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Aromatase inhibitors for removing libido longterm?

aromatase inhibitor libido

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#1 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 08:26 AM


I have in mind buying aromasin (exemestane) and trying a low dosage of it to try to remove my libido.

The questions are:

1. Is this possible long-term?

2. Will a loss of libido come before or after joint/muscle pain and other side-effects?

3. Are there other, more effective and more safer aromatase inhibitors than aromasin?

4. Would an aromatase inhibitor (because it has anti-coagulation effect on the blood) be a problem for someone who probably has marfan syndrome and is at risk for a torn aorta (I haven't had a doctor say this, I just assume it)?

5. What would be a good way to measure and split up the dosage of the liquid aromasin since it comes in 25mg/ml and that is too high a dosage? Would an insulin syringe do it? I need precise measurements

 

I have already had success with increasing prolactin longterm for a constant lack of sexual desire, and hardly without any side-effects (I didn't gain weight or become tired or anything).

 

Thanks for any help



#2 platypus

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 02:00 PM

Why do you want to kill your libido?


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#3 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 02:19 PM

Why do you want to kill your libido?

Because sex is for reproduction, I don't want to reproduce right now and everytime I do the sexual act it completely ruins the day for me (whether alone or not), and even days afterwards. But sexual abstinence in of itself is even more painful and troubelsome without chemical aids. 

I know prolactin increases work as I've been successful with it, but heightened prolactin is probably not good in the long run for many reasons. But what about low estrogen? It leads to higher free and total test, as well as other things. Sure there are bad sides to low estrogen such as weaker bones and probably slightly weaker joints, but is that really that bad?


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#4 gamesguru

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 02:45 PM

Yes, white button shrooms (well portabella) def work [also grapeseed extract].  I got straight limp dick a couple nights, but my mood was then also slightly depressed.

Or, instead, just limit yourself to twice a week?  As with most addictions, I expect abstinence (or, at least, reduced frequency of habit) will do much to lower cravings.

 

Male Sex Drive Depends on Both Estrogen and Testosterone

Estrogens in men: clinical implications for sexual function and the treatment of testosterone deficiency.
Another role highlighted for estrogens in the male: Sexual behavior


Edited by gamesguru, 25 November 2015 - 02:47 PM.


#5 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 02:55 PM

Yes, white button shrooms (well portabella) def work [also grapeseed extract].  I got straight limp dick a couple nights, but my mood was then also slightly depressed.

Or, instead, just limit yourself to twice a week?  As with most addictions, I expect abstinence (or, at least, reduced frequency of habit) will do much to lower cravings.

 

Male Sex Drive Depends on Both Estrogen and Testosterone

Estrogens in men: clinical implications for sexual function and the treatment of testosterone deficiency.
Another role highlighted for estrogens in the male: Sexual behavior

Thanks for the links, I was looking for things like that.

As for abstinence, I've tried it and trust me when I say that it is not worth it--for me at least. After a month you wind up ejaculating in bed while sleeping, if you can at all fall asleep - it is HELL for someone who has at least a normal libido to try and fall asleep when extremely horny, and doing HIIT or other exercise types at least doesn't help me. 

Under normal circumstances I find it difficult to sleep if I don't masturbate at least 3 times daily.  With lithium I can do with 1 ejaculation each 2 days, and with prolactin I can last for a very long time with ejaculation (but it's expensive and difficult to keep prolactin high for me).

 

If I can achieve loss of libido on aromasin with only negligible depression (which I can probably combat with a stimulant, right?) that's fine for me.

I just don't want to have heart problems, join or muscle aches, or even neurological issues. Clomiphene was hell for me--I know it's not an aromatase inhibitor.



#6 gamesguru

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 12:33 AM

→ (on boosting DHT) http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=752086

