38 replies to this topic

[metabrain]

If a person has low dopamine, can they take a course of medication to fix the dysfunction on a permanent basis?

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Sure 
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[Galaxyshock]

71% of people at LongeCity have low dopamine. Someone must be stealing our dopamine. Could be Russians, could be Chinese. Personally I suspect it's the schizophrenics as psychosis is linked to excess dopamine. I wonder if I could get some of the dopamine back from the schizophrenic through osmosis or something. This could also benefit the psyhotic patient since I would act as neuroleptic.

[jroseland]

It depends on the dysfunction. Have you had a blood test done?

[Michael Rian]

71% of people at LongeCity have low dopamine. Someone must be stealing our dopamine. Could be Russians, could be Chinese. Personally I suspect it's the schizophrenics as psychosis is linked to excess dopamine. I wonder if I could get some of the dopamine back from the schizophrenic through osmosis or something. This could also benefit the psyhotic patient since I would act as neuroleptic.

 

Perhaps, alongside the fluoridation of our water supplies, our food sources have been genetically modified to have low building blocks for dopamine production, or, perhaps the multiple cancerous pesticides used on our foods, which have been linked to higher rates of Parkinsons disease in the areas they are farmed, are effecting us more than we would suspect?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28185034

 

http://www.haaretz.c...health/1.678095

http://www.mdscongre...-Population.htm

 

https://www.scientif...the-connection/

 

Or maybe I am just paranoid and everything is just peachy

[gamesguru]

It's me.  I've been vacuuming everyone's dopamine up into my nutsack.  You can panfry a slice to get yours back

 

tl;dr -- some combination of the following: ginkgo, green tea, quinoa,  magnesium, zinc... with less (but still promising) evidence to back it up: mu gua, catuaba and mucuna, schizandra and shilajit, grapefruit and ginger

[jaiho]

Low dopamine, or a lack of reward response is treated via neurogenesis mechanisms. Upregulation, sensitization of the reward system / limbic system.

Abstain from alcohol.

 

NSI-189, Meditation, Exercise, perhaps microdosing psychedelics.

Basically you want any substance that increase hippocampal cell proliferation. 

 

A favorite of mine is NSI-189 + Moclobemide, and tDCS.

 

[metabrain]

71% of people at LongeCity have low dopamine. Someone must be stealing our dopamine. Could be Russians, could be Chinese. Personally I suspect it's the schizophrenics as psychosis is linked to excess dopamine. I wonder if I could get some of the dopamine back from the schizophrenic through osmosis or something. This could also benefit the psyhotic patient since I would act as neuroleptic.

 

I have Idiopathic Hypersomnia which has left me with extreme memory loss, I have been able to elevate my dopamine slightly and improve my symptoms but I need something more permanent.

[Keizo]

If you have an actual diagnosis I would imagine you could get something from a medical doctor, and that would certainly be my first choice if I was you. I don't know about hypersomnia and so forth but with ADHD amphetamine does work when taken chronically in providing enhanced function and the risks are rather small in the dosages prescribed as far as I know. 

 

Personally I'm using some methylphenidate right now with my ADHD diagnosis, when I do use it every day for weeks it is relatively unnoticeable except it does provide the benefits on 'executive function' and it does provide wakefulness (but if my memory serves me right d-amphetamine was much stronger in wakefulness even in tiny doses for me).

 

As far as supplements I wouldn't hold much hope in that. If you want to throw some money at it on your own the only suggestion I would have is cerebrolysin or something similar, perhaps NSI-189 or beta-NGF, but I have no idea whatsoever if this would help you. The only reason I even mention this is because cerebroylsin has provided me with permanent effects regarding thinking ability, depression, brain fog, it also causes caffeine and various other drugs to have stronger effects when used, whereas I don't think anything else i have tried has had much effect after not taking it.

 

 

 

Edited by Keizo, 20 April 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[gamesguru]

As far as supplements I wouldn't hold much hope in that.

