What if I told you a drug like NZT-48* exists today?

Well? Would you call me a liar? Or would you open your eyes to the truth?

*NZT-48 is the drug from the movie Limitless which allowed the user to gain near limitless perfect execution in any thought of mental task.

Extrodinary claims require extrodinary proof...

Those who sit around and wait for others to prove their curiosities are the very same people who forever subsist in normalcy.

note, hypomania ≠ actual grandiosity

Would you call me a liar?

No. Why would I do that?

Or would you open your eyes to the truth?

Meaning?..

Well? Would you call me a liar? Or would you open your eyes to the truth?

Do you know what a double bind is?
Or petitio principii?

If you say modafinil like those "science writers" have been claiming i'm going to want to virtually slap you

Seriously that drug makes you fell not tired when you are tired. It does not make you some super genius! Those articles had me very annoyed lol.


Bill at etizsupplyusa.com

edit: I did not mean offense by this, this was in jest- a reference to something unrelated to the topic at hand.

Edited by etizsupplyusa.com, 04 November 2013 - 02:02 AM.

No, not Modafinil. I'm a speaking of a drug that is conceptually exactly like NZT-48. I'm not here to tell any of you what that drug is called, or if it even exists, because it is irreverent, if it did, you wouldn't get your hands on it by me telling you about it.

What I am seeing here, so far, is that people can't see past their own doubt and need for validation of some kind. See, nothing great was ever invented before it was first a mere seed in someones mind.... a seed that some individual thought was possible, and sought out to make a reality.

See, even if such a substance did exist, and I knew about it, do you honestly think I would tell you? Do you honestly think anybody would? Even the most ethical pro-human individual in the world would not reveal it taking into consideration the stupidity and immorality that exists on this planet. See, things like superhuman-intelligence drugs, immortality methods, immortality technology, will never be exposed to the public; anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. They are reserved for the elite, and the incredibly wealthy, not just to obtain, but to even know about them.

Here we face a common thing in the world. Secret and powerful knowledge is kept from the mass majority because if known for a fact by the majority it would have grave implications. Such knowledge will only ever be available to those who can first believe in its existence, and seek it out - I know.

Now what is the meaning of all this? Hopefully to make you the reader of this to think. If this hasn't caused some spark of growing curiosity in your brain, then maybe you need to reevaluate your understanding of the world. Nothing truly worth knowing or having will ever be available or known just because it exists - think about that. Think about the secrets you have, and how petty they may be compared to a global scale of things; now think about the secrets that select individuals possess that are worth more than anything on this planet, only a fool would think they don't exist.

There is this fundamental problem in the world that every person will come to realize sooner or later.... a fundamental problem that every person tends to unconsciously assume every other person in the world has the same everyday life as them. The truth is, you don't know what's behind closed doors. You don't really know what the other billions of people are doing on the planet. You only know what you know, and the moment you stop wondering is the moment your life grows stagnant and begins to atrophy.

That is true of most ethical transhumanist revealing it too the general public, I will give you that. However, I like to consider myself an ethical transhumanist. If I had such a compound I would want to share it with fellow transhumanists. And from their, all it takes is one unethical one who thinks like a business man to market it, and BOOM it explodes, first by internet rumors, then stores start popping up calling it a nootropic or research chemical. If such a compound exists, there is not enough safety testing on it, unless a giant pharmaceutical company is developing it. In that case there should be patents and paperwork that somebody would find.

That was an incredibly interesting post. I am sure there are secrets of this magnitude. Secrets have a way of slowly spreading into rumors, especially when they are valuable. And all it takes is one entrepreneur to market it and the whole world knows.

You are very right about the closed door concept. Think of all the darpa projects that are secret and way ahead of our time. Some country, corporation, or brilliant researcher could have such a compound. If it is the first two, people are getting it tested on them. This kind of thing tends to get out, at least eventually. If it is a researcher, who knows.

Either way you make some fantastic points and this is a very interesting conversation. My modafinil comment was merely a reference to the string of articles that came out claiming modafinil was NZT, which bothered me alot.

If you like to discuss this more, I would love to hear your thoughts, you are certainly an intelligent, enlightened person.

Sincerely-

Bill at etizsupplyusa.com

I will say the first two comments after you hold merit however. I think that what you are claiming is theoretically possible. But if it is known to a select few with no intention on sharing, what good does it do us to ponder it's existence? The person who said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" was correct. However this has turned into a fascinating conversation.