Male sexual function can be maintained without aromatization: randomized placebo-controlled trial of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in healthy, older men for 24 months.
Sartorius GA1, Ly LP, Handelsman DJ.  2014.
 INTRODUCTION:   Male sexual function is highly androgen dependent but whether aromatization of testosterone (T) to estradiol is required remains contentious.
AIM:  This study aims to investigate the effects of selective estrogen deficiency induced by a nonaromatizable androgen, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), on sexual function of healthy middle-aged and older men.
 METHODS :  Rando mized clinical trial of daily transdermal DHT (70 mg) or placebo gel treatment in 114 healthy middle-aged and older (>50 years, mean 60.5 years) men without known prostate disease maintaining selective estrogen deficiency for 24 months.
OUTCOME MEASURES AND ANALYSIS:  The end points were responses to a psychosexual and mood questionnaire completed before, at 3 months, then at 6 monthly intervals during and 3 months after study. Data were analyzed by mixed model analysis of variance for repeated measures using age and body mass index (BMI) as covariates and including interactions of treatment with age and time-on-study.
RESULTS:  DHT treatment increased serum DHT with complete suppression of serum T, luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, and estradiol throughout the 24-month study resulting in reduced spinal bone density. There were no spontaneous complaints, or discontinuations for, adverse effects on sexual function during the study. DHT administration had no effects on any of 33 measures of sexual function and mood, apart from a mild, but significant decrease in overall sexual desire, which was reversible after cessation of treatment. Increasing age and less often increasing BMI were associated with significant decreases in most aspects of sexual function.
CONCLUSIONS:  We conclude that aromatization plays only a minimal role in maintenance of sexual function in healthy eugonadal middle-aged or older men, but age and obesity are significantly associated with decreases in most aspects of self-reported sexual function and satisfaction. The dependence of male sexual function on aromatization may be conditional on age and obesity and can be overcome by a nonaromatizable androgen.



#7 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 09:54 AM

 

→ (on boosting DHT) http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=752086

Male sexual function can be maintained without aromatization: randomized placebo-controlled trial of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in healthy, older men for 24 months.
Sartorius GA1, Ly LP, Handelsman DJ.  2014.
 INTRODUCTION:   Male sexual function is highly androgen dependent but whether aromatization of testosterone (T) to estradiol is required remains contentious.
AIM:  This study aims to investigate the effects of selective estrogen deficiency induced by a nonaromatizable androgen, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), on sexual function of healthy middle-aged and older men.
 METHODS :  Rando mized clinical trial of daily transdermal DHT (70 mg) or placebo gel treatment in 114 healthy middle-aged and older (>50 years, mean 60.5 years) men without known prostate disease maintaining selective estrogen deficiency for 24 months.
OUTCOME MEASURES AND ANALYSIS:  The end points were responses to a psychosexual and mood questionnaire completed before, at 3 months, then at 6 monthly intervals during and 3 months after study. Data were analyzed by mixed model analysis of variance for repeated measures using age and body mass index (BMI) as covariates and including interactions of treatment with age and time-on-study.
RESULTS:  DHT treatment increased serum DHT with complete suppression of serum T, luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, and estradiol throughout the 24-month study resulting in reduced spinal bone density. There were no spontaneous complaints, or discontinuations for, adverse effects on sexual function during the study. DHT administration had no effects on any of 33 measures of sexual function and mood, apart from a mild, but significant decrease in overall sexual desire, which was reversible after cessation of treatment. Increasing age and less often increasing BMI were associated with significant decreases in most aspects of sexual function.
CONCLUSIONS:  We conclude that aromatization plays only a minimal role in maintenance of sexual function in healthy eugonadal middle-aged or older men, but age and obesity are significantly associated with decreases in most aspects of self-reported sexual function and satisfaction. The dependence of male sexual function on aromatization may be conditional on age and obesity and can be overcome by a nonaromatizable androgen.

 

Interesting, but I wonder whether DHT can counter the libido-busting effect of high prolactin? 

I doubt so.

 

As for using aromatase inhibitors, again, wouldn't it be possible long-term as long as the dose is low?

I know, if it makes me depressed, it could probably be an issue for me since I am already sort-of depressed, just don't feel it.

 

Is estrogen's effect on libido mediated through neurotransmission receptors such as dopamine, glutamine, etc., since you say it also makes you depressed, or is it mediated through estrogen receptors themselves?

In other words, couldn't I just take a mood boosting dug to counter the depressed mood while lowering my estrogen?

 

I am interested in hearing about people who have taken aromatase inhibitors long term such as months, and what their experiences have been when on them, even if just in low dosages. Don't women with breast cancer take aromtase inhibitors or anti-estrogens for years? It seems they all end up looking a bit manly in the end lol 



#8 platypus

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 10:26 AM

 

Why do you want to kill your libido?

Because sex is for reproduction,

Where did you get that rather ridiculous idea? Genes might need sex just to reproduce themselves but humans have way better uses for sex than that. I hope you're not carrying some religious baggage about sex & masturbation...


