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So, megadose vitamins, is this legit?

orthomolecular

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#1 ironfistx

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:52 PM


I have been spending hours reading Andrew Saul's website, doctoryourself.com.  Mainly, this confusion is that the site is written pretty well such that I WANT to keep reading it.  But I will summarize.  High dose vitamin C eliminates sensations from cancer, and may treat it.  Naturally, the corporations don't want this information getting out.  Niacin cures psychosis.  Sprouts reverse blindness.

 

I was mostly on board until I got to him being against vaccines.

 

Anyway, does anyone mind shedding light on this?  Andrew Saul, Linus Pauling, Doc Giff, what are the deals with the stories these people tell?

 

When I take large doses of vitamins I don't feel good.

 

Are they preventative at all?  Will giant doses of vitamin C block you from getting cancer?  Dementia?  Arthritis?

 

Is this just nonsense from people choosing a different perspective to get viewers to their site?


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#2 gamesguru

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:00 PM

It's BS.  Basically relies on the anti-oxidant or chelation or some other theory of the month.

 

Beyond basic daily requirements, mega-dosing most things is useless, even counter-productive.  Vitamin C is probably going to leave less of a bad feeling than B vitamins (which may paradoxically wipe you out).

 

Better to get 70% of your RDA from foods than 130% from vitamins.. the foods provide fiber, and other phyto-nutrients and polyphenols that are DEFINITELY good for the body but not present in the vitamin or even in some cases supplement extracts.  A lot of requirements may be blown out of proporation, calcium notorious among them.

 

So yeah, listen to your body.  Pair up what it is saying, with what advice you are getting from the internet.  Linus Pauling died 25 years ago, not many credible names today are injecting mega-doses of Vitamin C or the likes.

 

Have a read of Andrew Weil's blog, you will see the leading experts are much more conservative.  He even says not to use Bacopa or Ginkgo, to stick with more proven approaches like Green Tea.


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#3 ironfistx

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 11:30 PM

Clearly, he says the companies don't want this information getting out.  Using Vitamin C is effective, but they can't make money while people know this!!!

 

CONSPIRACY.

 

All these folks say this.  Is there any honesty in it?



#4 gamesguru

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:13 AM

They don't want this information getting out.  It's secret information bro didn't you know?  Welcome to the club, yo.

 

No honesty in it, or intelligence.  Just plain, outrageous claims.. so outrageous they go unquestioned.



#5 ironfistx

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:40 AM

Do the stories they tell about it really keep lies?

 

This is the story about niacin curing psychosis: http://www.doctoryou...the_corner.html

 

This is the story about sprouts fixing sight problems: http://www.doctoryou...m/eyesight.html

 

This is the story about Vitamin C relieving cancer hassles: http://www.doctoryou...com/cancer.html



#6 gamesguru

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 03:37 PM

The sprouts curing sight problems I can see, Lutein and Zeaxanthin have proven benefits with eye health.  Many people are prescribed them for macular degeneration, and this is a serious prescription.. without it their vision would get a lot worse.

 

The one with niacin curing psychosis is most definitely an unfair conclusion.  I see another case where Niacin has CAUSED psychosis.  I did find another study claiming the opposite, that there is a niacin-respondant "subset" of schizophrenics.  This one is another case study (e.g. sample size of ONE person), and it has only been cited by 5 other articles implying a mediocre peer-response.  I would not rush to the conclusion that "niacin ought to be the first choice in our arsenal when it comes to treating newly diagnosed schizophrenics".  I just would NOT.

 

And the one with vitamin C curing cancer?  It's hard to delineate one cause in a disease as complicated as cancer.  Some people may die after surgical removal, while others flourish without surgery and the cancer seems to cure itself.  Without a sample size in at least the tens of thousands, it is impossible to draw any definitive conclusion.

 

You are nevertheless invited to eat more fruits and vegetables.  They contain ample amounts of vitamin C and other potent phyto-nutrients.


Edited by gamesguru, 15 February 2020 - 03:45 PM.


#7 Astroid

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 06:24 AM

There are Claims about a lot of things.. anyone can make such.

 

That does not prove that Mega Doses of Certain Supplements don't work.. especially as specific times and for specific reasons. 

 

Looks like Cherry Picking to me.. 

 

If one is deficient.. mega doses especially help solve the problem.