Sincerely-

Bill at etizsupplyusa.com

What good does it do to ponder its existence? What good does it do to think about anything that we haven't done yet? Nothing worthwhile happens in our lives until we first have that initial thought, then the desire to make it happen. That desire will lead us to thinking, and thinking, and thinking, and it is in this that we will cycle through many ideas. So long as we have faith in our desire, we will continually come up with new ideas. Some ideas may not be very good, other ideas may be brilliant. It is unlikely the brilliant ones will be part of the first batch, but it is possible. People often make plans for something, or have some goal or thought in their mind, and give up too quickly. Their dream only dies the moment they give up on it and lose faith in it. This should answer your question. While certain people in the world who hold certain secrets may not give them up willing, there is one thing that is certain.... that one thing that is certain is that you and every other conscious individual on this planet is a thinking and contemplative force capable of bringing change in other systems on this planet, change to be reckoned with.

My belief in impossible things in the past has put me on paths and led me to finding out, discovering, and achieving many things that I would never have had I originally not challenged belief in the impossible. I've realized the power of human belief. The power that it can have in conceiving thoughts that can lead to wonderful things. A persons imagination is the only thing limiting what they do with their life.

To build off one of your points: I personally think marketing something like this superhuman-intelligence drug is a terrible idea. Assuming a single person finds it, and knows it works, that person would never expose it. Marketing it will only bring two things: Money & more of that same intelligence level. If a person used this intelligence drug to be in a class of their own, they could effortlessly amass a wealth in the trillions over a period of time. They would have the advantage over every person on the planet. It is also likely they could use such an intelligence to develop their own form of immortality, and if a person can live forever there is literally no limit on the amount of wealth or material objects they could amass, so long as we all exist on this planet.

Now, if such a person who discovered such a thing is not motivated by money and wealth, then what? The only rational thing to do, would be to destroy it, or, they could take a risk and get it out to everyone at once, but who knows what chaos would ensue assuming the emotional systems of every human stay the same. If it were me I would attempt to develop a slow-time release thing, and somehow incorporate it into the diets of every person on the planet. Kinda sounds like a GMO sort of thing, haha. Is money really the only reason they want everyone to eat only their food? Sure it's a good business plan, but is that the only plan? Malevolent, Benevolent? Who knows. Lets not make this about GMO, though.

There are many people out there in the world who know things they cannot tell anyone, but they simultaneously urge those people to challenge the impossible by believing in it and trying to imagine a way in which it might work. After all, that is the next best thing you can do next to telling them when you can't actually tell them.

Edited by Siro, 04 November 2013 - 02:15 AM.

You make some very interesting points. The pondering of somethings existence does lead to discovery. I was moreso referring to pondering about it while simultaneously knowing that something like this already exists. It is unlikely you would be able to recreate it, without significant investment and some kind of clue as to structure, activity in the body, etc. This makes it not a financially worthwhile venture. But lets say somebody does discover it. It is unlikely they would create it alone, and even more unlikely they would make it alone without telling anyone (I'm speaking private market). To take it themselves to make these trillions you speak off is incredibly risky, how do they know what they have invented won't kill them through some unknown pathway? The average intelligent scientist would try to patent it and get human trials going (unless your Alexander Shulgin, but he was a one of a kind scientist working off of known starting compounds). I just feel that it would be practically impossible for one person to invent a safe drug and take it without telling anybody without any human testing. I do believe nootropics significantly better than what we have are out there waiting to be discovered, and that they will emerge in the coming decades, but I don't believe they will be kept a secret- maybe by the military, but a number of their pilots/marines, etc would know of it, and rumors of it would spread.

I agree wholeheartedly about the belief in things considered impossible by the average person (isn't that what transhumanism is at it's core?). Imagination is a powerful tool, consider Kekule, whole discovered the structure for benzene in a dream. This dream he had led to monumental advancement in the understanding of aromatic molecules, and was huge in it's day.

About the marketing thing. The flaw I have with your argument is this. How would one KNOW it works, free of dangerous side effects or risk of cancer or death? This couldn't happen without human trials, or some superhuman entity giving them the structure, something I consider unlikely in the next 10-20 years. I agree with the rest of your points if they did know, but they wouldn't, at least not in my opinion.

