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What’s everyone’s take on tianeptine

tianeptine

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#1 Charles Thompson

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:46 PM


I got an email on this saying it was available and reading up it seems to have profound effects on mood, anxiety and even opioid like effects but without the same sides?

#2 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:26 PM

Excellent drug, safe with few side-effects and good efficacy in improving mood and combatting depression as well as negative thoughts.

 

The opioid-like effects are only seen at above therapeutic dosages though, and once you reach those, you also get a variation of the opioid-style withdrawal - except... ENHANCED! There's something about Tianeptine's other effects, the ones on DA, NE 5ht and Glutamate which adds to the withdrawal - causing some very serious withdrawal-effects.

 

On dosages from 20-60 mg there doesn't appear to be ANY discontinuation syndrome though - in fact, prior to the drug seeing intravenous use in Russia in the early 2000's, no discontinuation effects were even known and acknowledged by medical science! As such, when the drug is used the way it's supposed to, 20-50 mg, orally, Tianeptine is safer and more gentle than nearly any other antidepressant ever created.

 

It truly is in a class of its own.



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#3 Charles Thompson

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:36 PM

That certainly sounds good. However, are you saying you’d only suggest it as an anti-depressant as opposed to say a nootropic?

Reason I ask, I’ll occasionally take one tramadol tab, not for any opioid like benefits but i find it’s great for focus and motivation presumably cos it’s a stimulant and reading about tianeptine it sounds intriguing that it could be similar but with less sides.

#4 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM

That certainly sounds good. However, are you saying you’d only suggest it as an anti-depressant as opposed to say a nootropic?

Reason I ask, I’ll occasionally take one tramadol tab, not for any opioid like benefits but i find it’s great for focus and motivation presumably cos it’s a stimulant and reading about tianeptine it sounds intriguing that it could be similar but with less sides.

 

Tramadol is an SNRI as well - I have tried such compounds (Duloxetine, Atomoxetine), and I find them generally more stimulating and nootropic than Tianeptine. (I haven't tried tramadol or other opiates though)

 

Of course, this is coming from someone whom has SCT, among other cognitive deficits and quirks - your brain is by no chance bound to have the same effects when exposed to these drugs.

 

 

Btw... stop using Tramadol - for obvious reasons. Go get some Milnacipran, to get a balanced SNRI - also shown to have greater painkilling effects than Duloxetine, in case you get tempted to use Tramadol when you're in pain.


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 11 January 2018 - 11:51 AM.


#5 Cassandra

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

Does anybody know if Tianeptine interacts with Provigil?



#6 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:31 PM

Seeing my previous glowing appraisal of Tianeptine I feel it wouldn't be right to not mention some of the side-effects of this drug - one which I've seen mentioned, is how Tianeptine actually seems to be capable of causing very problematic fatigue, similar to what the SSRI's (and multiple other antidepressant classes) do.

 

There's of course also the insomnia, which also seems to be similar to SSRI's - I personally didn't experience too bad an effect of either drug on insomnia, I instead find the NRI's more insomnia-inducing, but there's a significant amount of people whom have reported both of these seemingly conflicting side-effects - it should be noted though, that other drugs can cause both effects at the same time.

 

Atomoxetine for instance (meant as an antidepressant, but failed trials - yet there are a few people online whom have testified that much like Reboxetine, it's the only thing that's worked for their depression) causes this strange sort of restless, yet terribly sedated state in me, wherein I can barely keep my eyes open during the day, but cannot sleep no matter what, in the evening.

 

 

I recommend that you read this small review on the drug:

 

https://www.tianepti...tianeptine.html

 

As well as Stablon's packaging insert, where you can have a look at the most common side-effects:

 

https://www.servier....blon 12.5mg.pdf

 

http://mri.cts-mrp.e...001_FinalPL.pdf



#7 noobray

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:51 PM

what about amineptine?

looks more interesting than tianeptine, but looks to be also more hepatotoxic and it's discontinued.



#8 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:45 AM

Does anybody know if Tianeptine interacts with Provigil?

 

Unknown.

 

On paper, there is no greater interaction, no messing with enzymes or anything like that - nor do they have the same mechanism of action - there are however reports about how the combination can be TOO STIMULATING for neurotypical users. (i.e, if you don't have narcolepsy, adhd or sct)

 

Here's some of the few posts I found on the combo - there are no actual medical trials of the two drugs in combination, from what I could find on google scholar:

 

https://www.reddit.c...tine_modafinil/

 

https://www.reddit.c...tine_modafinil/



#9 Charles Thompson

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:26 AM

Stinkorninjor - Thanks for posting informatively here. Can I ask what specifically you feel is an issue with occasional use of tramadol as a nootropic?

The other drugs you mentioned which you said were more stimulating than tianeptine, those are proper anti depressants so I’d be concerned about taking them purely for improving cognitive function whereas tramadol, with it being a painkiller I guess I’m not as much.