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#9 gamesguru

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 04:44 PM

humans have way better uses for sex

 

such as increasing demand for unfulfilling relationships, surgical abortion, hormonal pills, and soiled condoms.  In order to undo these evils, it is only necessary to abandon civilization.  Or there's the symptomthermal method/periodic abstinence, which you have to be Catholic to oppose.  But it still doesn't solve the problem of unfulfilling relationships.


Edited by gamesguru, 26 November 2015 - 04:47 PM.

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#10 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 06:12 PM

Where did you get that rather ridiculous idea? Genes might need sex just to reproduce themselves but humans have way better uses for sex than that. I hope you're not carrying some religious baggage about sex & masturbation...

 

 

Please don't derail the topic as stated in the title, we can discuss about the topic of the purpose of sex in private messaging.

But let me at least say as a last thing that you are confusing the reasons people do things for the purpose of doing a thing. A thing can have a purpose wholly apart from the reasons people do it, and vice versa. 



#11 panhedonic

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 09:11 AM

Why does it ruin your day? Do you feel depressed or ill after you have sex? What is the problem with having sex exactly? 

 

There's such a thing as Post Ejaculatory Illness Syndrome (or something like that)

 

Also, how old are you?



#12 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 10:17 AM

Why does it ruin your day? Do you feel depressed or ill after you have sex? What is the problem with having sex exactly? 

 

There's such a thing as Post Ejaculatory Illness Syndrome (or something like that)

 

Also, how old are you?

I have the following symptoms after I masturbate (and depending upon how much I do it in a day, it's worsened by a great deal):

1. Obviously fatigue.

2. Poor ability to concentrate.

3. My thoughts become more scattered and incoherent than before.

4. I can feel feminine, not in the so-called "trans" sense but in the same sense as if I shake my hips (there's a reason most men don't do that), I just don't feel masculine at all.

5. Sometimes I can become extremely horny in the estrogen sense of having a limp penis but still wanting to participate in sex. It's easier to abstain from sexual activity 3+ days after I last did it, ironically.

6. My inner voice becomes more racing than it is normally.

7. I am very prone to believing things I wouldn't otherwise believe, in the sense of placebo effects or being gullible.

8. Social anxiety is worsened, if at all I feel anything.

9. My lack of ability to feel anything is worsened almost always.

10. My senses in general become dulled significantly.

11. My muscles become significantly weak, making exercising much more troublesome.

12. My spatial coordination in the sense of finding roads, planning even small trips I take everyday, becomes significantly harder.

 

Basically, I experience most of the things men normally experience, just to a greater extent.
It doesn't really help if I am with a woman as opposed to being alone, other than after having been with the women I might feel very masculine (due to the increase in test or dht?) for a short while.

 

Of course, I am one of the guys who also happens to not be very successful with women - boohoo, poor me - so it's not like I could have sex instead of masturbating. I only masturbate to get those annoying sexual feelings and thoughts out of me, and so I can sleep at all.

As for age? As my name suggests, I obviously want to be unknown, but I can give a hint that I am over 22.



#13 Sleepdealer

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 04:28 PM

You mentioned in your other thread that you felt a lot better on pregnenolone 30 mg. Have you tried masturbating when on it, and how did you feel if so? I'm not extremely knowledgeable on pregnenolone, but I know it is a precursor to the sex hormones in the body. Have you ever went to a doctor for this whole matter and had a hormone panel done on you to see if you have low levels of anything? Because I mean, if you feel a big difference on your quality of life on something (that isn't harmful/illegal drugs :)), you should have it looked up if you have the possibility.



#14 Blink

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 04:30 PM

Try peppermint. I used to add lots of it in my daily smoothie. It freed me from having sexual fantasies at night and an annoying booner in the morning.



#15 TheOpimizer

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 06:38 PM

Does anyone mind summarizing why an AI would lower libido? I'm currently taking Arimistane (Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione) and based on the research I've done it lowers estrogen and cortisol and as a result also raises test. 

 

From what I've learned high test individuals typically have no libido problems, and generally have above average libido.

 

I'm 22 and for the most part have very high libido so I guess I'm not concerned about it being lowered a tad, just want to know why an AI would do that?

 

Also, RatherBeUnknown - I would suggest that instead of trying to lower your libido to remove your symptoms, just use your will power and abstain from sexual activity (specifically ejaculating) and watch your motivation go through the roof within 3-4 days.  


Edited by TheOpimizer, 28 November 2015 - 06:39 PM.


