concentrations in the lens are from 50- to 60-fold higher than in plasma, and a linear relation between dietary intake and lens concentrations has been reported (44). This suggests that oversupplementation may lead to an even higher vitamin C accumulation in the lens and result in a prooxidative state.

 

I might back my Swanson Sodium Ascorbate dose back from a half a tiny scoop (885mg) to an 8th of a scoop (just a tiny pinch?)  I don't get why they do 1.7g as a normal serving size.  At 480 (60 x8) servings for $5.99 (and cheaper prices available in larger orders), it's pretty dirt cheap if there is any benefit to be had... at around a penny or less a day, it's basically free.

 

https://examine.com/...ntific-research


Edited by brosci, 25 January 2018 - 09:24 AM.

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