53 replies to this topic

[FunSponge]

I have an undiagnosed toxic brain injury from an addiction to huffing leaded gasoline when I was 15, Iv spent a year using Emeramide to chelate theoretical lead from the brain but I'm still not cured, still suffering from madness, an altered mental state like I'm stuck in a very disturbing petrol high that that never ends, Iv found medical articles that state in the case of chronic huffing it's the remaining lead that causes this condition, I'd read two case study's of people also suffering from an altered mental state after getting lead poisoning from drinking moonshine who had it reversed with chelation so why after a full year of chelation am I not yet fully cured?, I started dihexa again yesterday, maybe this is been caused due to the meylin sheath been eradicated by the toluene present in gasoline, does dihexa also repair meylin?, what benefits should dihexa provide?, what else can I possibly do to fix whats wrong with me?, already have a good diet and exercise. 

I'm at a loss, fighting everyday to get better unable to live any sort of a normal life with this condition, Iv been suffering from all this for 28 years now and I deserve a break, there's no sense continuing on in life if I what I have is truly incurable.

Edited by FunSponge, 13 February 2020 - 11:07 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

If it is a demeylination problem, I would look at what MS patients are doing to help their condition.  Not the treatments oriented around mitigating the autoimmune issues, but treatments aimed at restoring meylin. High fat diets, fish oil, "Lorenzo's Oil", etc.
 
This may be of interest as well - Study shows promise in repairing damaged myelin

 

 

[FunSponge]

I know lion's mane repairs meylin but does dihexa?

[kurdishfella]

If it is a demeylination problem, I would look at what MS patients are doing to help their condition.  Not the treatments oriented around mitigating the autoimmune issues, but treatments aimed at restoring meylin. High fat diets, fish oil, "Lorenzo's Oil", etc.
 
This may be of interest as well - Study shows promise in repairing damaged myelin

Isn't there like a rate limiting step to myelin or bdnf,ngf etc? Like there is with serotonin and dopamine. If a person has low level of enzymes that convert or produce the proteins that make myelin wouldn't diets be useless in those cases?

[Daniel Cooper]

Isn't there like a rate limiting step to myelin or bdnf,ngf etc? Like there is with serotonin and dopamine. If a person has low level of enzymes that convert or produce the proteins that make myelin wouldn't diets be useless in those cases?

 

I believe that may be the case, but if he suffered some acute damage in the past due to his drug usage, we don't know that he is rate limited by the enzyme.  Maybe he is, maybe he's not.  Providing the basic building blocks for myelin is very low risk, and would be a good adjunct to anything that would upregulate myelin production.

[FunSponge]

Can anyone answer if dihexa repairs meylin?, if not I'll just order lions Mane which I thought would be pointless if I'm using dihexa, it's day two after my first dihexa dose and I feel a reduction in the madness feel almost at peace again, it's possible the last dihexa I had was bogus which would be why I experienced no benefits, is it possible to take two 30mg doses in one week or is that dangerous?

[Daniel Cooper]

Can anyone answer if dihexa repairs meylin?, if not I'll just order lions Mane which I thought would be pointless if I'm using dihexa, it's day two after my first dihexa dose and I feel a reduction in the madness feel almost at peace again, it's possible the last dihexa I had was bogus which would be why I experienced no benefits, is it possible to take two 30mg doses in one week or is that dangerous?

 
I can only tell you there is a decent chance that it should increase myelination.  Overexpression of BDNF increases myelination, we've studies that show that.  Dihexa is more effective than BDNF at growing new brain tissue and acts as a sort of agonist for the receptor BDNF binds to. Therefore dihexa should probably increase myelination.  That said, I couldn't find a study on dihexa that measured myelination directly.  

 
Seems logical and worth a try if that is your underlying problem.  I would at the same time supplement the basic building blocks of myelin in order to assure you're not rate limited further down the chain.
 
BDNF overexpression produces a long-term increase in myelin formation in the peripheral nervous system.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 13 February 2020 - 07:21 PM.

[FunSponge]

I can only tell you there is a decent chance that it should increase myelination. Overexpression of BDNF increases myelination, we've studies that show that. Dihexa is more effective than BDNF at growing new brain tissue and acts as a sort of agonist for the receptor BDNF binds to. Therefore dihexa should probably increase myelination. That said, I couldn't find a study on dihexa that measured myelination directly.

