100 replies to this topic

[experimenting]

Free T of 49. Afternoon measurement and I was very hungover, that may be affecting it.

Should I be considering TRT?

I have had issues with no morning erection and such, low libido etc, but also a host of other symptoms. Chronic fatigue, memory issues, bunch of stuff. Not sure if low T is the root cause of all this or an after effect of something else.

Thanks.

[Rocket]

Trt is for LIFE and your nuts will shrink. Find out what your system is doing! Fsh and lh? Right now you don't know if its your testicles or your brain lowering things! What's your estrogen? With Trt you will have a ball and chain around your life and be dependent on having your medication on hand. With trt you will developed high red blood cell counts and that's now good unless you donate to the red cross every 8 weeks. Plus trt also raises estrogen which can be counterproductive to normalizing your T. Also if you are a normal man and your psa rises naturally with age the docs will want to biopsy your prostate when that happens. There are guys that wish they had a 300 reading without exogenous T.

Go to private md labs and order your own tests. Post when they are back.

Edited by Rocket, 08 February 2020 - 01:21 AM.

[experimenting]

Trt is for LIFE and your nuts will shrink. Find out what your system is doing! Fsh and lh? Right now you don't know if its your testicles or your brain lowering things! What's your estrogen? With Trt you will have a ball and chain around your life and be dependent on having your medication on hand. With trt you will developed high red blood cell counts and that's now good unless you donate to the red cross every 8 weeks. Plus trt also raises estrogen which can be counterproductive to normalizing your T. Also if you are a normal man and your psa rises naturally with age the docs will want to biopsy your prostate when that happens. There are guys that wish they had a 300 reading without exogenous T.

Go to private md labs and order your own tests. Post when they are back.

Yeah, this really isn’t something I want to dive into without serious research first. Just got pretty depressed about it if I’m honest. I will report back.

[TheFountain]

Bummer.

 

My last TT was 950

[experimenting]

Bummer.

My last TT was 950

Jesus. How? What’s your stack?

[Gerald W. Gaston]

I also have the opposite problem.

 

I'm 52 and last T test was: 1536

 

It's been between 1360 - 1681 since I've started testing it.

 

Any change in my PSA and my PCP freaks and sends me to see my Urologist.

 

Luckily last PSA was back down to my "normal".. it had gotten up to 1.3 which is not bad but the velocity was the issue. tested 2 weeks later at 1.0 and now 0.6 once again.

 

EDIT: Meant to add that I have a few gym friends that are on TRT (I'm not counting the ones on large cycles, but actually TRT) and they all seem to be doing well. One specifically has made great gains over the years. Enough to make me ask him if he was "supplementing" outside of his prescription. He told me no, and that his doctor actually lowered his prescribed dosage back down shortly after bumping up last year due to a decrease in libido on the higher dose.

 

 

Edited by gwgaston, 10 February 2020 - 02:08 AM.

[TheFountain]

Jesus. How? What’s your stack?

 

Well, I was in ketosis I believe. As far as supplements go, the ones that might've effected me could have been Pomegranate juice, Horny Goat weed, Zinc etc. 

 

Just a guess. 

Edited by TheFountain, 10 February 2020 - 04:21 AM.

[Keizo]

Get another test, do it in the morning/early AM. Anyway below 15 nmol/L (like <400) is where the more generous private doctors here in Sweden allegedly would start to consider investigation. 305 I think is below or almost below most guidelines definition of normal levels. Still close enough to the 400's which are pretty healthy I hear.

 

[experimenting]

Man, those of you claiming high levels are a problem...imagine realizing you’re just less of a man than normal people.

Always struggled with libido, body comp, mood. Getting tired of it, and getting depressed as a result.

I’m conducting a host of other tests, but it’s possible low T is causing my widespread pain, cognitive issues, and of course the libido and psych issues. We’ll see.

[experimenting]

I’m also just 30 years old...

[Gerald W. Gaston]

So far I've only experiences the benefits. But I know that they can come at a high cost. High T runs on my paternal side. My dad has it and so do my sons (though neither my dad's levels nor my son's are near mine - but they are not into the same life style (training, diet ,etc) as I am.

 

I hardly ever get sick. I have no libido issues, no pains, mood swings, etc. And I slept on average of 4hrs a night.

 

But my dad of 81 was diagnosed about 1.5 years ago now with advanced PCa. His PSA was 4000! They just knew it had metastasized but a full scan said other-wise. His prostate was just so large that it pressed into his colon (that's how they found it as his only complaint was pain with bowel movements - no issues urinating) . He went through ADT and 39 radiation treatments and his PSA so far is staying 0. What's wild is he told me even on ADT he had erections (TMI I know but I was surprised that ADT didn't knock it in the dirt).

