32 replies to this topic

[iseethelight]

I'm fine before my workout, but right after or during my workout, mood drops..  I'm a total mess for the next 2 hours. I become depressed, anhedonic, and anxious to the point of being suicidal. This doesn't happen if I only eat vegan. But if I've had any animal protein during the day, I'm a total mess after my workout. I can't be a vegan, for many reasons. I tried it for a year, while I wasn't depressed, I was lethargic and didn't want to do anything.

Can this be excess  or lack of serotonin from tryptophan uptake which increases during workout? Does increase uptake increase then depletes serotonin or maybe increased serotonin is as bad? What other neurotransmitters are released during exercise?

[jack black]

i have a similar problem after exercise. it makes me tired/lethargic and depressed and always did as far as i remember. there is no runner high for me. heat makes it worse, cold shower makes it better.

i can tolerate low impact fine (walking).

I never linked it with diet, but high protein or high carb breakfast makes me tired too (different ways, more irritable after proteins, more lethargic after carbs). vaggies are the best for my wellbeing, but i'm not strictly vegetarian, as i eat meat from time to time (preferably fish and poultry).

 

dopamine/endorphins is supposed to be released after exercise, but it feels like it drops in my case. I do get "talking high," when i get to talk freely about things i care about with people i care about. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen often enough.

 

if you figure out something pertinent, please let me know.

[iseethelight]

Still battling this, worse than ever.  I believe this due to a release of serotonin or glutamate.

[resveratrol_guy]

If you can't stick to veganism, then try eggs in some appetizing form. It's the only animal protein that ever improved my cognition in a matter of hours, and still does. I suspect it would help with depression as well. Assuming you get sufficient omega 3, then I'd say that fish is overrated for its cognitive benefits, especially if you're already eating eggs.

 

Curcubrain wouldn't be a bad option, either, but too much of the stuff turns me into an artist as opposed to an engineer.

 

[Keizo]

For me whey protein is the only "food" that has had huge (negative) impact on my mood from time to time (but short duration, ~1hr), making me  tired and sometimes anxious. Another killer is sugary drinks in the morning or early day but that only matters if it is my main source of calories.

 

[Keizo]

These are just random suggestions that perhaps will help you figure things out:

try drinking a whey protein shake (make it big on the protein)

try eating 1000 grams of meat (nothing else) within an hour

try drinking some other kind of protein drink (again use a large amount)

Edited by Keizo, 01 July 2018 - 06:23 AM.

[iseethelight]

These are just random suggestions that perhaps will help you figure things out:

try drinking a whey protein shake (make it big on the protein)

try eating 1000 grams of meat (nothing else) within an hour

try drinking some other kind of protein drink (again use a large amount)

Why? If protein makes me worse after workouts, why load up.

[truboy]

had this a lot too when i had lots of grains in my diet (wheat, oats, etc)

 

try cutting our all grains and eat meat/fish/seafood + fruits + tubers + vegetables based diet and see what happens.

 

Now i feel amazing after workouts, actually i work out every day cause it's nootropic.

Edited by truboy, 01 July 2018 - 11:34 PM.

[StevesPetRat]

Exercise induces a leaky gut. Since your condition is sensitive to diet, maybe that's the problem?

 

Try drinking ice water during the workout and maybe some glutamine before and after. I think colostrum is also supposed to be effective. Could also use bromelain/pepsin/other enzymes to aid in protein digestion.

[jroseland]

That's odd.

 

You might want to start with very small, brief workouts and see if it has the same undesirable effect.

 

Or have you tried HIIT?

[iseethelight]

had this a lot too when i had lots of grains in my diet (wheat, oats, etc)

 

try cutting our all grains and eat meat/fish/seafood + fruits + tubers + vegetables based diet and see what happens.

 

Now i feel amazing after workouts, actually i work out every day cause it's nootropic.

 

It's much worse when I consume high protein, or tubers like potatoes and sweet potatoes. I didn't always use to be like this, only started last year. Might have done myself in with the millions of supplements I tried over the past 2 years.