Seems logical and worth a try if that is your underlying problem. I would at the same time supplement the basic building blocks of myelin in order to assure you're not rate limited further down the chain.

BDNF overexpression produces a long-term increase in myelin formation in the peripheral nervous system.

[FunSponge]

Thanks Daniel, I don't have a clue what my underlining issue is other then I know toluene destroys meylin, no way of knowing what other damage as occurred, hopefully dihexa can undo all the damage and if not there's irisb.

[FunSponge]

Can you take two dihexa doses in a week or is that dangerous?

[Mr Matsubayashi]

Was the petrol leaded where you live, 13 years ago?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4332342/

 

"Long-term use of petrol is associated with changes in the brain as well as neurobehavioral changes that include irritability, emotional lability, impaired memory, poor concentration, slurred speech, decreased speed of talking, hearing loss, peripheral neuropathy, headache, cerebellar signs, motor impairment, parkinsonism, and apathy. White matter changes on magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) have been associated with lower intelligence quotient (IQ). Verbal IQ is more impaired compared to performance IQ.16 With regard to memory, working memory as well as executive functioning, including memory retrieval, is impaired significantly."

 

Are any of these symptoms relateable? 

 

I would focus on global brain health. This includes exercising, meditation, eating healthy. I would start to include lots of greens and vegetables in my diet, learning how to make veggies delicious is a skill worth having. Near where I live there is a vegan yoga and meditation centre that would be an ideal place start. Don't let me discourage you from experimenting with dubious compounds but in my experience getting gains (like at the gym) isn't just about taking steroids, permanent changes in the brain can take years to manifest and require consistent effort / lifestyle changes. I can tell this issue is causing you stress, I recommend speaking with a councillor as they might be able to help you with this process. Not everyone gets dealt the same hand in life, some of us need to work harder but its worth it in the end. 

 

If you do want to take a supplement, try lutein 20mg zeaxanthin 5mg combo daily. These are safe, cheap, carotenoids that have evidence of integration into mylin. They are potent antioxidants with evidence of improve cognition in young and old otherwise healthy people. I wouldn't exceed more than 1 tablet a day due to a case report of a woman forming lutein crystals in her eyes. This resolved upon cessation of supplementation. 

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 14 February 2020 - 12:37 PM.

[FunSponge]

Hey Mr.Matsubayashi.

Yes the petrol was leaded it was only banned two years after I quit.

I can relate to all those symptoms, what's not listed is the psychiatric hell I have endured, no amount of healthy living as had any effect, I worked out every second day for years which did nothing for the severe depression, one study I read says with non leaded petrol the brain can make a full recovery after 15 years but with leaded the damage is permanent, it's been 28 years with no improvement so it must be lead, I always went for leaded at the gas station thinking it was the good stuff, Iv spent the past year taking Emeramide to chelate the lead from my brain and now I'm using dihexa to speed up the repair process, will also looking into getting isrib as well.

I have to say since using Emeramide my major depressive disorder is gone, I'm feeling much better these days but the altered mental state and psychosis although improved are still present so these could be the result of the damage caused by the lead so hopefully dihexa can repair that damage and I can fully heal and get my life back.

[FunSponge]

Your sure it's safe to take daily?, Iv been doing it but seems very extreme.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

I think so. I've been doing it on / off for a while and have noticed improved memory specifically while taking it. Its most often taken for eye health but has other perks, such as filtering UV light and improving vision. You might get most of the perks with every other day supplementation, I haven't put too much rigor into experimenting. 

 

Case report of woman developing small lutein crystals in her eyes. Note she was also smashing kale/spinach/avo at the same time which are very rich in lutein. Also note it resolved after not supplementing. I'm plant based myself and haven't noticed any issues or negative sides of any kind while taking it. It is one of the more expensive things I take regularly, I guess it comes down to individual economics. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5906391/

 

Another thing with a high safety profile, benefits for cognition is sulforaphane from broccoli sprouts. For me consumption of whole broccoli sprouts at a therapeutic dose about 40g / day had remarkable effects on anxiety. I don't know if anything i'm suggesting will be of help to your situation specifically but they won't hurt. I'm personally nervous about taking things without long term human medical studies, dubious purity assays from shady online vendors. 

 

[gamesguru]

The first question to ask is whether leaded gasoline causes de-myelination?