 

said some meth cracker at a bus stop

Edited by gamesguru, 21 April 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[Keizo]

 

As far as supplements I wouldn't hold much hope in that.

 

said some meth cracker at a bus stop

 

I would certainly suggest that the success rate of many non-prescription substances in treating medical conditions is abysmal, at least in comparison to the cases where there are prescription substances that treat the condition with very high respond rates. Amphetamine and methylphenidate are among the most effective substances that exist in psychiatry.Take enough supplements, over time, and you might stumble upon something useful. 

 Amphetamine even cures feminism, stoner-ism, and long greasy hair, especially if used in conjunction with such essential therapies such as electric shock and hormone replacement, however lobotomy might be optional. 

[gamesguru]

of course it takes time to stumble on something useful.  you have to completely rebuild your lifestyle, asking whether every choice in food fits with your goals or not.  but amphetamine does not cure those things, one classmate had to quit adderalls and weed before he could get back in school.  although adderall is a bit better at treating adhd than ginkgo, i'll give you that

Edited by gamesguru, 21 April 2017 - 11:25 PM.

[Keizo]

 And I'm not totally anti-supplements by the way, but I don't expect very much when I try them, I don't expect it to work in treating really severe problems or giving massive or immediate results. The most effective substances for "the brain" I have taken are in some way prescription substances, namely methylphenidate and cerebrolysin, although the stimulant probably has not had too much effect beyond when I use it.

Even prescription drugs if you use it for completely unrelated things than what they have been proven for probably will work very poorly, so I'm not actually seriously suggesting anyone take amphetamine etc for all sorts of things, but it is just  very effective at certain things and has a long track record.

 

I also feel these stimulants have gotten a bad reputation for the wrong reasons, or people somehow expect that powerful substances like these should be free from  abuse and any problems. It is sort of like how teenage pregnancies have gotten a bad reputation, people fail to realize that the people most likely to have all sorts of problems and unplanned lives (incl. pregnancy at inopportune times) are people who probably would have massive problems in their lives anyway, with or without a kid suddenly popping out. Meanwhile I think a lot of people who are very unlikely to have unplanned pregnancy extremely early and otherwise have very good and proper lives, would actually do very well if they did have a kid at an early age, I suspect.

 

More on topic: Here in Sweden I knew a guy who got prescribed Modafinil for a sleep disorder, but he had it since birth and it was probably fairly well diagnosed. I would suspect it's easier to get in many countries compared to regular stimulants for sleep related disorders.

 

 

[Diamondz]

Find tasks, foods, and natural supplements that promote reward-network responses and activation of the mesolimbic system.

 

If you live in South America, make a low concentration of cocaine solution, even lower found in coco-tea, and continue that. Not strong enough to become addicted, but low enough that you can promote a reward responses that would not negate the reward/medication-action. If you obtain the cocaine solution, locate foods that are rich in dopamine precursors rather then other drugs due to possible contradictions, but of course consider the types of foods if you're actually on a cocaine solution. Exercise may help increase levels, but I even tire of the same medical advice of diet, exercises, health lifestyle, etc. Where's the drugs? :p

 

Medically, there is a medication Intropin. It's slow process and requires drip therapy, given to persons with heart/pressure related issues. I am unsure of the Intropin would collect in neural tissues in the bran and generally increase levels since it may deactivated in the blood-stream, converted; obviously an amount would reach the brain, just wondering if it would increase dopamine to the effect or levels wanted. Dopamine also has an interesting relations to emotion, behavior, cognition, and movement; even hallucination if that interests you. L-DOPA is another drug,

 

I'd recommend Hydergine. They have an liquid solution on the internet, and a few vendors that carry the tab forms. 1mg worked wonderful in my late teens, it was even psychedelic and colorful. It's not very much on the internet, the dose may have been 1,5mg. In any event, I took 1 tab for 1-2 months and it was very positive.

Edited by Diamondz, 22 April 2017 - 07:14 AM.

