• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans


Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.


Photo
- - - - -

Venezuela welcomes its new dictator.


  • Please log in to reply
111 replies to this topic

#91 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:21 PM

How many times does capitalism need to fail before we learn it's not working? Why assume we should go back to a system of the past anyway? With all that we have done and continue to do you really think we can't come up with a fairer society that not full of chaos, stress and misery we have now? That's absurd...
  • dislike x 2
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Disagree x 1
  • Agree x 1

#92 Diocletian

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Earth

Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:26 PM

I think capitalism with welfare policies is a good system, best of both worlds.



#93 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:28 PM

And let's not forget the Soviet Union didn't collapse, it was a fairly unexpected change when the corrupt layer that governed the Soviet Union came to the conclusion they could be much more personally rich under capitalism... which they where. The general population was and continues to be worse off. Figures show growth would likely be higher under the old system to the new. And that's with all its faults, so what does that say about capitalism ah!?

I think capitalism with welfare policies is a good system, best of both worlds.


It would but that's not really worked either has it? I mean practically it hasn't has it? It's somewhat utopian to think it ever will based on last experience...
  • Disagree x 1
  • Agree x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#94 Diocletian

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Earth

Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:31 PM

Scandinavian countries have this system.



#95 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:37 PM

Scandinavian countries have this system.


True and I'd much rather be living there then in the uk! But we live in a global world, so cherrry picking this country and that isn't fair. I mean if the west didn't have cheap goods from china and India things would cost hugely more so we would have less of a quality of life. But if we paid Chinese workers more it's the same problem. Somewhere someone's got to suffer is the harsh truth of capitalism...

And even in the 'rich west' including the scandivaun countries wages have stagnated over the last thirty years...
  • Agree x 2
  • Needs references x 1

#96 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:57 PM

Now Maduro has kicked out CNN. How dare they report about the horrific facts on the ground in the formerly advanced country (before communists ruined it)

 

http://www.el-nacion...venezuela_80601



#97 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:17 AM

Communism? 95% of the means of production are in the hands of the private rich elite, not publicly owned... its right to say the government needs to change direction but it's not to some libratariens nightmare, it's away from this nonsense liberal 'third way' politics discredited many years ago and towards a true socialist system! The capitalists will not live with reforms, they will do as they have done, hord pushing up prices, murder and distort the facts. Funny you're less concerned posting that ah Mind? Youre right the government isn't doing a good job but that's because there still trying to work with a broken system, capitalism.

For a better, more impartial analysis check: http://www.marxist.c...es-for-2017.htm
  • Good Point x 2

#98 jroseland

  • Guest
  • 1,117 posts
  • 162
  • Location:Europe

Posted 15 February 2017 - 08:52 PM

This thread is 10 years old! Wow!


  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1

#99 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 31 March 2017 - 08:38 PM

Another communist country follows the same path of every other communist country. Was it even a question.

 

Just like in the former Soviet Union, The Maduro government cannot even ensure the population has bread, sad.

 

First it was evil corporations causing all the troubles (not Chavez or Maduro, of course), then it was those evil media outlets causing troubles for the country (not Chavez or Maduro), now Maduro has gotten rid of the Venezuela's legislature because they are the reason the country is in big trouble. (not Maduro, of course).

 

For the sake of the suffering citizens, hopefully the military can execute a bloodless coup.



#100 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:27 PM

Communist? How so? Who owns the means of production? A few rich individuals... .you do know what the country was like before Chavez? Why do you think the populist movement started? What we see in the country is the shortcomings of reformism. Capitalism in any form will fail...
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Good Point x 1
  • dislike x 1
  • like x 1

#101 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:05 PM

For a less hysterical and hypocritical anyalsis please see: http://www.marxist.c...n-venezuela.htm

#102 Keizo

  • Guest
  • 483 posts
  • 33
  • Location:Sweden
  • NO

Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:03 AM

Communist? How so? Who owns the means of production? A few rich individuals... .you do know what the country was like before Chavez? Why do you think the populist movement started? What we see in the country is the shortcomings of reformism. Capitalism in any form will fail...

Yeah I guess that explains Chile under Pinochet? People got poorer and poorer and inflation never stopped, oh wait.....



#103 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:08 AM

Are you seriously using chile as an example to defend capitalism!? Ha ha, wow! I mean seriously!? Chile elected a socialist leader prior to Pinochet. An American funded coup then ensued to keep the country capitalist, the state was hugely rolled back in a extreme free market experiment. Pinochet butchered thousands of people and yes everyone got poorer.... that was capitalism, you do understand that?

'Pinochet a socialist', ha ha now I've heard everything!

All you have done there is give a great example of western hypocrisy...

Edited by Karl909, 04 April 2017 - 07:09 AM.

  • Ill informed x 2
  • Good Point x 1
  • like x 1

#104 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 28 April 2018 - 11:05 AM

I am beating a dead horse now. Patients and doctors brutalized by police when  protesting at the national health service.

 

Amazing how many people still believe that a socialist tyranny (like Venezuela) would be so awesome.


Edited by Mind, 28 April 2018 - 11:06 AM.

  • Good Point x 1
  • Agree x 1

#105 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 28 April 2018 - 12:03 PM

I am beating a dead horse now. Patients and doctors brutalized by police when protesting at the national health service.

Amazing how many people still believe that a socialist tyranny (like Venezuela) would be so awesome.


To quote wiki “Capitalism is an economic system based upon private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.“

The means of production is in the hands of a few private individuals, so Venezula is capitalist that has been reformed a bit... Why the rich can wage there economic war in the country. There the ones causing such devastation, by hoarding food, it’s astonishingly messed up and sums up capitalism...

