10 replies to this topic

[brosci]

I've been taking ALCAR at 2x 500mg/d, and lately doing a bit more in the way of IF and intermittent caloric restriction (often between days at the gym.)  As such, it's feeling a little bit like I might be negatively impacting thyroid hormones.

 

Looking into ways to increase thyroid hormones, and increase leptin sensitivity, I came across ashwagandha.  Around the same time, I also came across this product:

 

http://www.lifeexten...CT-Longevity-AI

 

Does it make sense to take something like this on low calorie / fasting days?

[Believer]

Lowering thyroid hormones as lowering metabolism is one way to extend lifespan (but not healthspan). 

[Oakman]

I was initially interested in their new product line. Then I looked at the prices, which are very high. Then the ingredients, which generally are common supplements, used in potentially interesting combinations. Many of their ingredients are offered in such small amounts as to cast doubt on their efficacy. On the plus side, I sometimes use their ingredient lists as a starting point to concocting my own DIY supplement combinations.

[brosci]

I was initially interested in their new product line. Then I looked at the prices, which are very high. Then the ingredients, which generally are common supplements, used in potentially interesting combinations. Many of their ingredients are offered in such small amounts as to cast doubt on their efficacy. On the plus side, I sometimes use their ingredient lists as a starting point to concocting my own DIY supplement combinations.

 

Does that supplement actually seem under-dosed?  It looks like about what you would get from typical 500mg ashwagandha + 200-400mg ginseng extract capsules, although I don't see too many ginseng extracts with a high rg3 concentration (I'm not sure which components are the most neurologically active.)

[brosci]

In reading more about this supplement, I've read that the ashwagandha extract used is actually the most cytotoxic component from the plant, which is actually purposefully absent from patented, well-tested extracts like KSM66.  I'm now more on the fence about the longterm health implications for this supplement.

Edited by brosci, 05 April 2018 - 07:55 PM.

[zen]

In reading more about this supplement, I've read that the ashwagandha extract used is actually the most cytotoxic component from the plant, which is actually purposefully absent from patented, well-tested extracts like KSM66.  I'm now more on the fence about the longterm health implications for this supplement.

​
I am not sure I understand your concerns. 
​Assuming you are taking about Withaferin A, I am curious where did you find an information that it is being purposefully removed from commercial ashwagandha extracts?

BTW. There is quite a lot of information available documenting its properties:

https://www.google.c...1.0.ah-Vh0DlGcE


 

Edited by zen, 07 April 2018 - 03:28 PM.

[brosci]

​
I am not sure I understand your concerns. 
​Assuming you are taking about Withaferin A, I am curious where did you find an information that it is being purposefully removed from commercial ashwagandha extracts?

BTW. There is quite a lot of information available documenting its properties:

https://www.google.c...1.0.ah-Vh0DlGcE


 

 

http://www.ksm66ashw...d_you_know.html

"Make sure that you assess the concentration of Withaferin A. Not all withanolides are beneficial. Withaferin A is one withanolide which is cytotoxic, as has been established in multiple scientific studies. So, it is undesirable to have Withaferin A in an ashwagandha extract when the intended use is for classical applications like building anti-stress ability, energy, cognition and immunity. Some ashwagandha extracts have high levels of Withaferin A because the manufacturers use ashwagandha leaves. Using leaves spikes up the overall withanolide content, but it also brings in the undesirable withanolide ‘Withaferin A’. KSM-66 consists of negligible levels of Withaferin A, making it very safe for human consumption."

[RWhigham]

http://www.ksm66ashw...d_you_know.html

"Make sure that you assess the concentration of Withaferin A. Not all withanolides are beneficial. Withaferin A is one withanolide which is cytotoxic, as has been established in multiple scientific studies. So, it is undesirable to have Withaferin A in an ashwagandha extract when the intended use is for classical applications like building anti-stress ability, energy, cognition and immunity. Some ashwagandha extracts have high levels of Withaferin A because the manufacturers use ashwagandha leaves. Using leaves spikes up the overall withanolide content, but it also brings in the undesirable withanolide ‘Withaferin A’. KSM-66 consists of negligible levels of Withaferin A, making it very safe for human consumption."

 

The reference above is to a scare tactic claim with no references from the  manufacturer of "KSM ashwagandha".  It is total hogwash.

Google Ashwagandha toxicity, or see  Safety assessment of Withania somnifera extract standardized for Withaferin A: Acute and sub-acute toxicity study

 

The toxicity study was performed in Wistar rats by oral administration. An acute toxicity study was done at the dose of 2000 mg/kg

... administration of extract did not show any toxicologically significant treatment related changes in clinical observations, ophthalmic examination, body weight gain, feed consumption, clinical pathology evaluation, and organ weight. Hematological and serum chemistry parameters were within the normal limits. Terminal necropsy did not reveal any treatment related gross or histopathological findings.

Based on this study, the no-observed-adverse-effect-level of WSE is 2000 mg/kg body weight, the highest level tested.

 

They didn't actually find the NOAEL level, just that it's some unspecified amount higher than 2 g/kg

Edited by RWhigham, 08 April 2018 - 10:04 PM.

[airplanepeanuts]

My thought is that it is a stupid product name. There is nothing A.I. about combining three pretty common supplements.

[brosci]

My thought is that it is a stupid product name. There is nothing A.I. about combining three pretty common supplements.

 

There is some interesting methodology going on behind the scenes:

 

Applying deep adversarial autoencoders for new molecule development in oncology:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5355231/

Applications of Deep Learning in Biomedicine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27007977

Deep learning applications for predicting pharmacological properties of drugs and drug repurposing using transcriptomic data:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4965264/

 

Deep biomarkers of human aging: Application of deep neural networks to biomarker development:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4931851/

 

In silico Pathway Activation Network Decomposition Analysis (iPANDA) as a method for biomarker development:
https://www.nature.c...les/ncomms13427

"We obtained a large data set of standard blood tests with 41 parameters linked to age and sex of the patients from Invitro Laboratories, one of the largest providers of laboratory services in Eastern Europe. The data set contained over 60,000 samples coming from routine checkups and excluded sources of patients with diseases like hospitals and medical institutions. We trained 21 single class deep neural networks ensembled using a stacking model to predict the patients' chronological age with 83.5% epsilon-accuracy r of 0.91 with R(2) of 0.82 and mean absolute error (MAE) of 5.55 years.

Following on the footsteps of Microsoft's http://www.how-old.net, we built a website http://www.aging.ai inviting people from all over the world to submit their test results in order to guess their age. From January 15 to March 31st over 1,500 people participated in the study. In addition to blood tests we asked to provide height, weight and smoking status, the new parameters that are being evaluated for the future studies. We plan to expand Aging.AI system to work with urine, transcriptomic and imaging data and welcome collaborations in building comprehensive and actionable biomarkers of aging."

Edited by brosci, 09 April 2018 - 12:08 AM.

[albedo]

There is some interesting methodology going on behind the scenes:

 

...

 

I am still trying to make sense of results I got with aging.ai which inserts in a long tradition of biological aging assessments. I am very far from being clear as also discussed in this thread in case you have missed it. I do not use LEF product but the approach is interesting, we would need a sound validation on impact but we are very far from it I guess.