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fiber only benefits 2 bacterias, it doesnt cause diversity!

microbiota probiotics prebiotics fiber

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#1 hazy

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 04:50 PM


https://www.nutraing...about-diversity

 

Consuming dietary fibers does lead to higher levels of Bifidobacterium spp. and Lactobacillus spp., but do not affect the diversity of bacteria in the gut, says a meta-analysis of 64 studies.

 

on the page you can also see which beneficial bacteria DOESNT benefit from fiber. its quite few actually



#2 pamojja

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:08 PM

What is however strongly associated with microbiome diversity is dietary variation:

 

 

http://ucsdnews.ucsd...ats-in-your-gut

Big data dump from the world’s largest citizen science microbiome project reveals how factors such as diet, antibiotics and mental health status can influence the microbial and molecular makeup of your gut

Emerging trends
All of the data collected by the American Gut Project are publicly available, without participants’ identifying information. This open access approach allows researchers around the world to mine the data for meaningful associations between factors such as diet, exercise, lifestyle, microbial makeup and health. Here are a few observations that have emerged so far:

Diet. The number of plant types in a person’s diet plays a role in the diversity of his or her gut microbiome—the number of different types of bacteria living there. No matter the diet they prescribed to (vegetarian, vegan, etc.), participants who ate more than 30 different plant types per week (41 people) had gut microbiomes that were more diverse than those who ate 10 or fewer types of plants per week (44 people). The gut samples of these two groups also differed in the types of molecules present.

Antibiotics. The gut microbiomes of American Gut Project participants who reported that they took antibiotics in the past month (139 people) were, as predicted, less diverse than people who reported that they had not taken antibiotics in the last year (117 people). But, paradoxically, people who had taken antibiotics recently had significantly greater diversity in the types of chemicals in their gut samples than those who had not taken antibiotics in the past year.

The participants who ate more than 30 plants per week also had fewer antibiotic resistance genes in their gut microbiomes than people who ate 10 or fewer plants. In other words, the bacteria living in the guts of the plant-lovers had fewer genes that encode the molecular pumps that help the bacteria avoid antibiotics. This study didn’t address why this might be the case, but the researchers think it could be because people who eat fewer plants may instead be eating more meat from antibiotic-treated animals or processed foods with antibiotics added as a preservative, which may favor the survival of antibiotic-resistant bacteria...

 



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#3 hazy

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:53 PM

yeh diversity in diet is the best way to go. only meat eaters or vegetarians, are both not doing the right thing actually



#4 pamojja

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:13 PM

yeh diversity in diet is the best way to go. only meat eaters or vegetarians, are both not doing the right thing actually

 

Think you understood this wrong. Anyone eating up to 30 different vegetables a week as in above findings doesn't has many opportunities for eating much meat anymore. And showed to have highest diversity. As they said:

 

 

No matter the diet they prescribed to (vegetarian, vegan, etc.), participants who ate more than 30 different plant types per week (41 people) had gut microbiomes that were more diverse than those who ate 10 or fewer types of plants per week (44 people).

 

Note again: Not any dietary orientation correlated with highest micro-biome diversity, but the number of different plants eaten per week.



#5 mccoy

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 11:06 AM

A couple of things are not clear from the brief reports of that study here outlined (I didn't read the original paper).

 

Do they mean plant as in leafy plus starchy vegetables or do they include any plant specieses (nuts and seeds, vegetables, fruit, cereals).

 

What about quantities of each amount of plants? Is there a minimum threshold below which the species does not add up to diversity?


Edited by mccoy, 08 June 2018 - 11:07 AM.


#6 pamojja

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:12 PM

A couple of things are not clear from the brief reports of that study here outlined (I didn't read the original paper).

 

Do they mean plant as in leafy plus starchy vegetables or do they include any plant specieses (nuts and seeds, vegetables, fruit, cereals).

 

What about quantities of each amount of plants? Is there a minimum threshold below which the species does not add up to diversity?

 

Though I haven't read the original paper neither, I do think they would specify if with different plant eaten last week they wouldn't mean any plant. Off course, if someone eats 80% as wheat or rice the remaining amounts would probably be to small to make much difference.
 

By surprise I turned out with a high diversity microbiome: https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=825010

 

But then, with above study results, not so much; When my health journey started 10 years ago with the diagnosis of PAD, I was fascinated by the detail that traditional diets associated with longevity contained easily a 100 different natural foods within a year, each again with up to 100, in most cases not even identified yet, phyto-nutrients.