[gamesguru]

I'm not totally anti-supplements 

apologies, kind of seemed that way how you first presented it.  and you write like some harvard graduate muthafucka with a broom up his ass, damn.  one could better understand four mexican dudes breakdancing in the rain

[Diamondz]

OP:

 

Check out Selegilene. Search on YouTube, it will help your problems.

[Keizo]

OP:

 

Check out Selegilene. Search on YouTube, it will help your problems.

From what I understand it is much safer than L-dopa, and if I recall L-dopa can stop working after some time (I think the same problem with Tyrosine exists, and in my experience Tyrosine doesn't work for more than a day in being stimulating). I have used Selegiline myself at times, mostly to try and get some of the benefits of BDNF which it might increase. It certainly can be stimulating.

 

I actually think this is a good suggestion, and I just did a quick google and it might even be used officially for hypersomnia and narcolepsy at times, and from what I have read before it should be very safe to take in low-moderate doses, keeping in mind potential dangerous combinations. Even if you can't get a prescription it probably isn't too illegal to buy it yourself. (I recall  a few years ago when I bought some, the customs in Sweden opened the package and sent it to me, there were conflicting national and EU laws which I think at the time allowed you to buy all kinds of prescription medicine from within the EU with no trouble.)

Edited by Keizo, 23 April 2017 - 11:43 AM.

[Baten]

Selegiline isn't a solution though. It won't "fix" whatever is causing low-dopa symptoms.

[gamesguru]

since EGCG conc is 5-10x lower on the brain the plasma, it could serve as an effective peripheral dopa-decarb inhibitor?  as well, horny goat weed normalizes tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme, and you should be good with a diet including at least some meat and cheese.  pumpkin seeds also apparently a great source of tyrosine

Edited by gamesguru, 23 April 2017 - 02:55 PM.

[Elroy]

Selegiline isn't a solution though. It won't "fix" whatever is causing low-dopa symptoms.

 

The vast majority of medications/modalities/supplements/etc. treat the symptoms, very few things fix the root cause. Often the root cause is unknown. NSI-189 may provide a "fix," I haven't tried it yet. I like Selegiline so far... If the low-dopa symptoms are from damage to the anterior cingulate cortex, Selegiline treatment significantly increases BDNF levels there (R), so it could provide a fix in some cases.

Edited by Elroy, 23 April 2017 - 10:27 PM.

[Diamondz]

You're right, I would prefer Deprenyl over L-DOPA; and the effective can decrease overtime. You can purchase over the internet without problem while finding a domestic supplier.

 

Comment on your Deprenyl experience. It was claimed to be effective solution and significantly increased dopamine levels.

 

 

 

OP:

 

Check out Selegilene. Search on YouTube, it will help your problems.

From what I understand it is much safer than L-dopa, and if I recall L-dopa can stop working after some time (I think the same problem with Tyrosine exists, and in my experience Tyrosine doesn't work for more than a day in being stimulating). I have used Selegiline myself at times, mostly to try and get some of the benefits of BDNF which it might increase. It certainly can be stimulating.

 

I actually think this is a good suggestion, and I just did a quick google and it might even be used officially for hypersomnia and narcolepsy at times, and from what I have read before it should be very safe to take in low-moderate doses, keeping in mind potential dangerous combinations. Even if you can't get a prescription it probably isn't too illegal to buy it yourself. (I recall  a few years ago when I bought some, the customs in Sweden opened the package and sent it to me, there were conflicting national and EU laws which I think at the time allowed you to buy all kinds of prescription medicine from within the EU with no trouble.)

 

[Diamondz]

https://www.antiagin...egiline-dep-pro

[Diamondz]

Selegiline is effective via MAO-B and MAO-A inhibition; preventing the breakdown of catachoalmine neurotransmitters, rather then increasing precursor levels to promote production of target neurotransmitter.