#16 Keizo

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 04:14 PM

Maybe you'd want to lower your prolactin and not increase it. That way you might not feel so bad after ejaculation. I've had some mild-moderate problems with ejaculation, it making me too tired, too socially anxious, etc for 1-3 days. What seems to help me is for example Selegiline (which when I take it I take 1.25mg sublingually, regular tablet dissolved into a paste beforehand and smeared under tongue), and even Shilajit (1-2 tablets of the Jarrow formula) or pure Fulvic Acid (about 30ml at 6% fulvic acid content) to a noticeable extent. I presume both of these lower prolactin through some sort of dopaminergic action (dopamine also sometimes known as prolactin inhibiting hormone and so forth). http://press.endocri.../edrv.22.6.0451

If you want to keep it simple try selegiline then jerk off and see if things are improved. What I do is I cycle it, and only take it for 8 days in a row, then take a long break, for (perhaps unfounded) fear of cancer/mutations due to lowered apoptosis rates. My main reason for using it however is just too try and get some more BDNF flowing in my brain.

 

Someone on the forum suspected Fasoracetam lowered prolactin, and I do as well (an intelligent and uneducated nobody). It makes ejaculation less intense for me and if I recall correctly also for all the effects for the time/days after (the tiredness etc).

 

 


Edited by Keizo, 29 November 2015 - 04:42 PM.


#17 Keizo

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 05:12 PM

Does anyone mind summarizing why an AI would lower libido? I'm currently taking Arimistane (Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione) and based on the research I've done it lowers estrogen and cortisol and as a result also raises test. 

 

From what I've learned high test individuals typically have no libido problems, and generally have above average libido.

 

I'm 22 and for the most part have very high libido so I guess I'm not concerned about it being lowered a tad, just want to know why an AI would do that?

 

Also, RatherBeUnknown - I would suggest that instead of trying to lower your libido to remove your symptoms, just use your will power and abstain from sexual activity (specifically ejaculating) and watch your motivation go through the roof within 3-4 days.  

Well, unless they are using an AI or similar, men with high testosterone (naturally, or through e.g. injections) have significant amounts of estrogen as far as I know. However according to Jason Blaha (and in part what I have read for other people's experience with TRT) testosterone replacement does not typically require an AI. Jason has got circa 1000ng/dl s-testosterone from his injections, doesn't use AI's, has a hard dick, and thinks that AI's are basically reserved for people with problems (problems such as being a professional bodybuilder). 



#18 TheOpimizer

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:47 PM

Well I'm just trying out Arimistane to try and get a little better return on my relatively small time at the gym (3-4 hours a week) given that based on the research I've done it seems fairly harmless and is proven to increase test and decrease estrogen and cortisol. I'm especially interested about the decrease in cortisol as I'm hoping that this would help me to reduce stress and anxiety.



#19 Keizo

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 10:26 AM

Well I'm just trying out Arimistane to try and get a little better return on my relatively small time at the gym (3-4 hours a week) given that based on the research I've done it seems fairly harmless and is proven to increase test and decrease estrogen and cortisol. I'm especially interested about the decrease in cortisol as I'm hoping that this would help me to reduce stress and anxiety.

I'm taking some grape seed extract myself (supposedly an AI in humans, among other things) mostly for potential cognitive benefit. But it (decreasing estrogen) might not help very much with muscles: 



#20 platypus

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 10:56 AM

Playing around with sex-hormones is not risk free. Would it not be more prudent to limit ejaculation to once a day max instead of starting to tweak hormones and hoping the problem will disappear?



#21 TheOpimizer

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 05:41 AM

 

Well I'm just trying out Arimistane to try and get a little better return on my relatively small time at the gym (3-4 hours a week) given that based on the research I've done it seems fairly harmless and is proven to increase test and decrease estrogen and cortisol. I'm especially interested about the decrease in cortisol as I'm hoping that this would help me to reduce stress and anxiety.

I'm taking some grape seed extract myself (supposedly an AI in humans, among other things) mostly for potential cognitive benefit. But it (decreasing estrogen) might not help very much with muscles: 

 

 

Interesting video...not sure I'm buying it though. Arimistane also lowers cortisol, which for me especially (more stressed than average), is potentially a great benefit. Also I'm of the belief that food products out there these days (tons of chemicals and soy) promote high estrogen, I would argue that as a population men probably have a lower T:E ratio than they used to (and did naturally). I don't believe take Arimistane for a month is going to make my ratio extreme to the point where it's detrimental. When it comes down to it test is king for muscle building, more test more muscle, and that's nothing this guy in the video is going to change my opinion about. 

