17 replies to this topic

[Rosanna]

Hi everyone

 

I'm 10 hours into giving up sugar.  I don't mean natural sugar in foods, in fact my diet is high carb and vegan mainly....but I'm eating mountains of chocolate, so today I decided to give it up.  At least for a week or so just to get control back over it.  

 

So now I've got dreadful cravings.  I can sit them out, but wondering if anyone knows the chemical process that occurs that causes the craving and how long it lasts before it goes away (and what leads to it going away, I don't believe it's all psychological, I think it's 'chemical')

 

Anyone have any knowledge or thoughts on this?  Thanks.

[misterE]

We crave sugar because sugar is our basic fuel source and sugar rapidly provides energy. The correct way to obtain these sugars is from whole-foods like starches and fruits. Humans also crave calorie-dense foods, like fats and concentrated carbohydrates. We crave these foods because we evolved in a environment where calories were scarce and hard to come by, which is why we are programmed to seek out calorie-dense foods. So when it comes to the chocolate, perhaps it's not the sugar, but the package. Chocolate is about half-fat half-sugar, contains hardly any fiber and any water, and therefor chocolate is extremely calorie-dense. Continue to eat your high-carb vegan diet, and save chocolate and other rich delicacies for occasional treats; that would be my main advice to you.  

[pamojja]

 

So now I've got dreadful cravings.  I can sit them out, but wondering if anyone knows the chemical process that occurs that causes the craving and how long it lasts before it goes away (and what leads to it going away, I don't believe it's all psychological, I think it's 'chemical')

 

It could also be something you intuitively crave for in chocolate (Magnesium, Zinc, Copper..). The easy way to handle chocolate craving is by eating only at least 80% chocolate. I do have confirmed Mg and Zn deficiency. Dark chocolate can be so bitter that it's intake is naturally limited.

 

You could also really crave fats. I mentioned when I get a fully fat-saturated meal (nuts, avocado etc. ..even a steak after having been vegan for 40 years and getting chronic illness from this life-style) I never crave. But even a full bowl of veggies always leaves me reach out for a piece of dark chocolate afterwards.

Edited by pamojja, 25 April 2018 - 12:05 PM.

[Rosanna]

Ok so I'm wondering what the 'cheerful' response to my post really means, lol.  Is it the equivalent of sitting eating popcorn and watching things unfold maybe... 

 

Anyway, I've been experiencing a lot of fatigue and there are two possible medical reasons for this, which my doctors are looking into.  I think the chocolate craving is linked 

to that.  I do eat 70% chocolate only, I don't eat real rubbish, and everything else I eat is healthy....but I've adapted to the bitter taste, lol.

 

Whilst mainly vegan, I do eat fish, and also have yoghurt and egg whites occasionally.  Also fat from avocado.  If I'm visiting someone I'll have their butter on toast but I won't buy anything like that for my own home as I don't think I do well on fatty foods.  I always feel rubbish if i have a day of high fat foods.  Always feel better on high complex carb and veggie foods.

 

I don't intend for this chocolate thing to continue hence I'm on a withdrawal.  Today's a bit easier.  I'm just a bit of a geek and thought it would be interesting to tell myself what was happening chemically during the craving and then what had happened when the craving abated.  Haven't had any craving today, but I expect it'll arrive late afternoon again, lol.  Thanks for joining in.

[pamojja]

If you don't do well with fats, that can't be the cause. Course you could also trial Magnesium and Zinc as supplements to see if it helps. In my case only Magnesium-sulfate IVs helped to ease my Mg-deficiency (along with 2.4 g elemental Mg supplemental, and 0.6 from diet!). Also a RBC Mg blood-test would definitely tell.

 

One way to tease out any effect of the remaining sugar in dark-chocolate would be the use of pure cocoa-powder.

Edited by pamojja, 25 April 2018 - 02:18 PM.

[Rosanna]

Actually when I gave up chocolate before I found myself drinking pure cocoa, not even with milk or sugar, just on it's own.....so perhaps it's the magnesium, or something else in cocoa.  Thanks for reminding me.

[HaplogroupW]

One possibility is 100% dark chocolate/cacao, and sweeten with glycine. I've gone so far as to take a square, dip it in peanut butter then in glycine.

[YOLF]

Raspberry ketones can normalize how you feel when you kick the sugar habit. It's a good energy source and relieves the withdrawal anxiety.

Edited by YOLF, 01 May 2018 - 12:31 AM.

[Nate-2004]

I think she's asking how to relieve the awful cravings and withdrawal symptoms. If anyone knows that'd be great because kicking the sugar habit is about as hard as quitting heroin, especially in the U.S. where you're completely inundated with the stuff.