 

Dr. Knoll later published in his research papers that Selegiline has the ability to sensitize DA and PEA receptors, augmenting effects of increased neurotransmitter levels. The chemistry is also interested in that is resembles methamphetamine, and phenethlylamine. The most current version of Selegiline is made of the ® of the isomer rather then the racimic mixture. The metobolites of Selegiline were neuroprotective. You may consider the ROA for Selegiline per needs; and recommend trans-dermal patch. It comes in a liquid version and tablet form. Transdermal methods bypass the first-past metabolism if it were a pill and reduces the diet implications and considerations that arise from MAOI use. Selegiline is also chemically very similar to other drugs, neurotransmitters, and has a good toxicity profile, lower side effects, and effective nootropic in application of increasing dopamine levels and receptor respose.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Alpha GPC

Alpha-GPC has been noted to increase dopamine transporter (DAT) density and potassium-stimulated dopamine release, along with raising DOPAC levels in the cerebellum as well as the frontal cortex.

 

Choline-containing phospholipids were proposed as cognition enhancing agents, but evidence on their activity is controversial. CDP-choline (cytidine-5´-diphosphocholine, CDP) and choline alphoscerate (L-alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine, GPC) represent the choline-containing phospholipids with larger clinical evidence in the treatment of sequelae of cerebrovascular accidents and of cognitive disorders. These compounds which display mainly a cholinergic profile interfere with phospholipids biosynthesis, brain metabolism and neurotransmitter systems. Dated preclinical studies and clinical evidence suggested that CDP-choline may have also a monoaminergic profile. The present study was designed to assess the influence of treatment for 7 days with choline-equivalent doses (CDP-choline: 325 mg/Kg/day; GPC: 150 mg/Kg/day) of these compounds on brain dopamine (DA), and serotonin (5-HT) levels and on DA plasma membrane transporter (DAT), vesicular monoamine transporters (VMAT1 and VMAT2), serotonin transporter (SERT), and norepinephrine transporter (NET) in the rat. Frontal cortex, striatum and cerebellum were investigated by HPLC with electrochemical detection, immunohistochemistry, Western blot analysis and ELISA techniques. CDP-choline did not affect DA levels, which increased after GPC administration in frontal cortex and cerebellum. GPC increased also 5-HT levels in frontal cortex and striatum. DAT was stimulated in frontal cortex and cerebellum by both CDP and GPC, whereas VMAT2, SERT, NET were unaffected. VMAT1 was not detectable. The above data indicate that CDP-choline and GPC possess a monoaminergic profile and interfere to some extent with brain monoamine transporters. This activity on a relevant drug target, good tolerability and safety of CDP-choline and GPC suggests that these compounds may merit further investigations in appropriate clinical settings.

 

[Elroy]

Comment on your Deprenyl experience.

 

This is my 7th day taking 1.25mg (1/4 tab) sublingually. It's a little acidic under the tongue, so I spread it around when it starts to dissolve. Improved mood, energy and focus. Sleep onset is fast (no change). Waking during the night and tossing and turning (slight exacerbation).

 

When I take it in the morning along with Fluoxetine and Noopept, I get intense spacey focus with a strange feeling on my outer forearms, like numbness without loss of sensation. In future, I'll be waiting at least 2-3 hours after taking fluoxetine before taking Selegiline, which causes me no adverse effects. 

[metabrain]

Thank you all, I have been trying a few different things together recently, NSI-189, L-Tyrosine and L-Carnitine and I managed to get a  strong partial improvement but it fades after a week. I am going to try a longer trial of L-Tyrosine and L-Carnitine together and then a longer trial of NSI-189 separately to see which gave me the improvement, I have a feeling and I am hoping that it is a dopamine dysfunction that can be fixed with a dopamine agonist. I managed to reduce my daytime sleepiness by 50% with a GABA agonist so I am hoping the same logic could apply to the memory issue.

 

I will also try the recommendations above, I feel like I am getting closer to the answer.