What I would do is patent it and try to get funding for human trials, or if that doesn't work sell it as a research nootropic and disclose all known information and risks. I would password protect this website store, and only give it too members of forums like this who have proven they are responsible, fundamentally good human beings. This could create a network of super intelligent people, who could work on the worlds problem's via a think-tank I would create with the profits.

If the person who discovers the drug is not motivated by money or wealth, there is still the issue of side effects. They would still have to do human trials before responsibly taking it. This would put the drug out their. They in theory could just go for it like Shulgin did, but I just don't see someone coming up with this drug FIRST TRY. Pharmacology is trial and error, and they would have to go through a number of compounds before finding possible categories. Maybe if p=np, and we found a way to model the complete metabolism and effects of a compound on every cell of the body over time, the compound could be found in the manor you describe. But I don't think this is likely in the near future, current known tech does not allow it. I'm not saying it is never possible, but it would take some serious advances.

Perhaps you are one of these people you mention, urging us to look for something you know but cannot tell us. If so I am envious of you, and wish I had some clue or place to start, and the resources to build a multidisciplinary team to work on the project.

But alas I do not have this, and this talk is in all likelihood complete hypothetical conjecture. Interesting nonetheless.

I like you Siro, you have really made me think tonight

Sincerely-

Bill at etizsupplyusa.com

Intelligence is not the same as wisdom...many very smart people are very poor because they don't know what to do with that intelligence (I know some who have even ended up living homeless under a bridge).

Bill Gates has everything he could possibly want so now he is sitting back and enjoying giving it away...If someone has all they could want after using a wonder intelligence drug then they have no reason to share their discovery. Hoarding and selfishness are signs of mental problems which should be fixed by the wonder drug.......

That is a good point, but intelligence and emotional/psychological problems would not necessarily be cured by the same compound. Selfishness is a personality trait, not a lack of intelligence.

Just something to think about

Sincerely-

Bill at etizsupplyusa.com

Of course it would be rather vague and blunt to say "This compound increases intelligent by this much!"

Rather, I think a more apt description of a compound similar to NZT-48, in its most perfect sense, would be that it allows human consciousness to work at 100% perfect efficiency, however this may be. For this to work, the inventor would have to understand the prime moving force of consciousness, of course.

Perhaps such a compound could work by making synaptic signals transport with fail? Imagine, a thought moving from one part of the brain to another... Memories stored perfectly the first time. Memories recalled perfectly, etc. Theoretically there are a number of ways these type of things could be achieved. Assuming only the current knowledge of mainstream science, one could build off multiple theories of how such a drug would work from a neuroscientific perspective. Though, here we face, not only the problem of not entirely understand how consciousness works, or what it is exactly, for that matter, but also in trying to figure out a way to synthesize such a compound.

I've have spent my years trying to become at least partially knowledgeable in a variety of useful technological and scientific fields, and there is one thing that I have noticed that simply blows my mind.... The fact that chemistry, while advanced as we have it, is STILL an incredibly underdeveloped field. There are likely millions if not billions of possible reaction catalyst types that have yet to be used, let alone discovered. There are many theoretical molecules that exist that right now we simply do not have the knowledge to create. The field of modern chemistry is still very primitive considering the amount of possibilities that exist.

I am actually in the process of writing a program that will be capable of discovering millions upon millions of supereffective nootropics as well as a host of other chemistry milestones, which I would go in depth about, but it's kind of my brain child in progress <3.

There is a whole scientific field that deals with shaping theoretical molecules around certain receptors so they react with those receptors perfectly. The problem is building these theoretical molecules. Plants(and Animals) do it amazingly. Plants overtime have evolved the perfect DNA strands that spawn proteins which can effectively process molecules in complex ways. These proteins are like mini factories in that they can make chemical modifications a million times more complicated than anything modern chemistry deals with. It's actually not that hard in theory with the latest technology. Scientist now have ways to building DNA strands in any sequence. There are actually public/free Genome Creator programs(google them) where anyone can download them and create a DNA sequence that is programmed to produce protein strands which when finished will pop out into a little protein factory. These DNA strands can be printed up with the right ends so that they can be used with Recombinant DNA technology to be accepted into the E. Coli bacteria. This will results in the E. Coli producing the protein(or other simple molecule) by processing the DNA strand. The problem the average lay person faces with this is that getting these strands printed for use in an E. Coli medium can cost up hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not cheap. Though, in some of these programs people can submit their theoretical DNA strands and even get them patented and get paid for them.