Back to tianeptine, you remarked it improves mood while having less of a stimulating effect than tramadol and not having an opiate like effect when used at normal doses. With that being the case what exactly is it that’s improving mood if it’s less effective than tramadol from an SNRI angle?

(Sorry if I’m being obtuse here, I’m just really curious at seeing if tianeptine could be a kind of dream drug that provides the best of both worlds without the sides).

#10 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:50 AM

Stinkorninjor - Thanks for posting informatively here. Can I ask what specifically you feel is an issue with occasional use of tramadol as a nootropic?

The other drugs you mentioned which you said were more stimulating than tianeptine, those are proper anti depressants so I’d be concerned about taking them purely for improving cognitive function whereas tramadol, with it being a painkiller I guess I’m not as much.

Back to tianeptine, you remarked it improves mood while having less of a stimulating effect than tramadol and not having an opiate like effect when used at normal doses. With that being the case what exactly is it that’s improving mood if it’s less effective than tramadol from an SNRI angle?

(Sorry if I’m being obtuse here, I’m just really curious at seeing if tianeptine could be a kind of dream drug that provides the best of both worlds without the sides).

 

Tianeptine doesn't have any SNRI-effects - no affinity for the transporters - it achieves its stimulation through some other means - it does cause release of DA and NE in a particular area of the brain, which I can't remember off-hand, but it's not entirely clear how it does this - possibly it has to do with its opioid effects.

Tianeptine's primary mode of effect is as a glutamate-modulator - it balances the electrical activity between the NMDA and AMPA -receptors - in essence, it's a secondary agonist and antagonist of both of those receptor-types - somewhat similar to Lamotrigine, if you're familiar with that drug. (in fact, this is supported by the recent finding that Tianeptine is the only antidepressant with weak anticonvulsive properties - every other AD causes convulsions, but not Tia'.)

 

Now, it should be noted, that there is some debate regarding whether or not this is a secondary effect from its weak opioid-effects - which appear to be different in some way, some kind of unusual sub-receptors, some hypothesize, as other opioids do not modulate glutamate at such low affinity and low dosage - or whether it's an effect independent from the opioid effects. For the moment, as far as I know, the general opinion is that it's an effect independent from the opioid one, since these effects start happening so soon, even when the classic opioid effects are almost non-existent.

 

Tianeptine is also an antidepressant, it does have multiple side-effects, it should be noted - they just appear to be less severe than with most other classes of AD.



#11 Charles Thompson

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:14 PM

Thanks for sharing. Did you see my question on what the issue is with occasional tramadol use?

Based on this answer above, if tianeptine boosts dopamine and noradrenaline, then shouldn’t it be more stimulating than tramadol anyway?

#12 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:03 PM

Thanks for sharing. Did you see my question on what the issue is with occasional tramadol use?

Based on this answer above, if tianeptine boosts dopamine and noradrenaline, then shouldn’t it be more stimulating than tramadol anyway?

 

Well, Tramadol is illegal without a prescription - in my jurisdiction, such use carries a heavy fine, or more often, jail-time.

 

Then there is of course the regular side-effects of opioids, constipation, heavy nausea, and of course how immensely easy it is to get addicted (obviously the same goes for most opioids) - some are more susceptible to these effects than others, which make it a difficult drug to suggest as a nootropic - there are other drugs with better side-effects profiles - that's why they are considered nootropics, yes?

 

 

Regarding which is more stimulating, well, I must admit that you got me there!

Upon further consideration, I don't actually know for sure which one is more stimulating - I don't know how Tramadol stacks up when compared with Tianeptine in this regard - we'd need to ask someone like Steven Stahl (famous medical scientist and pharmacological expert) or ask multiple people whom have used both what their conclusions are on that.

 

Having a closer look at how common side effects are for both compounds, there doesn't appear as if insomnia is a common side-effect for Tramadol, while it certainly is so for Tianeptine. Usually, insomnia is a decent barometer regarding how stimulating something is - then again, most people would not say SSRI's are stimulating - most people seem to complain about generally feeling sedated while on them - yet one of the most common side-effects of multiple SSRI's are indeed, insomnia.



#13 hazy

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:23 AM

this comes from long term user of both, tramadol and tianeptine. this is what i have to say!

 

tramadol works perfectly for depression it could be its opiate activity but im certain its mostly the serotonin boost it does. in contrast, tianeptine is a very serious opiate antidepressant which WILL cause withdrawal issues in high doses long term use much worse than tramadol will do in high doses long term. both are very reliable stable antidepressants, but im surprised tramadol is so controlled while tianeptine isnt because ive done heroin and tramadol doesnt even compare to heroin in the highest dose, while in fair average to high doses tianeptine can feel like heroin for short period of about 20 minutes.

 

anyway, i think tramadol is high underrated, tianeptine is very good but its already highly popular so i wouldnt advertise it any further. my advice if you choose tianpetine, be careful of dose and how regularly you take it because it only gives you a high for like 20-30 mins compared to the stability in mood by tramadol which can last for 12 hours.