 

If one is down with say the flu.. OH, my God.. the China Flu.. 

   The body consumes massive amounts of Vitamin C... The body does not produce or store vitamin C..

 

 So what is the issue....? 

 So you might pee it out ... but it might help you too.    



#8 JohnBoyTheGreat

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 06:35 PM

At least one study I've read indicated that megadoses of vitamins may be useful, by supplying an excess of vitamins to parts of the body which do not always get an adequate supply, like the bladder (which was the focus of that study).

 

I don't believe it is wise to simply dismiss the possibility that megadoses could be helpful based upon some negative studies. There are also positive studies which do indicate that some supplements are effective when megadosed.

 

Rationally, we should examine which supplements might be useful in megadoses and which might be harmful, then megadose those which are of positive value and keep the rest at their recommended levels.

 

One could argue that the body has the capacity to handle many different levels of supplementation, since natural foods have wildly varying amounts of supplement content.

 

Searches on Google Scholar and PubMed reveal quite a bit of research regarding vitamin megadosing, with many positive studies favoring megadosing for specific conditions.

 

For example, a meta-analysis on vitamin C megadosing indicates that 0.25-1 gm/day lowers the incidence of the common cold by about 50% in people who are under short-term physical stress. Another meta-analysis indicated that the duration of the common cold could be reduced between 8%-18% depending upon age, in doses of 1-4 gm/day of vitamin C.

 

There are also many factors which should be considered which may skew the negative findings for megadosing supplements. For example, athletes utilize more vitamins than do sedentary persons. Studies which find that megadoses are harmful or have no benefits in the average population might very well discover that they have considerable benefit in athletes.

 

The problem with many studies is that they can only provide information for the specific cases they are testing, including the dose, the frequency of the dose, the specific population, the length of the study, etc. It's difficult to account for everything in any research, but when it comes to megadosing, there is a relative deficit of studies, and the studies which do exist tend to favor only a few of the vitamins (A, C, D, and E).

 

So don't write off megadosing too quickly...but also don't accept it too easily. There's still much to be learned and some evidence that some megadosing is useful.



#9 kurdishfella

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 07:49 AM

No way, as long as your vitamins and minerals etc are in normal levels, more will not do anything if anything it could worsen by decreasing other vitamins absorption etc or something.


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#10 pamojja

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 10:57 AM

No way, as long as your vitamins and minerals etc are in normal levels, more will not do anything if anything it could worsen by decreasing other vitamins absorption etc or something.

 

With multiple chronic diseases (PAD, COPD, T2D, ME/CFS) all in remission with targeted mega-dose vitamin/mineral therapy, I would disagree.

 

Without disease and all nutrients at optimal levels, its of course wasted efforts. But then I don't believe such a thing exists..
 


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#11 kurdishfella

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:27 PM

 

Are they preventative at all?  Will giant doses of vitamin C block you from getting cancer?  Dementia?  Arthritis?

 

@PAMOJJA

I was talking about if it will stop you from getting cancer or other diseases, sure they can give you remission if you already have something, but that is like taking away the symptoms but not getting to the root of the problem which are not vitamins or minerals unless they are in low quantities in the body or something along those lines. 

I think ME/CFS is not real and made up by lazy people but that is just my opinion. As I do with ADHD/ADD, adderall only works because it overflows your system.


Edited by kurdishfella, 22 March 2020 - 12:28 PM.

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#12 pamojja

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 01:17 PM

Well, conventional treadments wouldn't 'take away symptoms', for example a 60% government certified walking disabilty, or breathing difficulties, or high blood sugar spikes. Or my headache, concentration difficulties, and malaise after more than 5 hours of mental work, or less than 10 hours of sleep (unless having a full day off for being 'lazy'). Aftr all that 'symptoms' gone - which according to conventional medicine isn't even possible - what other would you call me now, than healthy again? Anything else I would rather consider hypochondric!

 

ME/CFS is a disease which, as any other fatigues from chronic diseases, is associated with pathological findings, and in some very very severe. See for example here: http://voicesfromtheshadowsfilm.co.uk/ - very informative. It's the same ignorance you are exposing as was present with MS, which before becoming properly identified and having been downplayed as mere hysteria.

 

 



#13 kurdishfella

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 04:26 PM

What did I say about MS? 