The funniest thing when libratariens use this as an example of socialism not working is it ignores the brutality America has inflicted on South America over the last 100 years to suppress socialism in the region, and kept capitalism alive in its incredibly dysfunctional way... By funding coups, installing dictators, so ironic your words mind...
  • Good Point x 2
  • Ill informed x 1

#106 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 28 April 2018 - 01:16 PM

Socialists and communists around the world are free to move to Venezuela and help out, donate all of their time, and money....but they don't.

 

??


  • Good Point x 2
  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • Ill informed x 1
  • like x 1

#107 Karl909

  • Guest
  • 37 posts
  • 9
  • Location:Bristol, uk

Posted 28 April 2018 - 01:47 PM

Socialists and communists around the world are free to move to Venezuela and help out, donate all of their time, and money....but they don't.

??

What a strange comment... I mean they do but I’m sure your extensive studies you’ve conducted prove otherwise...

Edited by Karl909, 28 April 2018 - 01:47 PM.

  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • Ill informed x 1
  • like x 1

#108 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:23 PM

Supreme Court justice flees Venezuela. 

 

People don't like living in a dictatorship. I suspect more influential people will flee, like hundreds of thousands of other citizens already have.


  • Good Point x 1
  • like x 1

#109 experimenting

  • Guest
  • 639 posts
  • 6
  • Location:New York

Posted 14 January 2019 - 12:52 AM

Supreme Court justice flees Venezuela. 

 

People don't like living in a dictatorship. I suspect more influential people will flee, like hundreds of thousands of other citizens already have.

 

 

So, socialism doesn't work. But what about capitalism?

 

Look at the US right now-it seems clear capitalism is failing a large number of people. Flint, Michigan can't get drinkable water-and in NYC people who already own $30mm apartments are buying two others just for kicks.

 

What's to be done? Is it that you can't legislate away a culture problem (the only thing that matters in the US in 2018 is greed)?


  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • Ill informed x 1

#110 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 18,997 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 26 January 2019 - 01:59 PM

The Chavez/Maduro regime has been a near complete disaster for the Venezuelan people. I have pointed this out for a few years now.

 

However, I will acknowledge that the U.S. has now taken an activist role in the political landscape in Venezuela (publicly supporting the opposition candidate in the recent election). This is wrong/bad, in my view. The socialist dictatorship was well on its way to collapsing on its own. No need for meddling.


  • Good Point x 1

#111 Seganfredo

  • Guest
  • 108 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil

Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:46 PM

How many times does the communism need to fail till we learn it's not working.

 

As many times as we need to learn we gotta outgramsci Gramsci.

Education (indoctrination) is where it all starts. Without useful idiots graduating in history (editing the past), journalism (editing the present), arts (poisoning culture) and all other fields, really, they would not be able to stand rational scrutiny.

As it is, rationality is far supplanted by fantasy and misinformation.

We ought to free universities from "socialist" (communist/globalization) hold.

Good luck for us - and strength. It's a long-term task that starts at our house, goes to our circle of friends and girls/boyfriends and then the general public.

 

 

And Congrats to Venezuelan friends for their new president,

(even though it's a left-wing one... *facepalm* fer fokssaiks...)

Maduro's reign of terror is quickly coming to an end.


Edited by Seganfredo, 11 February 2019 - 08:13 PM.

  • Good Point x 1

#112 Seganfredo

  • Guest
  • 108 posts
  • 5
  • Location:Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil

Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:09 PM

We can win over the most far left person/crowd by understanbding their motives. 

 

Generally speaking, they're from the left cause they have a need to fit in, "do & be good" and honestly believe we're all evil.

 

They're heavily fear & guilt-driven, which forces them to be "terribly good", far more pro-social then us. In the airplane metaphor, we put the oxigen masks first on ourselves, then others - they'd try to put on everyone else first - out of guilt -, then later on themselves. They call this guilt "being good". They're deeply abused by awful misinformation repeated over and over again on universities, media, etc. Moreso then ourselves. We pay attention to end results and go for continuous improvement, while they get completely lost on a sea of group feelings, visions our world as totally corrupt with nothing to redeem it, and imagination of a different, perfect world, which needs the utter destruction of the current completely evil one to come into being ("revolution").

 

Their whole lives revolve around being "for the cause", and their social circles bonds depend 100% on it. They fear not being for the cause, for doing so instantly turns one into a social anathema (betrayer of the cause).

 

Fun, wit, being interesting and pleasantly elucidative by dropping useful info that inconspicuously/benevolently clashes with their worldview opens them up and wins them over.

 

As an ex., I recently dated an extremist Worker's Party girl, strong in the movement, who ran for city councellor (she was a client, I didn't know she was a leftie). From hater, she soon learned to be deeply appreciating of the fact that right wing people are actually PRO-SOCIAL & PRO-FREEDOM, but just in a different (infinitely more intelligent, result-driven...) way - by minimizing the state's power and taking control over our lives, protecting ourselves from abuse that inherently comes with the growth of the state, and also doing lots of good.

 

They think that some of the worst problems in the world come from power/economic-imbalance; which is true. But it's not "the rich vs. the poor", it's the "state vs. the people" with anyone who benefits from crony capitalism being part of the corrupt state that needs to be put in check for the greater good.

 

Capitalism is not politics - it's economics. Conversely, crony capitalism isn't economics, but politics at its worst.


Edited by Seganfredo, 11 February 2019 - 08:44 PM.

  • Good Point x 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users