One of these programs I toyed with came with a bunch of preincluded DNA strands for things such as the AIDS virus and other types of things, including the bioluminescence gene. It was surprisingly easy to create a DNA strand that made the AIDS virus 10x more powerful as well as making the host[victim] glow(in theory based on the sequence). Unbeknowst to public knowledge, it would not be hard what so ever to create a very deadly modified form of any preexisting already sequenced flu or virus strain, print the DNA out, and inject it into an existing living form of the virus, causing it to start reproducing the newer and more deadly version. It's really scary when you think about it, but this is technology scientist already possess today. There's actually no regulations what so ever on this. Any rich person could come up with a theoretical DNA strand, have it printed for "research purposes" and then in a private laboratory breed some newer deadly form of a virus. The only real limiting factor is the cost that it costs to print these DNA strands.

This above method is in fact how insulin is produced on a economic scale. Theoretically any protein, or gene, can be created. The problem comes in understanding how the protein works as its own mini-factory and how it will process the molecule. So there is trouble in not only designing a theoretical design for it, but the protein must "pop" into the right 3-D shape so that it can process the molecule. This is something scientist are currently researching, and something the program I am working on will be able to figure out. Programming this is a matter of using multi-variable calculus and other calculations, which is not as hard as it sounds, I promise, it has just yet to be done.

So, if anyone gets any ideas off the above - go for it(just don't make any deadly viruses!). Whoever makes a program that can calculate all of the above things will essentially be able to become a billionaire very easily. I currently have a clear idea of how to build this program though I am swamped with school right now so it could be a couple years before I finish it. Effectively though, the program would not be hard to create, but I'm not going to tell you any technical details ;D. If anyone is interesting in working with me on this sometime in the future, I am always willing to work with sharp minds! I have a very developed framework of it so far. If I get some time off I may be able to finish it within the year, but that's kind of wishful thinking right now.

Damn, I lost a large post I wrote. I'll try to recreate some of it. Does your program use monte carlo approximations? How do you get your computing power, distributed computing?

Regarding some of your other comments.

First, I don't think a drug that maximized synaptic signaling would work, wouldn't that cause issues with neural nets and feedback loop type results?

You mention recombinant DNA technology and the possibility of expressing new proteins in humans. The problem I see is that we are not at the point knowledge wise where we can, not just code for a protein in every cell, but have a deep enough understanding to only code for certain types of cells- along with all the regulatory molecules and stabilization proteins needed. Maybe a select few like Craig Venter could have a shot at this, but I dont think we have a detailed enough understanding of the brain yet to use the genetic coding knowledge. I believe it would take the brain equivalent of the human genome project to accomplish this.

To clarify I think all you are saying is possible, just maybe not right now.

I have a background in biochem and some theoretical computer science (I've done limited coding, so I could understand your code but not write long sections), so if you ever wanted to brainstorm about your program I'd love to. My dad is a contract attorney so I'd gladly sign a non disclosure, as well as an agreement that nothing in the program or resulting from our talks is mine in any way shape or form. Just something to think about, sometimes a fresh perspective can help alot

The program would not need too much computing power for the basics of it, though at the higher levels it might. Building a small scale super computer isn't too difficult, nor time consuming, just requires a little bit of investment. For under 10 grand I could bridge multiple computers together and effectively get some computing power in the realm of 1000x more than most average desktop computers, which, should be overkill for for my purposes. I am working on a new form of data processing that in theory could greatly boost the efficiency of such by utilizing some golden ratios.


When I was talking about Synaptic signalling I wasn't talking about the maximizing them, but rather somehow modulating the systems that would make it so no signal was ever dropped or lost by accident. Our brains could easily be more efficient by modulating a couple of systems in them without directly effecting any of the neurotransmitters, but rather effecting the systems that keep the brain clean. Only theory right now though.

While we don't have the technology to insert new proteins in the human body in specific cells, we do certainly have the technology to program and create DNA strands that can be accepted into E. Coli bacteria which can then be produced to make a particular protein, or to make particular compounds. We currently do this in industry for Insulin, as well as some other chemicals, and we can certainly do it for other ones, given time to research.

