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centrophenoxine vs. alpha gpc


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#1 lepiricus

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Posted 06 November 2004 - 09:11 PM


I know you are supposed to supplement choline when taking piractem or aniractem, but which source would be better, centrophenoxine or alpha gpc? I know there are other beneificial aspects to each one besides choline, and I like the way centrophenoxine sounds. Do you think I could take centrophenoxine instead of alpha gpc and maintain enough choline for the aniractem?

#2 dopamine

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Posted 10 November 2004 - 06:03 PM

I know you are supposed to supplement choline when taking piractem or aniractem, but which source would be better, centrophenoxine or alpha gpc? I know there are other beneificial aspects to each one besides choline, and I like the way centrophenoxine sounds. Do you think I could take centrophenoxine instead of alpha gpc and maintain enough choline for the aniractem?


I personally don't like Centrophenoxine. As a choline source it is not very promising since it is DMAE (dimethylaminoethanol), which has been shown to inhibit the uptake of choline into the brain.

I personally use multiple sources of choline when supplementing with any of the 'racetams. I usually do 300 mg of Alpha GPC and 250 mg of Choline bitarate.

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#3 magister

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Posted 10 November 2004 - 10:57 PM

I got some bulk centro from rizzer as a freebie so I have been mixing alphaGPC and centro with my racetams....

I don't like 250mg of centro however, so I only take 100mg with 100mg of aGPC

#4 olderbutwiser

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 04:29 PM

I've found centro to be a useful and interesting supplement and I take about 100mg per day. It doesn't seem to be a very good AC precursor at any dose I've tried - from 100mg to 250mg per day continuous, up to 500mg per day on occasion. I'm pretty sensitive to AC overload and get excessive muscle tone pretty easily. I've never experienced that from Centro, but am pretty well aquainted with the dose that I overload on with most common AC precursors.

Centro's lipofuscin removal effects are noticable. I did have some small spots on the back of my hands that were detectable using a blacklight. They were totally removed by 6 months of 100mg per day of centro. Previously they had remained unchanged during a two year stint of 100mg of DMAE per day. Its pretty interesting to document a readily observable change like lipofuscin removal, you don't get that kind of objective validation with many nootropics.

I currently take 100mg per day of centro and 100mg per day of AlphaGPC . If I was to guess, I think that I'm probabaly just on the high side of optimum AC precursor dose for me. Before my current supply of AlphaGPC, I was using CDP choline. I don't notice any difference between the two as far as subjective effects.

OBW

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#5 nootropi

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Posted 14 November 2004 - 03:22 AM

Centrophenoxine definately increases acetylcholine production in rats and cats at least. The evidence is conclusive and not contradictory. I recently stopped taking it though because I want to get everything I take in bulk assayed; especially if it comes from China.

meclofenoxate = centrophenoxine

: Neuropharmacology. 1982 Apr;21(4):349-54.


Increases in choline levels in rat brain elicited by meclofenoxate.

Wood PL, Peloquin A.

Meclofenoxate, the p-cholorophenoxyacetic acid ester of deanol, was found to dramatically elevate choline (Ch) levels in the rat CNS. In the hippocampus, this elevation in choline was accompanied by a new elevated steady state level in acetylcholine (ACh). No such coupling was observed in the striatum or parietal cortex. Deanol also elevated choline levels in the CNS but was about half as potent as meclofenoxate; p-chlorophenoxyacetic acid was inactive in this respect. Lesions of striatal neurons with kainic acid and of hippocampal cholinergic nerve endings with surgical section of the fimbria indicated that the changes in choline levels were mainly extraneuronal. In spite of the changes in choline and ACh levels, no consistant alterations in ACh turnover were measured. In summary, meclofenoxate induced dramatic alterations in CNS choline metabolism and may, therefore, be a useful therapeutic tool for potentiating depressed cholinergic neurons.


Acta Physiol Pharmacol Bulg. 1979;5(3):59-66. Related Articles, Links 


Effect of centrophenoxine on acetylcholine release in perfused cerebral ventricles of cats under dynamic electrophysiological control.

Georgiev V, Chavdarov D, Petkov V, Kirilov B.

The effects of centrophenoxine on the release of acetylcholine and on the changes in the bioelectrical activity are determined in experiments on non-anaesthesized cats subjected to perfusion of the anterior horn of the lateral cerebral ventricle and simultaneous recording of the bioelectrical activity of cortical and subcortical structures. Centrophenoxine is tested in doses of 25, 50 and 100 mg/kg intravenously. Most characteristic changes are found to occur after the dose of 50 mg/kg, when centrophenoxine markedly increases the amount of the released acetylcholine and changes the bioelectrical activity (synchronous changes in the cortex and hypothalamus). The parallelism between the increase release of acetylcholine and the bioelectrical changes continued until the time of the peak effect of centrophenoxine (45 min), followed by dissociation between them (the level of the released acetylcholine gradually approached the initial level, while the changed bioelectrical activity persisted for a longer time.






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