#14 Charles Thompson

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:01 PM

Stinkorninjor - Tramadol doesn’t feel like an opiate to me though. Nothing like codeine (no warm and fuzzy feeling for example). It does feel good but I couldn’t really compare it to something else but like Hazy says, I’d probably put it down to serotonin.

As for sides and legal status, it’s no big deal for me to have some here and sides wise I can’t say I’ve noticed those things dosing twice a week only. Having said that, insomnia is one thing I’ve experienced on it. I have taken it in the evening before and assumed it would help sleep cos it’s an opiate but on the contrary it had me wide awake at 4am still - based on that I’d assume the stimulant effects outweigh any opiate effects.

Hazy - Wow seriously, like heroin? No way. Lol, you’re tempting me there as I’ve always wondered what something like that would feel like!

What about this version here:

https://www.evopharm...-tianeptine.cfm

What dose do you consider to be needed to get that effect?

(I would only try it once, I’m not interested in becoming a junkie!).

#15 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 01:48 PM

Stinkorninjor - Tramadol doesn’t feel like an opiate to me though. Nothing like codeine (no warm and fuzzy feeling for example). It does feel good but I couldn’t really compare it to something else but like Hazy says, I’d probably put it down to serotonin.

As for sides and legal status, it’s no big deal for me to have some here and sides wise I can’t say I’ve noticed those things dosing twice a week only. Having said that, insomnia is one thing I’ve experienced on it. I have taken it in the evening before and assumed it would help sleep cos it’s an opiate but on the contrary it had me wide awake at 4am still - based on that I’d assume the stimulant effects outweigh any opiate effects.

Hazy - Wow seriously, like heroin? No way. Lol, you’re tempting me there as I’ve always wondered what something like that would feel like!

What about this version here:

https://www.evopharm...-tianeptine.cfm

What dose do you consider to be needed to get that effect?

(I would only try it once, I’m not interested in becoming a junkie!).

 

I've never used Heroin, or really any opiate (well, I was heavily doped on Morphine among other things, after a car-crash, but that was 15 years ago, and generally hazy and confused - I felt highly relaxed and sort of non-plussed about everything, not a care in the world, which is NOT what I feel from tianeptine) but such a tremendous effect from Tianeptine is unusual - me, personally, I only experience the euphoric effects like 1-2 days, in the beginning of Tianeptine-treatment - I've used about the standard dosing - 30-40 mg - which means 15-20 mg two times per day.

 

Not sure what to compare it too - it's a bit like the euphoria I can get from the first day of low-dose stimulant-use - you don't feel so relaxed, more energized and raring to go. Although Tianeptine is not as energizing, it's just a little bit similar.

 

And the euphoria is nothing special - it doesn't make you smile all day, you just feel all of a sudden less bothered by things, your mood goes up a little bit.

 

After these inital effects, I'd say the feeling is somewhat similar to SSRI's, which is curious, since in theory, one of the weaker effects of Tianeptine, is indeed SSRE - the complete opposite of SSRI's. However, both drugs lower activity out of the amygdala, hence blunting emotional tone - that's probably why it feels a bit similar. (you don't feel as inhibited as on SSRI's though, you're a bit more 'in it' so to speak)

 

 

In contrast, I actually feel the first two days on NSI-189 are MORE euphoric than Tianeptine - and there are others whom would agree. That initial euphoria almost always turns into dysphoria by day 3 though, or day 4 -followed by a feeling similar to SSRI, but again, less inhibited, and then it turns into fatigue and confusion once I pass maybe day 14. (on NSI-189 - tianeptine isn't like that)

 

 

Tianeptine and the amygdala:

https://www.nature.c...icles/mp2014169
 

(there are many more studies)



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#16 hazy

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 03:33 AM

Stinkorninjor - Tramadol doesn’t feel like an opiate to me though. Nothing like codeine (no warm and fuzzy feeling for example). It does feel good but I couldn’t really compare it to something else but like Hazy says, I’d probably put it down to serotonin.

As for sides and legal status, it’s no big deal for me to have some here and sides wise I can’t say I’ve noticed those things dosing twice a week only. Having said that, insomnia is one thing I’ve experienced on it. I have taken it in the evening before and assumed it would help sleep cos it’s an opiate but on the contrary it had me wide awake at 4am still - based on that I’d assume the stimulant effects outweigh any opiate effects.

Hazy - Wow seriously, like heroin? No way. Lol, you’re tempting me there as I’ve always wondered what something like that would feel like!

What about this version here:

https://www.evopharm...-tianeptine.cfm

What dose do you consider to be needed to get that effect?

(I would only try it once, I’m not interested in becoming a junkie!).

 

if youve done codeine, than you have the general idea of what opiates are like. heroin is similar but much stronger and more dissociative.

anyway, as i said, i dosed quite high on tianeptine to get to that opiatic state and the url you posted, it just has 10 pills and its really expensive for that. you should look into powders they are sold all over the place. my sources are from US though, you should try something in europe, or just find another source for more tianeptine pills with lower price. these guys charge dollar per pill wow and its such low mg, just 12
 







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