 

But I guess I'll find out in a month.



#22 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 03:22 PM

As I emphasized, abstinence is painful and sure I can abstain for a whole week but God how painful and counter-productive that is, as I get depressed and can't get those annoying sexual thoughts out of my head, even if I meditate or focus my mind on whatever subject.

It just doesn't make sense to go through hell just to have a sperm build-up that will eventually come out anyway - that's obviously why I want to find a chemical to suppress my libido without destroying my testosterone production or causing suffering.

 

I actually went ahead and bought aromasin and tried it in the smallest dosages imaginable. I tried a very, very tiny amount and it produced hardly any effect besides a minimal reduction in libido. The next day I tried a very slightly bigger amount and I got the typical menopausal effects that women get, such as a warm sensation in the body as if I am in a sauna, insomnia (ironic, isn't it?) and overslept (but I do like this effect), as well as pain in muscles, especially around the neck, anxiety (and I don't think it's just a placebo) but loss of libido? No, though sexual thoughts are suppressed for a very short while, after which they're still ever so slightly suppressed but masturbation is not a problem.

Lithium orotate is more useful for libido busting than aromasin, that's for sure.

 

I don't understand why people complain of a destroyed libido on aromatase inhibitors as I got the severer side-effects without a significant reduction in libido. Then there was the mentioned study of dht being able to increase libido in spite reduced estradiol levels - well, I don't think my dht is high, I think it might be very low, even, as I don't feel "calm and collected, " masculine or anything you'd expect from dht, and I certainly don't have a hairy body - quite the opposite.

 

My "libido" is a fantasy-like one, the same with women. It's not that I have a massive hard-on and just want to penetrate something with the force of a thousand titans. No, I just have sexual fantasies - sort of perversions - and I feel a desire to act on them, even if I can't get a hard-on. If I don't act on them and wait 3 days then I do wake up with hard-ons.

My point here being that my libido is not the masculine sort you'd expect to find in men. Wouldn't this suggest heightened estrogen? Yet, clearly that wouldn't make sense.

Does aromatase play any role other than just converting test. to est.? In other words, if a human was born with no aromatase enzyme in his body, yet his estrogen levels were completely healthy, would that have any effect at all on his health (besides increasing test., etc.)??

Why do I ask this? Well, since aromatase converts test. to est. couldn't I take a high dosage of an aromatase inhibitor while supplementing phytoestrogens, such that my total testosterone goes higher yet I suffer zero effects of low estrogen? That to me sounds completely possible, yet I suspect otherwise.

And why would aromasin give me low-estrogen side-effects when I take it later in the day? Does test. convert to est. 24/7 or what??

 

Keizo I don't think prolactin is the problem. When I increase prolactin I feel calm and collected, with no libido, but I don't feel socially anxious or fatigued in the sense of how I feel after I masturbate.

What's weird is that when I masturbate I might feel an even stronger desire to do so again, even if my penis hurts, even if I am tired, yada-yada. 

How would this make sense if my prolactin was high?--which it probably is.

Pregnenolone helps my masturbation side-effects partially but not wholly.



#23 platypus

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 06:14 PM

Have you discussed this with a doctor and/or a therapist? 

 

If having no libido really is your goal you should consider chemical castration:

 

https://en.wikipedia...ical_castration



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#24 Yusuf

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 10:46 PM

I think I can help you. because I'm having the opposite of your problem. I am 27 years old. especially my beard started to grow very little on my body. The hair in the genital area also grows very slowly. I no longer have a high sexual desire. I can masturbate. Porn warns me. Imagination no longer works. Or a sex drive on the street just doesn't work. Normally, my sexual desire was very high. These problems started 6 months ago. What do you think I did 6 months ago? First of all, I went through a stressful period. I used Olfrex medicine, I used olanzapine, the active ingredient, for only 1 month. I don't remember what else I did. How can I increase sexual desire? How to increase beard and genital hair? I do not know. testosterone was normal. Prolactin was a little high when I first got tested. A little over the limit. Then prolactin improved. Maybe olfrex olanzapine can do that to you. I also drank herbal teas. Melissa tea fennel tea. I don't remember any other. Maybe they did. My problem is maybe the estrogen is too high. I do not know. I will try an estrogen blocker.





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