There are a lot of things possible when assuming the limitation of our current technological state, as well as ways to progress further from that said state, if one takes the time to analyze it properly and imagine how things could move forward. A lot of people get under this impression that our technological advancement is slowing down, but it's simply not the case, not right now at least. There is so much in our immediate future to come. It's not even a matter of "making" these discoveries. Many of them have already been thought up and imagined, and to verify them and put them to use is merely a matter of investing time into them. If anything, thousands upon thousands of new discoveries have already been made in 'the future' and are simply currently being awaited to be made a reality. A lot of these ideas are open to the public, or can be easily come to the conclusion of. Any such motivated and resourceful enough person can come along and turn any of these ideas into a reality before another such individual and reap everything that comes with doing so. It's quite an interesting time for technology in my opinion.

The program would not need too much computing power for the basics of it, though at the higher levels it might. Building a small scale super computer isn't too difficult, nor time consuming, just requires a little bit of investment. For under 10 grand I could bridge multiple computers together and effectively get some computing power in the realm of 1000x more than most average desktop computers, which, should be overkill for for my purposes. I am working on a new form of data processing that in theory could greatly boost the efficiency of such by utilizing some golden ratios.


When I was talking about Synaptic signalling I wasn't talking about the maximizing them, but rather somehow modulating the systems that would make it so no signal was ever dropped or lost by accident. Our brains could easily be more efficient by modulating a couple of systems in them without directly effecting any of the neurotransmitters, but rather effecting the systems that keep the brain clean. Only theory right now though.

While we don't have the technology to insert new proteins in the human body in specific cells, we do certainly have the technology to program and create DNA strands that can be accepted into E. Coli bacteria which can then be produced to make a particular protein, or to make particular compounds. We currently do this in industry for Insulin, as well as some other chemicals, and we can certainly do it for other ones, given time to research.

There are a lot of things possible when assuming the limitation of our current technological state, as well as ways to progress further from that said state, if one takes the time to analyze it properly and imagine how things could move forward. A lot of people get under this impression that our technological advancement is slowing down, but it's simply not the case, not right now at least. There is so much in our immediate future to come. It's not even a matter of "making" these discoveries. Many of them have already been thought up and imagined, and to verify them and put them to use is merely a matter of investing time into them. If anything, thousands upon thousands of new discoveries have already been made in 'the future' and are simply currently being awaited to be made a reality. A lot of these ideas are open to the public, or can be easily come to the conclusion of. Any such motivated and resourceful enough person can come along and turn any of these ideas into a reality before another such individual and reap everything that comes with doing so. It's quite an interesting time for technology in my opinion.

This clarifies things alot thanks. The synaptic signaling modulation is what I was thinking was the only way to do it, I should have know a man with your intelligence meant.

The second point about research driving the ability to make certain proteins produce in certain cells will develop over time, I agree with you completely. I hope it's soon. Combining these techniques with an understanding of modulating synaptic signaling would produce very interesting results.

I want to say I do not doubt your program or that what you describe will happen in 20 years or less, I was more saying that your program will have difficulty producing viable results in the next 2-3. If you would like to talk more about this (here or over email) I would love too! This is fascinating.

The program theoretically, based on the design I have in mind would be based upon a hyper efficient and novel method of calculating results that I came up with myself. Once designed, such a program could make thousands of discoveries per day, if ran all day. I'm sure it sounds too good to be sure, but truthfully we all have it within us to access this level of creativity to imagine something and find a way to create an exact embodiment of the idea. We could be eons more technologically advanced than we are if everyone in the world employed this mode of thought.

See, what most people don't realize is that a lot of these research scientist researching all day in labs are far from "geniuses" - speaking of the word Genius, I believe most geniuses are self created, unlike popular belief; I certainly wasn't born this way, I worked hard to attain what I have. In fact most of them are there because the only path they could figure out was the path of getting through school and relying on somebody to employ them. There's no doubt there are many smart people in this crowd, many of which come out with new amazing discoveries, but the truly genius people are often busy doing other things. This is probably a lump overgeneralization but it is true to some extent.


When people who are deeply interested in a subject hear about teams and teams of researchers coming out with some amazing discovery or creation that took them years to figure out, it gets their hopes down. What they don't realize is a good majority of the time these teams of people are being employed and are not driven by that deep burning desire to discover and create. They are being paid to figure something out, so inevitably, that emotional drive that is responsible for rapid ground breaking discoveries is mostly absent.