 

Or what role lead plays at all.  I suspect the petrol may be as important as the lead here.  People have absorbed more lead and displayed less symptoms.  Consider this case report in India, a 10 year old presenting with dramatic ADHD and aggressive symptoms, but very little lead in his system[1].

 

It appears the child either became dependent, or was self-medicating because the petrol did reduce his ADHD.  But self-medicating with petrol?  Probably not the best idea.  I would favor the benzo and carbamazepine approach which the doctors instead prescribed him.. still terrible, but almost certainly the lesser of two evils.

 

Other strange effects observed in petrol-treated mice?  Piloerection and cannibalism[1], yeah stay away kids.

 

In two reviews[1] [2], toluene, diethyl ether and other petrol-based inhalants are likened to alcohol, a CNS depressant with membrane depolarizing and amnesic effects, abuse of which often leads to adverse (though partly reversible) morphology of the fore- and mid-brains.  But with such an uncommon and poorly researched drug as inhalants, keep in mind there is always more than meets the eye.  Research is limited, and the truth is anyone's best guess.

 

The recovery process will be long and involved, with commitments to many lifestyle changes.  Abstinence will always be at its core.

 

We can do some more digging and research, but i would start meanwhile today with a common sense stack and see what sort of recovery if any that elicits.

Edited by gamesguru, 29 February 2020 - 03:56 PM.

[FunSponge]

Gasoline contains toluene which obliterates meylin, even before the gasoline I was huffing lighter fluid as well, that probably also contains toluene.

My earliest memory of having severe depression and my whole life turning to shit was while I was heavily abusing lighter fluid.

Iv probably wasted a year of my life and thousands on chelation when I should have been on dihexa this whole time, if only I hadn't been scammed by nootropic source and knew what real dihexa can do I would have saved my self from an awful amount of hell and suffering.
Then again it's been three decades since exposure so if lead wasn't there I should have seen some improvement, after 30 years the brain should have repaired itself by now.

Dihexa is a god damn miracle drug, I'm a little less crazy with every passing day, finally feeling good again, I wonder is this what's normal for everyone else.

Edited by FunSponge, 29 February 2020 - 04:17 PM.

[gamesguru]

ok, i glossed a few studies and i see what you're talking about.  Is there proof that it destroys myelin and leaves the axon intact though?

 

Because if it destroying the entire axon along with the myelin, a different healing strategy would apply.  Loss of myelin, to a degree, is considered a mild inflammatory disease; beyond that point entire axons and nerve cells begin dying and we label it full-on neurodegenerative.

 

GDNF may be relevant as the glial support really helps rebuild[1] and clean up damaged synapses.  Supposedly royal jelly can boost GDNF [1][2][3], but i haven't given it much effort

 

I think once you get your benefits out of dihexa or it starts to have chemical side effects, you can transition to less powerful, natural "brain repair" agents and enjoy the remainder of the recovery

[korpesh]

Hey Man, sorry you are going through that for so long. I have no medical background, so am only suggesting from personal use, but you might also want to check out "ergoloid mesylates." I have been taking a very low dose for about three months now, and have found it to be one of the best brain supplements I've ever taken. Better memory, better mood, and better sleep. I think it supposedly increases oxygen to your brain, but again, I don't really know its mechanisms of action. The company I order it from is called HyPro from Profound Pharmaceuticals. Hope you get some improvement!

[gamesguru]

"ergoloid mesylates."  HyPro from Profound Pharmaceuticals. Hope you get some improvement!

 

the compound in question is none other than Hydergine, a compound related to the blotter acid of the 1960s.  There is some disputed risk of cardiac fibrosis with sustained hydergine use.

 

overall hydergine remains an incredibly promising, though hugely controversial method of treating mental decline.  May reversibly inhibit MAO[1] and increase DA/NT[2].  I would like to see the OP's effects to it, but it's hard to get your hands on

 

quoted from the second study,

Hydergine... dopamine and serotonin receptors... consistent with antagonistic properties at postsynaptic alpha 1- and presynaptic alpha 2-adrenoceptors... mixed agonist/antagonist properties at postsynaptic D1 receptors mediating stimulation of adenylate cyclase, and at pre- and postsynaptic D2 receptors mediating inhibition of evoked dopamine and acetylcholine release in the rat striatum, respectively.