I don't consume wheat, just oats and rice,

Edited by iseethelight, 05 July 2018 - 12:11 AM.

[Keizo]

Why? If protein makes me worse after workouts, why load up.

I thought if you needed to figure out more clearly what caused it, that's where I'd start.

 

 

Anyway insulin might have something to do with it, I just say this because whey protein AFAIK raises that more than almost anything else (which I assume is the main reason it makes me tired and anxious, at times). Although I wouldn't recommend shooting up insulin to compare effects, exogenous insulin  can be dangerous if you can't get enough sugar into the system fast.

[Major Legend]

Are there any papers linking the two for some people? I certainly don't get the purported "endorphins" from exercise either.

[crzyakta]

Based on what you have described, (exercise, heat, meat), it sounds like your depression might be getting triggered by excessive inflammation.  All three of those factors you mentioned can exacerbate it, for exercise / weight lifting read up on the 'repeated bout effect' and 'inflammation'.

 

There are already a ton of studies on acute inflammation and depression, exercise can worsen it.  Essentially, when you are in a state of DOMs, your body does not want you to move (due to wear tear / inflammation), the depressive state is supposed to reduce chances of further damage, triggering you to rest instead.

 

For me, exercise is a necessity, I just make sure that if I take time off, when I return to the gym, I ease in.  Ever try a heavy leg day or hard run after taking time off (even just 1 week)?  Im sure you've seen how profound DOMs can be on your mood...good luck

Edited by crzyakta, 09 July 2018 - 08:51 PM.

[John250]

i have a similar problem after exercise. it makes me tired/lethargic and depressed and always did as far as i remember. there is no runner high for me. heat makes it worse, cold shower makes it better.
i can tolerate low impact fine (walking).
I never linked it with diet, but high protein or high carb breakfast makes me tired too (different ways, more irritable after proteins, more lethargic after carbs). vaggies are the best for my wellbeing, but i'm not strictly vegetarian, as i eat meat from time to time (preferably fish and poultry).

dopamine/endorphins is supposed to be released after exercise, but it feels like it drops in my case. I do get "talking high," when i get to talk freely about things i care about with people i care about. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen often enough.

if you figure out something pertinent, please let me know.

I never noticed any endorphin release after working out. Maybe because my workouts are extreme bodybuilding type but I’m always fatigued and tired afterwards. Also if I train really hard anymore than two days in a row without a break I end up getting flu like symptoms. Achy. Seems like it’s inflammatory but I take every anti-inflammatory Supplement you can think of. Although when I do feel that flu like achiness The only thing that takes away is high dose ibprophen(1000-1200mg) in fact even opiates don’t relieve the pain only ibprophen. All my blood biomarkers for inflammatory are good as well which is odd.

Edited by John250, 09 July 2018 - 09:32 PM.

[John250]

For me whey protein is the only "food" that has had huge (negative) impact on my mood from time to time (but short duration, ~1hr), making me tired and sometimes anxious. Another killer is sugary drinks in the morning or early day but that only matters if it is my main source of calories.

The sugar would make sense but what types of protein? Protein shakes or meats or any form?

[Matt]

i have a similar problem after exercise. it makes me tired/lethargic and depressed and always did as far as i remember. there is no runner high for me.

 

 

I had this problem when I was deficient in zinc. It went away after taking zinc picolinate.

[William Sterog]

Exercise do the same for me, it is terrible, I used to be in a really good shape, but I crashed due to unknown reasons and I lost all my gains, I lost 18kg. Now I have been suffering from extreme lethargy after exercising and finding no benefits whatsoever in my workouts for almost three years. Cardio, weightlifting, HIIT... It doesn't matter. My body doesn't adapt, no matter how much rest I allow it to have, I'm in terrible shape, worse than people that don't exercise at all, I'm absolutely unable to put some weight, I'm extremely thin, and my stomach get sick if I try to increase the calories. The fatigue I experiment is inmense, I doesn't even allow me to think.

Edited by William Sterog, 10 July 2018 - 05:24 AM.