[adamh]

Just a thought but have any of you considering hrt thought about using herbs instead? Horny goat weed was mentioned, and zinc. Also pine pollen is very good for that. They don't actually raise test levels they, the herbs anyway, contain phytoandrogens which have a similar effect on humans as testosterone yet since they are not identical the body does not see them as a higher test level and does not shut down endogenous production as is the case with exogenous test or anabolic steriods. This is what I've heard. 

 

https://morningsteel...n-testosterone/

 

I've been using pine pollen and it seems to work, I can feel the difference. There are lots of places to get it. Another one that is touted is tribulus terrrestris which I just started on. Its worth looking into and a lot cheaper than the doctor

[Rocket]

So far I've only experiences the benefits. But I know that they can come at a high cost. High T runs on my paternal side. My dad has it and so do my sons (though neither my dad's levels nor my son's are near mine - but they are not into the same life style (training, diet ,etc) as I am.

I hardly ever get sick. I have no libido issues, no pains, mood swings, etc. And I slept on average of 4hrs a night.

But my dad of 81 was diagnosed about 1.5 years ago now with advanced PCa. His PSA was 4000! They just knew it had metastasized but a full scan said other-wise. His prostate was just so large that it pressed into his colon (that's how they found it as his only complaint was pain with bowel movements - no issues urinating) . He went through ADT and 39 radiation treatments and his PSA so far is staying 0. What's wild is he told me even on ADT he had erections (TMI I know but I was surprised that ADT didn't knock it in the dirt).

Glad your dad is fine, but ADT in a younger person is akin to a sex change and HHORRIBLE effects on health!

[TheFountain]

Man, those of you claiming high levels are a problem...imagine realizing you’re just less of a man than normal people.

 

No, that's what my blood test result was. 

[Believer]

I've taken anywhere from low to extremely large dosages of steroids including testosterone nonstop for a year and now I am considering lowering my testosterone.

I've found out I feel better when my testosterone is on the low side

[gamesguru]

We made a thread specifically for that:

Natural Testosterone Boosters - LongeCity Thread

 

Long story short:

• ginger,
• intense exercises (squat/deadlift),
• a high S/PU fat diet,
• and perhaps ginkgo.

For those merely "deficient" and not looking for an additional boost "above baseline"... zinc, vitamin D, and tribulus may also be beneficial.

[experimenting]

We made a thread specifically for that:
Natural Testosterone Boosters - LongeCity Thread

Long story short:

• ginger,
• intense exercises (squat/deadlift),
• a high S/PU fat diet,
• and perhaps ginkgo.

For those merely "deficient" and not looking for an additional boost "above baseline"... zinc, vitamin D, and tribulus may also be beneficial.

This was after 10kiu d3 and associated k2. Getting pretty depressed.

[gamesguru]

This was after 10kiu d3 and associated k2. Getting pretty depressed.

 

So?  I would just drink more milk or something, it's all synthetic Vitamin D3 anyway

 

And try the remaining suggestions, in combination, for a longer period, with a better attitude.  Of course if you don't try anything AND p*ss about it, nothings going to happen..

[experimenting]

So? I would just drink more milk or something, it's all synthetic Vitamin D3 anyway

And try the remaining suggestions, in combination, for a longer period, with a better attitude. Of course if you don't try anything AND p*ss about it, nothings going to happen..

I will try and I am trying. But it sucks. Zero morning wood, always had a small flaccid member, etc etc.

D3 does do something for me, as will other random sips, but getting these to work without side effects just hasn’t lined up for me. At least the fact that something does something indicates my problem might not be primary hypogonadism? Eg it is possible to raise my test and libido without T itself.

[experimenting]

My LH came in at 21 mIU/ml
FSH 3.64 mIU/mL

The LH looks super high. Wonder what’s going on here. Would note was taking high dose vitamin K which inhibits 5ar, not sure if that has any meaning here.

[experimenting]

Tested again, 343.
FSH LH shbg e2 all normal.

Looks like frank hypogonadism.

[Rocket]

Well, you are at the lower end of normal levels. TRT is for life, will cause infertility, and you will be forever tied to your medicine and you can say goodbye to your testicles. I wouldn't do it. Your testicles are not shutdown but they will be once you start TRT. Your level went up over 10% between tests. I would be waiting and watching while looking for anything that might explain the lowish levels. Do you know what your baseline was before this?