[YOLF]

Replacing the source of energy will relieve what she's experiencing. More demand for energy when fasting or dieting naturally leads to ketosis. When the body starts running on Ketones is when the dieting hunger starts dropping off. So you can kick off that process early with RKs and bypass the hunger until your body would naturally start running on them. That's a way smarter way to use these things than advertised methods and probably had something to do with some of the studies that showed efficacy. The fat burning conclusion was likely erroneous and the reason why applying it wrong lead to a loss of efficacy. It still works, it just needs to be used differently, used to stop early hunger that would lead to rebound binging.

[Rosanna]

Thanks for all the replies, I'll respond soon.  After reading this forum tonight and the regimens I feel totally unhealthy, not sure why I'm alive, lol.

 

I am trying to combine a low fodmap diet with mainly veganism, but not totally.....using dairy occasionally and fish a few times a week.  Re low fodmaps, I'm just trying to find out what upsets my stomach here and there, it's random, and I expect one type of fodmap that my, mainly vegan, diet is giving me too much of...once identified, I will stop the low fodmap diet because I doubt the long term effects are good for us.

 

Back to sugar.  Well, I started the chocolate again.  Hear me out.....I started getting my heart skips again.....as I was watching calories and generally being very strict with myself, I thought it was due to that (it's happened before, a lot of things trigger my heart skips and hunger / or even reduced calories without hunger, is one of them)....it's also partly due to hormones as there's something of a pattern to it....

 

I mention all this because it's confusing where to start with all these factors, to try to eat in a way that would promote longevity above average at least (with all the thought going into it I need the extra time, lol)

 

I have the willpower to be really strict with my diet (and have done so in the past, not so long ago).  The heart skips usually cause me to stop everything and fall off the wagon.  They scare me.....and chocolate and fatty food is a quick way to settle them....although if I look closely I usually find I've had too few calories one day that's triggered things.

 

I think there's an energy problem with me too though, I'm on beta blockers and have very little energy.  I used to have loads.  I'm gradually coming off the beta blockers, and hopefully I'll feel stronger then.

 

Just mentioning all these things because I partly wonder if the heart skips are caused by some kind of energy problem.  Sorry this is all a bit complex, I will understand if no one has anything to add.  I'll report back anything useful later.

[Rosanna]

The beta blockers were given to me to help with the heart skips although i've been told I don't have to have them and my stress echo was normal.

[YOLF]

Don't feel intimidated, we all started out with just a few and most of us are trying to live for an extraordinarily long time.

 

Genetics are the most direct route, if you get your genotype done with 23andMe (takes a few weeks) you can get a view into your metabolism and find out what foods are actually bad for you with a higher degree of accuracy than trial and error alone. 23and Me won't give you everything you need to know, but lots of other companies are popping up who can help you along your way. They're running a mother's day sale too. Learn what you can in the mean time and it'll give you a better basis for working out the details of your genetics.

 

There's no life extension food that works for everyone. What you should and shouldn't eat is entirely up to your genetics. Some proportion of people are healthier eating fewer carbs and more fat, others just the opposite. It depends on what diseases proclivities you have and how your metabolism is built. What works for most won't necessarily work for you.

 

Have you had any other testing done?

[Rosanna]

Thanks YOLF

 

Do these tests tell you what diseases most likely await someone when they're older?  Not sure I'm ready to know that (there are reasons atm)

 

That said, I'd be interested in any genetic testing that would tell me the best diet for me. :-)

 

Edited by Rosanna, 13 May 2018 - 07:53 PM.

[YOLF]

Well, you don't have to look at it and 23andMe alone won't tell you as much as you need to know. You'll have to get the rest from Promethease and study the results. Not everything from Promethease's source, SNPedia, is accurate, and some of it is more than meets the eye.

 

Then there are services like LiveWello and any number of new startups. It's all a learning process, but you only have to get from it what you want. 

 

If you're not particularly interested in alot of reading and understanding, you might consider hiring a Life Coach or similar who does personalized research for you.

[Rosanna]

Thanks.  I love reading and understanding stuff, I'm amazed at how much everyone knows here and any starting points for building such a knowledge base, I'm very interested to hear.

 

Not wanting to know about my genetic disease propensity is more a personal/emotional issue at the moment based on what happened to a family member.  

 

I'm going to seriously look at this, thanks!

 

[kurdishfella]

Anything in excess quantity is bad not necessarily just sugar that everyone has appointed the enemy of all.

Sugar is healthy and required that's why it is plentiful in all sorts of food.

[Mind]

Anything in excess quantity is bad not necessarily just sugar that everyone has appointed the enemy of all.

Sugar is healthy and required that's why it is plentiful in all sorts of food.

 

The problem is unnaturally high amounts of unnatural sugars. The modern SAD diet is crammed with sugars not found anywhere in nature. No one could possibly find as much sugar in nature as one finds in the modern processed food supply.

 

That is the problem. That is why people in industrialized countries are so obese and getting worse.