[Keizo]

The sugar would make sense but what types of protein? Protein shakes or meats or any form?

I'm not 100% sure about protein in general, for myself I'm mostly sure about whey protein powder mixed with water or milk (circa 30-50g protein in total). I have had the occasional huge meals consisting of almost entirely fish/meat in huge quantities (close to 1000 grams fish/meat)  that did bring on fatigue and tiredness more so than anxiety, so for me that's a bit different than the whey protein shakes. 

 

Here's something:

https://en.wikipedia...dial_somnolence

[jack black]

Exercise do the same for me, it is terrible, I used to be in a really good shape, but I crashed due to unknown reasons and I lost all my gains, I lost 18kg. Now I have been suffering from extreme lethargy after exercising and finding no benefits whatsoever in my workouts for almost three years. Cardio, weightlifting, HIIT... It doesn't matter. My body doesn't adapt, no matter how much rest I allow it to have, I'm in terrible shape, worse than people that don't exercise at all, I'm absolutely unable to put some weight, I'm extremely thin, and my stomach get sick if I try to increase the calories. The fatigue I experiment is inmense, I doesn't even allow me to think.

 

CFS?

[John250]

I'm not 100% sure about protein in general, for myself I'm mostly sure about whey protein powder mixed with water or milk (circa 30-50g protein in total). I have had the occasional huge meals consisting of almost entirely fish/meat in huge quantities (close to 1000 grams fish/meat) that did bring on fatigue and tiredness more so than anxiety, so for me that's a bit different than the whey protein shakes.

Here's something:
https://en.wikipedia...dial_somnolence

What was the brand? Was it whey concentrate or isolate?

Exercise do the same for me, it is terrible, I used to be in a really good shape, but I crashed due to unknown reasons and I lost all my gains, I lost 18kg. Now I have been suffering from extreme lethargy after exercising and finding no benefits whatsoever in my workouts for almost three years. Cardio, weightlifting, HIIT... It doesn't matter. My body doesn't adapt, no matter how much rest I allow it to have, I'm in terrible shape, worse than people that don't exercise at all, I'm absolutely unable to put some weight, I'm extremely thin, and my stomach get sick if I try to increase the calories. The fatigue I experiment is inmense, I doesn't even allow me to think.

Same thing for me except I didn’t lose my gains probably because I’m on testosterone. There’s definitely a reason why it happened though. Mine is from too much amphetamine use. Think back around the time when it occurred and if you had life stressors or if anything else happen? If you added or subtracted any supplements?

[William Sterog]

What was the brand? Was it whey concentrate or isolate?

Same thing for me except I didn’t lose my gains probably because I’m on testosterone. There’s definitely a reason why it happened though. Mine is from too much amphetamine use. Think back around the time when it occurred and if you had life stressors or if anything else happen? If you added or subtracted any supplements?

The only thing that happened around that time is that I started to get sick from the stomach and feel very depressed in general. The only supplement that was relatively new back then was Noopept, but I actually felt that Noopept was helping me when I was feeling terrible. I don't take it anymore, and I have tried going off supplements altogether without success. Testosterone may play a role, because my libido is almost not existent since that crash.

[John250]

The only thing that happened around that time is that I started to get sick from the stomach and feel very depressed in general. The only supplement that was relatively new back then was Noopept, but I actually felt that Noopept was helping me when I was feeling terrible. I don't take it anymore, and I have tried going off supplements altogether without success. Testosterone may play a role, because my libido is almost not existent since that crash.

Definitely get total and free testosterone but also get luteinizing hormone checked that is extremely important.

[Major Legend]

Is there a genetic factor? I find working out 2 days a week is optimal for me anymore i get too tired and actually lose mass. I wonder why some people feel amazing after working out and others like myself don't : /

Another one might be hormonal, I find I just don't have the "bounce" to do so much working out anymore, my energy could be spent somewhere else, but the moment I take something hormonal out of my biohacking toolkit I feel like working out is great. Could it be something that drops off after a certain age? Can't be as simple as test levels?