Hydergine had also mixed agonist/antagonist properties at the serotonin-sensitive adenylate cyclase in the rat hippocampus and the presynaptic serotonin autoreceptors present on nerve terminals in the rat cortex. Based on these in vitro data, it is suggested that Hydergine influences central monoaminergic systems in a dualistic manner... Thus, Hydergine might be able to counteract and prevent disturbances in the interplay between monoaminergic and other transmitter systems in the central nervous system... beneficial effects in senile mental impairment.

 

 

a brief summary of effects from a 1977 article,

Hydergine is an ergoloid mesylate (derived from rye) and it has become one of the world's most useful and popular ‘smart drugs’.

 

It is known to have all the following effects: increase blood supply to the brain, increase oxygen delivered to the brain, enhance metabolism of brain cells, protect the brain from insufficient oxygen supply, slow the deposit of the age pigment lipofuscin in the brain, prevent free radical damage to brain cells, and increase intelligence, memory, learning and recall.

[korpesh]

Gamesguru... just curious, as I have been taking it for a few months now, has there ever been any indication on how long it would take for the cardiac fibrosis to develop? I'm taking a very low dose, but maybe I should be taking periodic breaks from it. Haha

[gamesguru]

afaik, it's a relatively quick thing within a few years and it can be largely reversed too[1][2], which is counter-intuitive at least for me.

 

if it's a medicine you don't always need, one you can take breaks from without shocking your body.. that can sometimes be fine

[korpesh]

Thanks for the information. Yeah, it's definitely not something I absolutely need, so will probably start working some breaks into the protocol. Thanks again!

[gamesguru]

Thanks for the information. Yeah, it's definitely not something I absolutely need, so will probably start working some breaks into the protocol. Thanks again!

 

was it easy to get prescribed hydergine in the USA?

[korpesh]

It actually wasn't prescribed for me. I just buy it through a company called International Anti-Aging Systems, which I believe is out of the UK. Not as cheap as if it was prescribed, and takes a week or two to get to the US, but they seem to have quality products. https://www.antiagin...uct/549-hypro3-

[Daniel Cooper]

BTW - the OP is to be congratulated on having the willpower and discipline to come back after getting to the point of huffing gasoline.  A lot of people in that situation just spiral in and crash.   

 

 

 

 

[FunSponge]

Thanks Daniel but the OP still hasn't recovered after 10 week's of 30mg Dihexa, recently found out it has very low bio availability so you need very high doses for it to work so today I took 500mg, I'm still completely fucked in the head and ready to eat a bullet.

Someone's telling me about a compound called NA - FGL that supposedly can fix me but I can't find any info on it online.

[Rorororo]

https://books.google...epage&q&f=false

 

Page 230 is what you want on meylin repair.

 

 

Also try 7,8 DHF from a trusted source:

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/29029315/

 

&

 

https://www.acs.org/...oxyflavone.html

 

 

I would also drop the dihexa and use 7,8 DHF soley. 

Edited by Rorororo, 23 May 2020 - 10:57 PM.

[Rorororo]

Thanks Daniel but the OP still hasn't recovered after 10 week's of 30mg Dihexa, recently found out it has very low bio availability so you need very high doses for it to work so today I took 500mg, I'm still completely fucked in the head and ready to eat a bullet.

Someone's telling me about a compound called NA - FGL that supposedly can fix me but I can't find any info on it online.

 

I also think the compound you are referring to will raise glutamate (IIRC, there is a chance that I am not).  I would advise to stay away.  Attack it from the ground up. 

[korpesh]

Just another random suggestion... Mildronate (Meldonium). It's considered a sports performance enhancer, but I recently did a three week stint of it and it seems to be very beneficial to mood and clarity of thinking as well. I think it primarily works by improving metabolism and blood flow, including to the brain. It's banned from professional sports, but technically I don't believe it's illegal. I bought mine off of Amazon. At 500mg a day, it took about three days to start kicking in, but then seemed very healthy and positive. Will definitely be taking it again. ...Keep trying!

[FunSponge]

I don't actually know what's wrong with my brain specifically other then it's severely damaged, I have a referral for a nuero psychiatrist who hopefully can give me a better picture of what's wrong with the right brain scans.
I honestly thought Dihexa would reverse all damage and I could make a full recovery, I was even told by the most reputable source there is theoretically it should work, a one of 500mg dose has to do at least something, Iv been at this for over a decade and I'm still fucked in the head.