I use this as an example to point out that if I wasn't deeply interested in these fields I certainly would not be spending my time on these things. It is also part of the reason a lot of my life is centered on making money through business, so in the near future I can fund my own personal research experiments and buy all the computers or equipment I would need. If I were to rely on getting a degree in the field, I would likely get employed somewhere and be unable to work on my goal. I'm still studying these fields in school and on off time for obvious reasons though.

The point I'm making is that through desire, belief, faith, intention, and most importantly hard work and persistence, we as humans are capable of things beyond our wildest imaginations. If not for the prior things I am not sure what I would be doing with my life. People need to be inspired more. If only people realized what they are capable of by themselves.... then maybe they would stop waiting for "Researchers" to discover the things that they so badly wish were discovered, and realize that they might could discover it on their own.

Edited by Siro, 08 November 2013 - 03:05 AM.

I'm not sure if a single drug alone could actually produce the NZT effect. However I did get obsessed with that idea for a few months after watching that movie and figured out how to replicate that effect for myself. Unfortunately I went too far in that direction and it caused a psychotic episode so I am focusing more on quantified-self type stuff to figure out how to achieve my goals. Honestly it's good to keep your IQ in a functional range that allows you to interact with other pepole because when you start being able to walk thru walls and levitating objects then you start questioning why you bothered incarnating in this particular reality in the first place, which I imagine would be rather counter to the goals of those here who wish to remain in physical form here for as long as possible.

Theoretically a single drug could produce the effect if it were complicated enough to act uniquely on multiple different locations, but then it would be too large to cross the BBB.... or if we can identify a root piece of neurological functioning and modify that. Truth is all of our brain-effecting drugs are incredibly primitive in their effects, very shallow in a certain way. We just know so little about the brain at its core.

Katimaya,

Your response intrigued me, primarily for my extreme interest in the Yogic Sciences and the potential mechanics of other occult related things. Was not expecting somebody to post about that on here, though, it is highly relevant in the concepts I am hinting at here. If you shoot me a PM maybe we can chat about this some.

It seems to me Siro. as though you are trying to regulate the hypothalamus and its pendulum (if you will) between two very well known states of consciousness. .almost a a form.of hyper-homeostasis. Or in effect bring the pendulum to a state..where we are now leaning, an object can indeed. Occupy 2 physical places at once..now obviously the hypothalamus does not have an actual pendulum. .but the clockwork effect it has on the ANS and CNS is very much so. Now creating a protein which in effect would have these two states of consciousness that have been proven to be directly affected by the hypo..operating simultaneously is wonderful.but.can be done simply with your original statement. That hard work determination and the quest for deeper knowledge is what brings man closer to his need for the unknown (ultimate) .making a protien or whatever... would be a horrible way to bring someone into a state in which has to be learned thruough discipline. And not taken for granted. .which is why these practices have been closely gaurded and only the ones who realy want to experince its effects will go the distance. Therefore making that individual worthy of its benefits. Now creating a pill to let every being whether he be worthy or not to exsist in this state would be catastrophic. .as katimaya said himself..he went to far andmhad a pshycotic breakdown. If it was not for his discipline that brought him to to this state in the first place.i ask you..would he have been able to realize he had gone to far and re evaluated his lifes discipline. Well now we have a pill
.you pop you pop you pop..bam the next day your in a psychotic state and do not understand the fundamentals of which brought you to this state..and like most drug addicts will perpetuate this situation with another pill the next day..bringing you yet further from the delicate balance we call "being human" or funny enough "human being"..

And to be frank..im really getting sick of the word "genius"... is being genius as a population being able to build a spacecraft that lets us begin to colonize and terraform other planets because we were to busy being genius to realize part of being genius is coexistence. And funny enough the fu damentals of this pill to bring us into hyper homeostasis is fundamentaly built around a peacfull coexistence between the body and mind within ourselves. So how.do we coexsist with nature when 99 percemt of the poluation cannot coexist within themselves ....with out a pill..

Edited by rolling thunder, 24 December 2013 - 07:36 PM.

So anyone have test some compound? Or I'm very curious about somebody has a result.

If you told me a drug like NZT-48 existed, I'm be super excited and want some right away. When referring to Yogic sciences and the occult, are you thinking of raising/ expanding your consciousness? If so, I'd would add that I get the impression intellect and consciousness are 2 rather different things altogether.

Edited by kingwithnocrown, 02 April 2014 - 01:41 PM.