 

I've never ever got runners high, just sleepers low. 

[John250]

Is there a genetic factor? I find working out 2 days a week is optimal for me anymore i get too tired and actually lose mass. I wonder why some people feel amazing after working out and others like myself don't : /

Another one might be hormonal, I find I just don't have the "bounce" to do so much working out anymore, my energy could be spent somewhere else, but the moment I take something hormonal out of my biohacking toolkit I feel like working out is great. Could it be something that drops off after a certain age? Can't be as simple as test levels?

I've never ever got runners high, just sleepers low.

Genetics play a huge role. Some people I know can train two hours a day seven days a week and still have optimal energy Drug free. Then again some people get energy from an orange. I’m jealous. Genetically I am a low MAO-B Producer which is probably why I’m the opposite. Also why I love amphetamines.

My next attempt for energy is to experiment with my iron. My blood work shows my iron serum and ferritin are in range but in the lower end. My TIBC is normal which would rule out an iron disorder but I’m going to start supplementing with bisglycinate.

Edited by John250, 12 July 2018 - 01:01 AM.

[aribadabar]

My next attempt for energy is to experiment with my iron. My blood work shows my iron serum and ferritin are in range but in the lower end. My TIBC is normal which would rule out an iron disorder but I’m going to start supplementing with bisglycinate.

 

Whatever you do , don't go below 50 ferritin as it will take years and you may never regain it on diet alone.

Talking from experience.

 

50-80 is the sweet spot. Below and above that is either anemic or toxic.

[John250]

Whatever you do , don't go below 50 ferritin as it will take years and you may never regain it on diet alone.
Talking from experience.

50-80 is the sweet spot. Below and above that is either anemic or toxic.

I’m at 29 range 20-345. Several hematologist told me it’s completely normal but I disagree. I think this is why am so fatigued all the time. I’m going to increase it with iron.

[aribadabar]

I’m at 29 range 20-345. Several hematologist told me it’s completely normal but I disagree. I think this is why am so fatigued all the time. I’m going to increase it with iron.

 

Fire your hematologist. 29 may be "normal" for a menstruating woman, not for a male who does not make frequent blood donations and is on omnivore diet.

Bump up that beef liver (most bioavailable heme-iron) intake for a at least 6 months and see if it will coast you back to the other side of 50.

Most(not all) iron supplements may cause constipation and may do nothing for your iron blood levels.

 

Yes, it is a big factor in feeling fatigued.

[John250]

Fire your hematologist. 29 may be "normal" for a menstruating woman, not for a male who does not make frequent blood donations and is on omnivore diet.
Bump up that beef liver (most bioavailable heme-iron) intake for a at least 6 months and see if it will coast you back to the other side of 50.
Most(not all) iron supplements may cause constipation and may do nothing for your iron blood levels.

Yes, it is a big factor in feeling fatigued.

Can’t do beef liver or vomit. I’ve been supplementing with iron bisglycinate and lactoferrin and foods like black strap molasses, dark green, red meat, etc.

[dopaminerush]

A lot of wrong info going on here. DOMS which is Connective tissue inflamation is nothing to do with immune interleukin-6 based brain inflamation. Even you get shitloads of inflamation on your tendons,joints ..etc from sports  it will lower brain inflamation anyway.

İt wil lower the inflamation your getting from diet too.

 

And weightlifting +  cardio  have huge antidepressant anxiolytic effect. Better than zoloft according to a study with better quality remission.

 

Are you taking any stimulans pre-workout ? 

 

You may be  have some mineral,vitamin deffiency and because of that your body pumping too much adrenaline, cortisol to compansate whats lacking that end up with shitty mood.

 

i was like you in past after correcting iron deffiency and suplementing with magnesium zinc and upping D3 levels to 55  im getting high from workouts now and its amazing. 

 

But please guys stop there is nothing with if you are doing right amount of intensity,freq,volume  there is no way excersize can give you shitty mood. Its not excersize its you. There is something wrong with you.