 

anyway i just think people over exaggerate their CFS/fatigue etc and sometimes use it as an excuse and the condition or whatever you wanna call it is more mental than biological if that makes sense. I still havent seen it been classified as a disease? where? by people who sell supplements to cure it?


Edited by kurdishfella, 22 March 2020 - 05:19 PM.


#14 Mind

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 04:47 PM

There are always some instances where we might find that a megadose of some nutrient will help with some health conditions or diseases. 

 

Also remember that some people have very poor diets (they are obese and eat junk food/fast food). If they take some vitamins and minerals (that they haven't ingested for a long time) they will report feeling much better. This does NOT mean that a healthy person will feel the same or derive a benefit.

 

Multiple large studies have noted that megadosing on vitamins and minerals leads to INCREASED mortality. These studies might not be perfect, but they should serve as a warning. "Balance" or moderation is usually a good strategy.

 

https://www.longecit...han-good/page-1



#15 pamojja

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 06:06 PM

What did I say about MS? 

 

anyway i just think people over exaggerate their CFS/fatigue etc and sometimes use it as an excuse and the condition or whatever you wanna call it is more mental than biological if that makes sense. I still havent seen it been classified as a disease? where? by people who sell supplements to cure it?

 

Like in the example (video above, you obviously didn't consider worthwile to watch to inform yourself) where people are dying from a disease, while the physilogical causes just aren't found yet? That's why  mentioned MS, which before finding its physiologic causes also was thought psychological only.

 

Here a long thread at PhoenixRising, about the struggle to get it classified as a physiological and not psychological disease: https://forums.phoen...-systems.59088/
 

On that forum you'll also find many threads, which goes in detail about the preliminary research, which does find physiologic abnormalities.


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#16 pamojja

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 07:49 PM

There are always some instances where we might find that a megadose of some nutrient will help with some health conditions or diseases. 

 

Also remember that some people have very poor diets (they are obese and eat junk food/fast food). If they take some vitamins and minerals (that they haven't ingested for a long time) they will report feeling much better. This does NOT mean that a healthy person will feel the same or derive a benefit.

 

Multiple large studies have noted that megadosing on vitamins and minerals leads to INCREASED mortality. These studies might not be perfect, but they should serve as a warning. "Balance" or moderation is usually a good strategy.

 

https://www.longecit...han-good/page-1

 

That's totally expected. Taking 24g of ascorbic, 6g of inositol, lysine, arginines, prebiotics, 4g of EPA/DHA, 3g of niacin, taurine, glycine, 2g of B5, carnitine, ribbose, tmg, beta-alanine, creatine, lecithin and spirulina per day - to mention just the highest doses I took in average the last 11 years - isn't an easy walk in the park!

 

Only someone with severe disabilties and on the way to dying would take such strenuous and persistent efforts - beside the not less dedictated life-style changes (diet, excercise, sun- and cold exposure..) - simply for being able to life a normal life, for making a living, and not dying miserably.
 

There is never a way to randomize such huge efforts. And with so many chronic diseases in remission I certainly don't have the illusion that my life-expectancy would be even close normal. Its only a matter of some healthy years regained. But who knows, maybe I'm as lucky as Linus Pauling, who despite prostrate cancer made it to 94..

 


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#17 pamojja

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 03:22 PM

I think ME/CFS is not real and made up by lazy people but that is just my opinion.

 

A appropiate comparison between ME/CFS with corvid-19:

 

 

What people are going through right now is pretty much similar to what we go through every single day.

- Inability to work...
- Being afraid of what tomorrow may bring...
- Being afraid of death (I used to be afraid that I won't make it through the night)...
- Unable to sustain yourself financially...
- Unable to get help because nobody cares...
- Unable to test yourself (because there are no tests available for the general public)...
- Unable to get any social benefit...
- Unable to plan your future...
- Unable to even go outside...
- Many people (who don't understand the severity) incl. in some cases doctors are laughing at you because they think that you are exaggerating (eg. when you wear a mask)...

Obviously, there are major differences between CFS and covid disease, and it's not so nice to reduce everything to your own disease, but the consequences (shown above) of these two diseases are quite similar to each other.

So... maybe when one asks you how it feels to have CFS you might answer: it's like having covid disease. Or it's even like not having it but being scared of having it, suspecting it, trying to test yourself, get a treatment etc. ...

The most important difference is that covid will be handled quickly and taken seriously whereas CFS...


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