[Diamondz]

I recommend the location of an agent that operates in ways of increasing dopamine and dopamine receptor response. The compounds you mentioned should aid in processing of dopamine, but I am unsure if they have the pharmacology required to raise general levels of dopamine. Increasing the response of dopamine via receptor sensitization is also important. I mean, they will increase dopamine, but I wonder if the levels drop after you stop them  because they are more like precursor agents. I would use them, sure -  just wondering if you get the effect you want.

 

Memory defect reasoning can be extensive; may that entail poor levels of neurotransmitter affecting communication performance; below average working memory capacity, and LTP and consolidation, to neurological defects or differences that affect memory and recall. Compounds that activate receptors; may that be dopamine or serotonin tend to generally increase mental function and provide greater performance. If you plan to raise your dopamine levels because there is indication that your levels are lower, then you will notice improved impact when they are raised. Selegline will also be intellectually promoting via it's mechanism and pharmacology. Hydergine for mental performance, and I found it very useful.

 

I'd recommend you adapt liquid fish oil. I used Carson's Fish Oil, produced in Sweden or Norway, and it was very wonderful. This would increase the composition profile of your neurons and body in general.

 

Consider your options, and all the best.

Edited by Diamondz, 26 April 2017 - 01:22 AM.

[jaiho]

Dopamine agonism is the wrong way to go, unless you have parkinsons.

Go for the root cause.

Psychological problems causing it perhaps?

Exercise+Meditation, and supplements that induce potent neurogenesis will do far more long term than any drug that releases dopamine (agonists, amphetamines, reuptake inhibitors)

[Keizo]

 

Comment on your Deprenyl experience.

 

 

When I take it in the morning along with Fluoxetine and Noopept, I get intense spacey focus with a strange feeling on my outer forearms, like numbness without loss of sensation.

 

Sounds sort of like mild shivers. Sound very similar to what one can get from amphetamine or methylphenidate. I would guess that it would go away with time if nothing else. 

 

Something I found works for sublingual dosage is to dissolve the 1/4 tab (at least with Jumex this worked) in a drop of water, so it becomes a paste, then put it under the tongue, that way it can dissolve faster in your mouth.

Edited by Keizo, 26 April 2017 - 09:47 AM.

[metabrain]

Dopamine agonism is the wrong way to go, unless you have parkinsons.

Go for the root cause.

Psychological problems causing it perhaps?

Exercise+Meditation, and supplements that induce potent neurogenesis will do far more long term than any drug that releases dopamine (agonists, amphetamines, reuptake inhibitors)

 

I have been evaluated by psych for 2 years including close observation.They observed issues with extreme tiredness, extremely poor attention, anxiety and memory but it did not match any psychological disorder, clinical depression, ADHD etc so I was discharged.

 

I was diagnosed with mild obstructive sleep apnea and prescribed CPAP, that seemed to be it but after 3 years I was still tired, my sleep doctor suspected that I had a comorbid physical illness as well as my OSA but doctors couldn't find anything so I was left to research for myself.

 

I started to expect something more unusual Idiopathic Hypersomnia, a very rare disorder whos exact cause is unknown..

 

I recently tried the experimental treatment for Idiopathic Hypersomnia, Clarithromycin, this reduced my tiredness by 50%, eliminated my anxiety and my attention issues, it was a massive improvement for me, in the Clarithromycin research scientists were able to improve some peoples symptoms of tiredness but the treatment did not improve the memory deficits.

 

From my own experiments whenever I raise my dopamine my memory improves but fades after discontinuation, I have tried numerous SSRIs/SNRIs and even Anti Psychotics, the only one that had a slight effect was Sertraline, Sertraline works for me at 100mg, at 100mg Sertraline acts as an SDRI which is what makes it unique in that class  but is only a temporary solution and it makes me feel miserable.

 

I know from reading online that people with damaged dopamine neurons exhibit parkinsons and movement disorders so I am hoping it is simply a dysfunction, using a dopamine agonist I am hoping to improve the dysfunction in a similar manner to how I used Clarithromycin which is a GABA agonist to return my GABA system back to a more normal state (see http://journals.sage...69881113515062)