12 replies to this topic

[ake]

I have ordered and tried Longevity Labs (LL) spermidine supplement, but I am starting to wonder whether it wouldn't be better and much cheaper to take a spoon of wheat germ with breakfast instead. Specifically, if I calculate correctly, the two pills of spermidine that LL recommend me to take daily appear to only contain the equivalent of 2 grams of wheat germ.

 

Longevity Labs state that the spermidine content of their supplement is 1.1-1.3 milligrams per gram of wheat germ extract and that the two pills correspond to 400 milligram of wheat germ extract. Using the upper number, this gives a spermidine content per serving of 0.4*1.3=0.52 milligram.

 

Wikipedia claims that wheat germ contains 243 milligrams of spermidine per kilogram. Working backwards, I will thus need (0.52/243)*1000=2.1 gram of wheat germ to get a similar amount of spermidine. I have not scaled it, but I doubt if 2 gram of wheat germ is more than a spoonful. 

 

Any comments you have would be welcome - is my calculation correct? And may there be other reasons why I should chip up ca 60 EUR per month for a fancy supplement when I can just take a spoonful of wheat germ with my morning cereals?

[Oakman]

Your theory sounds reasonable, and cheaper. I make brownies from fermented WG to get benefit from the WG and the fermentation of it, and also to encourage eating it, as plain WG is rather bland.

Edited by Oakman, 09 July 2019 - 01:56 PM.

[Rays]

I think there's 400 mg wheat germ extract in one capsule.

 

I measured a tablespoon of wheat germ:

8 gram on a really full tablespoon

5 gram on a 'flattened' tablespoon

 

 

[Justin BoBustinBananaFanaF]

You might want to try Natto. Wheat germ seems like it might have anti nutrients,etc. at least if you follow the Paleo way of thinking

[NickNick]

I got spermidine from LZR Labs, it says 700mg per serving. That would be over 2kg of wheat germ. I don't know what the recommended does is. 

Edited by NickNick, 24 January 2020 - 01:26 PM.

[Rays]

I got spermidine from LZR Labs, it says 700mg per serving. That would be over 2kg of wheat germ. I don't know what the recommended does is. 

 

Thanks for the tip. But the label says 700 mg of "Ultra-Spermidine Matrix". See picture below.

It looks like there's more in there than just spermidine, so no 700mg spermidine. It would be interesting to know how much spermidine is in the caps exactly.

 

 

 

 

[Rays]

Thanks for the tip. But the label says 700 mg of "Ultra-Spermidine Matrix". See picture below.

It looks like there's more in there than just spermidine, so no 700mg spermidine. It would be interesting to know how much spermidine is in the caps exactly.

 

 

I emailed them asking about the exact spermidine content. It's 1 mg.

This was their reply:

 

"

One serving yields 1mg spermidine.

Our matrix contains several extracts from natural sources that 1) contain high levels of spermidine and 2) act to support the autophagy or cell turnover promoted by spermidine and other senolytics.

Our goal with 1mg per capsule is to help people increase their daily Spermidine intake by ~15% without consuming excess calories to reach that level as maintaining a long term caloric surplus can accelerate aging drastically (exactly the opposite of what we're trying to do).

"

[Oakman]

Thanks for the tip. But the label says 700 mg of "Ultra-Spermidine Matrix". See picture below.

It looks like there's more in there than just spermidine, so no 700mg spermidine. It would be interesting to know how much spermidine is in the caps exactly.

 

 

 

 

 

That supplement is simply 'fermented wheat germ extract' or FWGE, which is very easy to make at home (wheat germ, active dry yeast, and a warm place for 30 hrs) in your kitchen, plus a couple healthful herbs. What I don't know is if fermenting WG increases or changes the spermidine content. Whatever the case, it's supposed to be very healthy to eat and potentially has anti-cancer properties. Seems to be more popular in Europe and expensive everywhere.

 

The problem with wheat germ is it is a flaky dry stuff, and not very palatable. Fermenting it turns it into a paste or soup of material that can be used in recipes, flavored with, say, chocolate, and used in other ways that are more pleasant tasting (in order to get its spermidine content). 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6213720/

 

"It should be noted that, in some of the included studies [31,32], the nutraceutical was not purchased from the manufacturing company, but instead produced in the laboratory through the use of Lactobacillus plantarum dy-1 on fresh wheat germ. Barisone et al. [32] described a different way of obtaining the fermented wheat germ extract by using Saccharomyces cerevisiae. They also compared the in vitro activity of FWGE with that of AVEMAR and concluded that the killing activity was equivalent [32]."

 

Better yet, if 700 mgs of FWGE gets you 1 mg of spermidine (thanks Rays), then making it yourself has to be one of the most cost-effective things possible if you want to get your spermidine! I normally make 1 or 2 CUPS of FWGE at a time. One cup = 236 grams.

Edited by Oakman, 24 January 2020 - 03:34 PM.

[orion22]

all i eat all day in fermented wheat germ bread made by myself and some meat ofc im overdosing on manganese sadly because of it but it is what it is 

Edited by orion22, 25 January 2020 - 11:04 AM.

[NickNick]

Thanks for the tip. But the label says 700 mg of "Ultra-Spermidine Matrix". See picture below.

It looks like there's more in there than just spermidine, so no 700mg spermidine. It would be interesting to know how much spermidine is in the caps exactly.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, that's very misleading and very expensive to boost my normal intake by 15%. 

Edited by NickNick, 27 January 2020 - 12:39 PM.

[NickNick]

I would like to find out what is a useful does, to see if wheat germ is the way forward, or a concentrated supplement. 

[NickNick]

Does anyone know the dose of spermidine required for a therapeutic dose? The amount required to produce calorie restricted diet mimicking effects.   

[TMNMK]

An interesting read. Down on page 15 (2.4) "Manufacturing Process" obviously vague on detail, but I think highlights some of the extract production challenges.

 

https://www.fda.gov/...138730/download