5 replies to this topic

[Fredrik]

Funny. The NAD 2.0 paper by Imai (2016) describes NMN as "the systemic signaling molecule" to replenish NAD+ in different tissues and this new paper by Treebak, Tramell and others (2019) instead designates NR as the systemic "transport form" of NAD+ precursors.

 

Semantics perhaps as NMN (what we know) needs to be converted to NR before entering the cell and NR (what we know) needs to be turned into NMN in the cytosol. 

 

From "Mitochondrial function in liver cells is resistant to perturbations in NAD+ salvage capacity" (2019):

 

"NMN and NR can both be delivered orally to increase NAD + levels in peripheral tissues (7, 8, 12, 24). Interestingly, NMN appears to be converted to NR for cellular uptake, indicating that NR is the “transport form” of these NAD + precursors (29)."

 

http://www.jbc.org/c...6.full.pdf html

 

"NAD World 2.0: the importance of the inter-tissue communication mediated by NAMPT/NAD+/SIRT1 in mammalian aging and longevity control" (2016)

 

"...the feedback mechanism between the hypothalamus and adipose tissue predicts the importance of NMN as a systemic signaling molecule that maintains biological robustness. Given that NAD+ levels decline with age in various organs and tissues in rodents and humans,43,​44,​45,​46,​47,​48 boosting NAD+ biosynthesis with NMN or nicotinamide riboside, another NAD+ intermediate that is converted to NMN, in key system-controlling organs and tissues could maintain biological robustness and delay the aging process in mammals."

 

https://www.nature.c...es/npjsba201618

 

 

 

Edited by Fredrik, 23 July 2019 - 07:59 AM.

[LawrenceW]

Fredrik,

 

"Semantics perhaps as NMN (what we know) needs to be converted to NR before entering the cell" was completely debunked with the publishing of this research paper in January 2019.

 

https://www.nature.c...2255-018-0009-4

 

 

"We have previously shown that NMN is absorbed from the gut into blood circulation within 2–3 min and transported into tissues within 10–30 min (refs 5,15). NMN is then immediately utilized for NAD+biosynthesis, significantly increasing NAD+ content in tissues over 60 min. This fast pharmacokinetics has recently been confirmed by using doubly labelled isotopic NMN (C13-D-NMN), showing its rapid absorption and conversion to NAD+ in peripheral tissues15. "

 

and 

 

"We have previously demonstrated that the transport of NMN from the gut to the circulation and then to tissues occurred within 10 min (ref. 15). However, the mechanism that mediates such minute-order transport of NMN has so far remained unknown. In this study, we demonstrate that the Slc12a8 gene encodes a novel NMN transporter in mammals."

 

and

 

"We further show that Slc12a8 specifically transports NMN, but not nicotinamide riboside, and that NMN transport depends on the presence of sodium ion."

 

 

 

Edited by LawrenceW, 24 July 2019 - 03:40 AM.

[Fredrik]

Thank you Lawrence for your citations. It´ll be interesting to see what roles the different precursor may have (if they have any significant effects in humans at all).

[Fredrik]

But exactly how NR, NAR and NMN works to increase NAD+ in cells is not fully known.

 

Is NMN just NR with a phosphate group or does it have some special function besides being extracellularly transformed into NR before entering the cell?

 

"...Accordingly, NMN was unable to generate NAD+ when equilibrative nucleoside transporters (ENTs) where pharmacologically blocked16,17, indicating that NMN extracellular dephosphorylation is not a side reaction occurring concomitant with NMN direct transport but is the exclusive pathway for utilization of extracellular NMN in NAD+synthesis."

 

https://www.nature.c.../ncomms13103#s1

 

And the newly minted "NMN-transporter" Slc12a8 is disputed (by scientists working for Chromadex. Of course):

"Despite genetic, pharmacological and kinetic evidence validated by a quantitative assay showing that nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) is dephosphorylated to nicotinamide riboside before cellular internalization1, solute carrier family 12 member 8 (Slc12a8), which is widely expressed and annotated as a Na+/K+ Cl− transporter, has been nominated to be an NMN transporter2. The analytical methods, transport data and interpretation underlying this assignment are not sound and do not support transport of NMN by Slc12a8.

The article by Grozio et al. reports that Slc12a8, which was previously annotated as an Na+/K+ Cl− transporter, is actually a nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) transporter2.

This would be important if evidence were to support such an identification. However, the authors do not provide such evidence. They used a Hypercarb column to separate acid-extracted metabolites from primary hepatocytes treated with 100 μM NMN in a time course of 0 s, 15 s, 1 min, 5 min, 15 min and 30 min. Problematically, they used one-dimensional liquid chromatography without mass spectrometry to quantify this low-abundance metabolite. The methods cited show an NAD+chromatogram illustrating an FK866-depressed peak but no NMN chromatogram; they also acknowledge that the material coming off the column at the NAD+ retention time contained other analytes when subjected to mass spectrometry3,4. The new Fig. 1 in the response by Grozio et al. does not address this problem. It shows that NMN (m/z = 335 Da) can be detected in a liver extract but it does not establish the purity of the material in the 22-min high-performance liquid chromatography peak whose area is used for quantification—innumerable other metabolites of different m/z ratios are present in this peak, as the authors have previously acknowledged3,4. The new Fig. 2 in the response by Grozio et al. makes matters worse because they did not analyse what an NMN standard looks like in the hepatocyte extract and decided to quantify a peak that has inexplicably drifted from a 22-min retention time to a 19-min retention time.

When one considers that there is approximately 500 times more NAD+than NMN in liver samples5 and that the Grozio et al. do not quantify the 0-s samples, the potential of this liquid chromatography method to produce a signal rather than simply report background is deeply undermined. In fact, Grozio et al. report that incubation of cells with 100 μM NMN—a concentration orders of magnitude higher than cellular NMN6—does not produce a time-dependent increase in intracellular NMN (Fig. 1d; the NMN concentration drops from 9–10 nmol mg−1 to <6 nmol mg−1 in 30 min)1.

Moreover, the assay for the internalization of 3H-NMN (incubation of 3H-NMN with cells followed by centrifugation through oil) is merely an assay for cell association2.

Previous work on FK866-resistant NMN incorporation showed quantitative dependence on nicotinamide riboside kinase 1, quantitative extracellular conversion of NMN to nicotinamide riboside and intracellular detection of nicotinamide riboside before formation of intracellular NMN1.

Moreover, it has been demonstrated that modification of the phosphate in extracellularly applied NMN is required to activate the widely expressed sterile alpha and TIR motif-containing protein 1 (SARM1) to induce an NMN-dependent cell death pathway because NMN itself is not transported7.

Given the wide expression of Slc12a8, the lack of an analytically sound liquid chromatography–mass spectrometry assay for NMN or an analytically sound transport assay2 and the extensive earlier work that cannot be explained by NMN transport1,8,9,10,11,12, it would be prudent to continue to consider that Slc12a8 encodes a salt transporter and not a transporter of NMN."

https://www.nature.c...2255-019-0085-0

 

 

Edited by Fredrik, 10 August 2019 - 09:29 PM.

[MikeDC]

Check out the new topic I posted. NR and NAR are transported between cells. Some cells make NR and NAR and secrets them out of cells. Cells who can’t recycle NAD+ from NAM have to rely on this NR and NAR to survive. NAM can’t prevent liver damage from high fat diets when NRK1 is KOed.

NR and NAR are inter cellular precursors, NMN is not.

[Kentavr]

LawrenceW,

How are your NMN experiments going?