Tried sort of replicating that by supplementing plant extracts (from up to 80 different plants). About 6 year ago that got another boost by adding in Ayurvedic plant extracts (an other 130 plants, though from 1 g/d down to most in mg amounts only).

Plants I ate for example almost every of the last few weeks: sauerkraut, red cabbage, natto, pickled cucumber, olives, beets, bitter gourd, bell peppers, carrots, tomato paste, chickpeas, blueberries, apples, oranges, macadamia, walnut, hazelnut, pekan nut, flax seed, pumpkin seed, black seed, coconut, spirulina, cocoa powder, coffee beans, tulsi tea, red wine (eggs, mackerel, sardines, honey, curds, aged cheese).. Therefore about ~25.
 

Such diverse dietary ingredients plus supplemental does explain my recent most diverse microbiome, even if my health hasn't totally caught up yet.


Edited by pamojja, 08 June 2018 - 04:13 PM.


#7 Darryl

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:00 PM

I could care less about α-diversity. Alpha diversity (roughly, number of species/strains present) seems largely fixed in childhood. I want to shift their relative composition (β-diversity) to health promoting enterotypes.

 

Also, frankly its about a decade too late for a meta interested in the Fermicutes/Bacteriodes ratio. qPCR changed everything. Those following this field are likely interested in what are the essential elements of the Akkermansia+saccharolytic guild (who are promoted by dietary fiber), and what dietary components selectively kill off pathobionts.


Edited by Darryl, 08 June 2018 - 10:01 PM.

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#8 pamojja

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:58 PM

I could care less about α-diversity. Alpha diversity (roughly, number of species/strains present) seems largely fixed in childhood. I want to shift their relative composition (β-diversity) to health promoting enterotypes.

 

I highly doubt. Because as a new-born got right away tetracycline IVs, and then for the first 10 years of life regular oral antibiotics for frequent infections. Don't think I would have such an unusual diversity, if my childhood microbiome still determined it. In my case high diversity also correlates with a 94.6% overlap to microbiomes of testpersons without any health issues. And there are many reports how a micro-biome can change very drastically even in a day.

 

http://phenomena.nat...icrobiome-self/
 

https://theconversation.com/i-spent-three-days-as-a-hunter-gatherer-to-see-if-it-would-improve-my-gut-health-78773

 

http://science.scien...nt/357/6353/802


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#9 hazy

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:01 AM

pamojja how do you know what microbiome you have currently? you say you have diverse microbiome thanks to your diet, how did you come to that fact?



#10 pamojja

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 09:47 AM

By surprise I turned out with a high diversity microbiome: https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=825010

 

pamojja how do you know what microbiome you have currently? you say you have diverse microbiome thanks to your diet, how did you come to that fact?

 

Did a free ubiome test almost a year ago. If you click on already posted link to the post about it, you'll find the link to the online results.

 

How I came to that suggestion (wouldn't call it fact) is, that I had got a serious chronic disease 10 years ago, therefore my microbiome shouldn't overlap with that of a healthy population at all. But this finding of higher dietary diversity - which I initiated 10 years ago - correlating with higher microbiome diversity would perfectly explain my otherwise surprising result. 4 years ago could reverse a 60% walking-disabilty from my disease, though I still suffer from CFS symptoms.

 

But you're right, if the microbiome can change in a day, I really don't know about it currently.. :unsure:


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#11 hazy

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 04:46 PM

free... it says 89 dollar fee. i dunno if i feel comfortable sending them my poop though. did you not request the 6 kits they offer so you can monitor your poop over time, err i mean bacteria



#12 pamojja

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 05:33 PM

free... it says 89 dollar fee. i dunno if i feel comfortable sending them my poop though. did you not request the 6 kits they offer so you can monitor your poop over time, err i mean bacteria

 

That was a special free promotion last year for some time for only one gut kit. Don't know if they ever will repeat such a generous offer. Personally wouldn't spent 89,- for this test yet -unless with serious gut problems  since it still it is not accurate enough on the species level yet.

 

Also counting one's different vegetables eaten last week seems a remarkable accurate method. ;) And its for free.


Edited by pamojja, 10 June 2018 - 05:36 PM.





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