[experimenting]

Well, you are at the lower end of normal levels. TRT is for life, will cause infertility, and you will be forever tied to your medicine and you can say goodbye to your testicles. I wouldn't do it. Your testicles are not shutdown but they will be once you start TRT. Your level went up over 10% between tests. I would be waiting and watching while looking for anything that might explain the lowish levels. Do you know what your baseline was before this?

Before supplementation? No idea. Like I said, thrown everything at the problem but I have no libido, I can’t put on muscle, etc etc. Having never felt “good” literally ever, I feel that I am running out of options. I’ve always felt as if I’m hiding a secret, I’m not a man, etc etc. I just want to reiterate-I’ve always felt something is “off”. No libido, no arousal, no competitive drive.

Why such a dim view of TRT? My understanding is that for those with frank hypogonadism which I’ve tested at, it can be hugely effective. Research I’ve done doesn’t conclude it makes you infertile etc, nor does it shutdown natural production if used sparingly (ie not aiming for bodybuilder levels).

Also, if those things are a concern, maybe try something like Clomid?

[experimenting]

Well, you are at the lower end of normal levels. TRT is for life, will cause infertility, and you will be forever tied to your medicine and you can say goodbye to your testicles. I wouldn't do it. Your testicles are not shutdown but they will be once you start TRT. Your level went up over 10% between tests. I would be waiting and watching while looking for anything that might explain the lowish levels. Do you know what your baseline was before this?

I’m also 30. I have the levels of a 75 year old...

Are there risks to a short term TRT trial at least?

[experimenting]

I have also dealt with lifelong gyno. Soft muscles, you name it.

[Daniel Cooper]

Is there anything known to increase free testosterone versus trying to increase total testosterone?  Maybe work that angle.

 

 

 

[Rocket]

I’m also 30. I have the levels of a 75 year old...

Are there risks to a short term TRT trial at least?

Any TRT at all will kill (metaphorically) a mans testicles. It is for LIFE once you start down that road. You can't do a trial and then stop.

I've played with hormones for anabolic reasons and testosterone is no joke. The op has functioning testicles that have not failed but are not producing ideal levels of T. I would try a restart method that bodybuilders use before giving up on not making himself dependent for life on medicine. It is for life once you go down that road.

Many men do need TRT but a level near 350 gives hope that things can turn around.

I would be curious to see if clomid would help him any.

There could be something going on with the ops health or environment causing this. I would exhaust the possibilities of remaining natural.

Also many men with normal T also have some gyno. Gyno is caused also by heredity and genes, and also caused by TRT. Bodybuilders with pre-existing gyno have to be extra cautious when on a cycle.

Edited by Rocket, 19 February 2020 - 12:51 AM.

[experimenting]

Any TRT at all will kill (metaphorically) a mans testicles. It is for LIFE once you start down that road. You can't do a trial and then stop.

I've played with hormones for anabolic reasons and testosterone is no joke. The op has functioning testicles that have not failed but are not producing ideal levels of T. I would try a restart method that bodybuilders use before giving up on not making himself dependent for life on medicine. It is for life once you go down that road.

Many men do need TRT but a level near 350 gives hope that things can turn around.

I would be curious to see if clomid would help him any.

There could be something going on with the ops health or environment causing this. I would exhaust the possibilities of remaining natural.

Also many men with normal T also have some gyno. Gyno is caused also by heredity and genes, and also caused by TRT. Bodybuilders with pre-existing gyno have to be extra cautious when on a cycle.

Clomid is a horrible drug.

[Daniel Cooper]

Any TRT at all will kill (metaphorically) a mans testicles. It is for LIFE once you start down that road. You can't do a trial and then stop.

I've played with hormones for anabolic reasons and testosterone is no joke. The op has functioning testicles that have not failed but are not producing ideal levels of T. I would try a restart method that bodybuilders use before giving up on not making himself dependent for life on medicine. It is for life once you go down that road.

Many men do need TRT but a level near 350 gives hope that things can turn around.

I would be curious to see if clomid would help him any.

There could be something going on with the ops health or environment causing this. I would exhaust the possibilities of remaining natural.

Also many men with normal T also have some gyno. Gyno is caused also by heredity and genes, and also caused by TRT. Bodybuilders with pre-existing gyno have to be extra cautious when on a cycle.

 

 

Is clomid what body builders do for a restart?  What's the protocol? Is it for life or is it something you can use then jump off of once things are normal again?

[experimenting]

Is clomid what body builders do for a restart? What's the protocol? Is it for life or is it something you can use then jump off of once things are normal again?

Yes exactly, it’s a SERM, messed up your estrogen receptors, some people use it for restarts.

I’m going to give TRT a try, I got a prescription. How much do I risk with an 8-week trial anyway.