11 replies to this topic

[experimenting]

Hear a lot about the necessity to take Vitamin K with D, but little about Vitamin A. From what I understand A inhibits D’s calcium uptake back down to safe levels and prevents the creation of defective proteins, in effect massively reducing the need for Vitamin K.

So perhaps it’s A, and not K we need? And A in what form? Anyone trying this, and in what ratio?

[Dorian Grey]

Most Vitamin-A supps I have seen are alarmingly high dose (10K+ IU).  I like a couple (OK a few) alcoholic drinks in the evening, & Vitamin-A & alcohol have been shown to be a bad mix. 

 

If you're going to start taking A, I'd seek out the lowest dose you can find (5000 IU is the lowest I've seen), and perhaps take it once or twice a week.  Vitamin-A is fat soluble, so you don't need it every day to maintain stable levels.  

 

The theory behind the balancing of A & D is interesting.  I wouldn't mega-dose either supp though.  

[experimenting]

Is beta carotene a better approach, so it’s near impossible to over do it?

Most Vitamin-A supps I have seen are alarmingly high dose (10K+ IU). I like a couple (OK a few) alcoholic drinks in the evening, & Vitamin-A & alcohol have been shown to be a bad mix.

If you're going to start taking A, I'd seek out the lowest dose you can find (5000 IU is the lowest I've seen), and perhaps take it once or twice a week. Vitamin-A is fat soluble, so you don't need it every day to maintain stable levels.

The theory behind the balancing of A & D is interesting. I wouldn't mega-dose either supp though.

Is beta carotene a better approach, so it’s near impossible to over do it?

[Dorian Grey]

I really don't know if beta carotene might be a better angle at maintaining Vitamin-A.  Perhaps a little of both?  Nothing against preformed Vitamin-A, except the dosages in many stand-alone supplements.  5000 IU a couple times a week shouldn't hurt.  Same with LOW DOSE beta carotene.  

[experimenting]

I really don't know if beta carotene might be a better angle at maintaining Vitamin-A. Perhaps a little of both? Nothing against preformed Vitamin-A, except the dosages in many stand-alone supplements. 5000 IU a couple times a week shouldn't hurt. Same with LOW DOSE beta carotene.

Why low dose? I started a 25000iu once daily. To my understanding the body only converts exactly what it needs to vitamin a, so the rest isn’t harmful. Thoughts?

I really don't know if beta carotene might be a better angle at maintaining Vitamin-A. Perhaps a little of both? Nothing against preformed Vitamin-A, except the dosages in many stand-alone supplements. 5000 IU a couple times a week shouldn't hurt. Same with LOW DOSE beta carotene.

Why low dose? I started a 25000iu once daily. To my understanding the body only converts exactly what it needs to vitamin a, so the rest isn’t harmful. Thoughts?

[pamojja]

So perhaps it’s A, and not K we need? And A in what form? Anyone trying this, and in what ratio?

 

I personally explored that by gradually increasing both over many years, while testing serum 25(OH)D3 and retinol as well as RBP (retinol binding protein) and aiming at the middle of the reverence range. Over time the ratio changed, so I assume it might actually be different for everyone too.

 

Is beta carotene a better approach, so it’s near impossible to over do it?

 

According to one study about 50% of females couldn't convert beta-carotene into proactive vitamin A very well. Since I already get plenty of it from a plant-based diet, I rather supplement the later.

 

Thereby found out that above 24.000 IU my infrequent psoriasis outbreaks ceased, and my craving for cod liver too (contains about 50.000 IU per can). After some time much less had the same effect. Wouldn't recommend this to anyone, unless tracking lab markers.

Edited by pamojja, 16 May 2018 - 09:51 PM.

[experimenting]

I personally explored that by gradually increasing both over many years, while testing serum 25(OH)D3 and retinol as well as RBP (retinol binding protein) and aiming at the middle of the reverence range. Over time the ratio changed, so I assume it might actually be different for everyone too.


According to one study about 50% of females couldn't convert beta-carotene into proactive vitamin A very well. Since I already get plenty of it from a plant-based diet, I rather supplement the later.

Thereby found out that above 24.000 IU my infrequent psoriasis outbreaks ceased, and my craving for cod liver too (contains about 50.000 IU per can). After some time much less had the same effect. Wouldn't recommend this to anyone, unless tracking lab markers.

Yeah, that’s a fierce dose.

At 25000iu beta carotene I find I don’t need vitamin K, which is good because that gives me some weird side effects. I first tried preformed and didn’t like it quite as much.

Can I just listen to my body and skip the K? If I take D alone, I get skin itch which hints at hypercalcemia but either A or K completely neutralize this effect. A has a very interesting effect on cognition too. Very possibly placebo but I find it makes me a bit less manic/arrogant; more willing to see nuances. Perhaps placebo?

[Hyperflux]

I've been using Vitamin A in retinol form (10,000 iu twice a week for an average of ~3000 iu daily) but I just recently added 3 grams of spirulina to my regime which contains 3750 iu in beta-carotene form. Is it still safe to take the retinol?

[experimenting]

Most Vitamin-A supps I have seen are alarmingly high dose (10K+ IU). I like a couple (OK a few) alcoholic drinks in the evening, & Vitamin-A & alcohol have been shown to be a bad mix.

If you're going to start taking A, I'd seek out the lowest dose you can find (5000 IU is the lowest I've seen), and perhaps take it once or twice a week. Vitamin-A is fat soluble, so you don't need it every day to maintain stable levels.

The theory behind the balancing of A & D is interesting. I wouldn't mega-dose either supp though.

Been doing 25k IU of beta carotene once every few days, what’s your opinion on this and how worried should I be about the alcohol interaction?

[Dorian Grey]

Mixing B-Carotene & alcohol may be unwise:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10357725

 

Alcohol, vitamin A, and beta-carotene: adverse interactions, including hepatotoxicity and carcinogenicity

 

"This narrowing of the therapeutic window for retinol and beta-carotene must be taken into account when formulating treatments aimed at correcting vitamin A deficiency, especially in drinking populations."

 

Vitamin-A, B-carotene and alcohol, not a very good mix!  

[baccheion]

If there isn't sufficient vitamin A, the body creates more vitamin-K-dependent proteins. When vitamin K2 MK-4 is taken with vitamin D3 (10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ MK-4), the RDA of vitamin A is more than enough.

Natural levels of vitamin D3 (<= 42 ng/mL) can be managed by magnesium.

Edited by baccheion, 01 June 2018 - 05:39 PM.

[experimenting]

Yep, tried retinol, didn’t like the competing with D effect.

Magnesium probably best port of call though really I need to reduce my D levels. It’s a bit of a steroid; honestly I find it addictive but in super doses that probably isn’t healthy.