6 replies to this topic

[Rosanna]

Hi

 

I'm wondering if anyone can offer their opinion on this because I can't seem to find the answer anywhere and my guess is the doctor will just wait until it's a problem.

 

My friend is 60, eats very healthily and looks half his age.  Very slim, flat stomach, and the energy of a 16 year old.  In fact he has a bit too much energy for everyone else around him and is very hyperactive.

 

Due to a pain condition he was having a lidocaine infusion and somehow got angry with the people doing it, (this happens, he's very hyper but he is warmhearted underneath and harmless), or was telling them about something that made him angry and apparently they told him to stay still and wait 30 mins before he could go home because his BP jumped to 180/110.  A week ago he had a baseline BP (when calm) of 140/90.

 

Me being me, I told him the 140/90 could come down a bit and that he would benefit from trying to get it down.

 

Interested in your thoughts.  The 180/110 is malignant, but it was very temporary and at the moment he's not been given any BP meds.  In a way I think he'd be healthier in the long run if he works to get it down nutritionally.  I've suggested he pay privately for a stress echocardiogram and then we'll have a better idea of what his BP is doing under stress, but here in the UK this is unlikely to be offered or even suggested by the nhs at this stage.  My friend's dad died at 64, the same as my own dad, hence my concern.  I tend to offer him a lot of support as he struggles to concentrate on anything and often wants to hear my view on things.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on what he should be doing diet wise.  He eats so much fruit and veg already and very little meat or fat.  I've suggested he cut it out entirely for 6 months and increase his leafy veg and beetroot, etc, and also to walk and get a little out of breath 3 times a week (but he does that already, lol).  Also am I over reacting?  He does not have ongoing malignant high BP......how likely is 180/110 during an angry episode?  It still seems too much to me.

 

Thanks  :-)

 

 

[Countrystation]

Hi Rosanna,
What’s his cholesterol ? My first thought was more healthy fats to slow down the absorption of carbs - I’m vegetarian but back when I was vegan and low fat, my cholesterol and BP were higher. I’d add more avocados and nuts and almonds and good oils and cut out most flour and sugar but leave oatmeal and whole grains and perhaps fatty fish if he likes it. He sounds like a Vata (perhaps you know this very active Ayurvedic type), nurture is often the key to health with slim and hyper types. Their emotions run their health and heart is at the center of that. But even besides that hippie talk of mine, many of us need more healthy fats and not less, more veggies, more nuts, and less flour and sugar. What’s sweet is that you care. A very lovely evening to you.
A.

[Oakman]

I am not any BP expert. So take this with that in mind. When BP is higher, esp. at rest, one would speculate there is a functional reason behind that. And that could be a result of constricted or hardened arteries. The goal is to have flexible arteries, obviously.  It may require a doctor to do some tests and prescription drugs to treat but...

 

From a diet perspective, no alcohol, smoking, reduce sodium, work up to get more exercise, esp. cardio. A good end result may be about 1-2 hours cardio a day. Yea it sounds like a lot, but not if it's something he enjoys (whatever that may be, biking, walking, running, treadmill, etc.) Also foods containing nitric oxide, chocolate, beets, spinach, citrus, etc. help dilate blood vessels and so lower BP and make exercise easier.

Edited by Oakman, 05 April 2018 - 08:39 PM.

[Heisok]

Hi Rosanna,

 

It seems that he already could be diagnosed with high blood pressure according to the old guidelines.

 

As to anger causing spikes, I have seen it in others. They have diagnosed high blood pressure, but anger spikes it up to the levels your friend had. Not a good thing. I do not know what their immediate pre-anger BP was, so maybe the spike cold go higher if the baseline is higher.

 

Whenever I see a Dr., they take BP at the beginning of the visit. Simply seeing a Dr. can spike BP, and an infusion due to pain might send it higher. Did they take his pre?

 

The advice above looks good.

 

"High blood pressure should be treated earlier with lifestyle changes and in some patients with medication – at 130/80 mm Hg rather than 140/90 – based on new ACC and American Heart Association (AHA) guidelines for the detection, prevention, management and treatment of high blood pressure." American Heart Association

Edited by Heisok, 05 April 2018 - 09:30 PM.

[Rosanna]

Thanks Oakman and Heisok

 

Oakman, your thoughts suggest to me that he should have a stress echo test, so we can see what happens when the heart is under stress.  He might sail through it with no episodes, he's always had good BP in the past, it's only this time it's been a bit high and then that spike.  But if there were problems, they would be found now, while a problem may only just be starting to emerge.

 

Heisok, they took his pre bp and he told me it was 'good,' so I don't know what it was, only the one he had a week previously for pre ritalin meds (which he's not started yet, and the bp was 140/90).  He said the spike was only due to the anger and before they were saying how good everything was.  'But they were really worried,' he said, when it spiked (and not like him to dramatise....get angry yes, lol, but not for the drama).  I've been reading how a lot of bp meds have unwanted side effects including heart attack in some cases, like with ACE inhibitors, the very thing they're trying to stop.........and my friend is actually one of those really disciplined people over food.  If something's 'bad' he can just stop eating it, whatever it is.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, it's making me think a stress echo is the best way to go as it will highlight any blockages, or bp issues under stress and get more of an idea if this is actually a problem or a blip.  That and suggesting some tweaks to his diet, they won't be major changes as he eats really healthily, brocolli, garlic, kale, beetroot, avocado, daily....

 

Thanks for helping me process this.

 

If anyone knows whether that increase in BP is considered normal if it's in response to anger and it's only temporary, I'd like to know.  They let him go after 30 mins when he said his BP went back to normal.

[John250]

I don’t see anything wrong with a mild ace inhibitor like Lisinopril. It will improve endothelial function. Maybe he can try hawthorn berry. 500mg 2x/day from Jarrows worked pretty well for me.

[Rosanna]

Is high blood pressure necessarily a sign of atherosclerosis.....all his blood pressure readings have been normal and some very good in the last month,  Despite that one high reading when he was telling a very angry story and getting animated (he does, you can almost see the steam coming out of the nose and ears!), when it was much too high.  The doctors kept him behind after the test for 30 mins and made sure it went back down before he left.  So it was at a point where intervention would have been necessary had it not gone down.  Despite that they've decided to allow him to take some adult ritalin for ADHD.....I'm a bit worried about how that will affect the heart and blood pressure, but it's helping him interact a lot more reasonably (he's a good person, just hectic and always in a rush, etc)