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Trying Welloft

zoloft wellbutrin

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#1 vader

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 02:51 PM


I'm now trialing Welloft. I've been on Luvox, Prozac. Luvox is straight up brain trainquillizer, wipes SA but tiredness and brain fog is too much to handle. Low dose Prozac (20mg) had beneficial effect on energy, higher dose didn't work as well (probably 5ht2c effects waned). Now I'm on Zoloft 200mg and trying Wellbutrin 150mg. Might up to 300mg Zoloft and 300mg Wellbutrin. My problems are mainly anhedonia, amotivation, anergy, etc. SSRI help slightly with anxiety and OCD like symptoms, but something is missing and they affect my cognition, so we will see how Welloft works as a combo. Piracetam here and there, but only seems to help slightly in low doses (circa 600mg).

 

Anyone ever tried to combine Zoloft and Wellbutrin? What after this combo to try if it fails?



#2 CWF1986

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 04:38 AM

You might want to try an SNRI instead of Zoloft if that doesn't work.  Have you tried 450mg Wellbutrin?  For me Wellbutrin helps with "anhedonia, amotivation, anergia, etc" which is why I ask.  If I were in your shoes and I didn't think raising the Wellbutrin dose would cause intolerable sides that would be the first thing to change if this combo in it's current form doesn't work.   SSRIs don't help at all with those symptoms of depression for me and many others.  It mostly just stabilizes my mood into an uncomfortable constant emotional numbness whereas antidepressants with NRI activity help more with the vegetative symptoms of depression.  But SSRIs can be a god-send to those with a more anxious depression.  Wellbutrin also has it's anti Nachr effects too which has something to do with its AD effect.  

 

 



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#3 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:32 AM

If the combo doesn't help, I would suggest you go for something more unusual:

 

MOCLOBEMIDE! = )

 

A newer, reversible MAOI - the oldest class of antidepressants. It doesn't have the same dietary restrictions as traditional MAOI's, and have been seen to have an effect on

a wide variety of disorders - MAOI's have also been seen to have a greater effect on ATYPICAL depression, which it sounds as if you have.

 

Here, read up a bit on it:

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Moclobemide

 

 

Moclobemide appears to affect a wide, wide variety of systems in your brain, and hence why it has an effect on multiple types of diseases.



#4 vader

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 03:59 PM

Day 2 of taking Wellbutrin XL:

 

+ Libido seems slightly up. I'm got a few random erections (first in fucking years). Feeling energetic, but still anhedonic. Laughing more maybe.

- Depersonalized like shit and harder to focus, had problems with verbal recovery (than again, i'm recovering from c2h5oh abuse, so not sure if it is related or not)

 

SXes that drive me bonkers from Zoloft continue: blurry vision and accomodation problems.

 

Overall seems promising. This in theory is a SNDRI (like cocaine lol), so it should hit at least something with decent enough force. Stahl likes Welloft along with Californian Rocket Fuel.



#5 CWF1986

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 03:37 AM

Day 2 of taking Wellbutrin XL:

 

+ Libido seems slightly up. I'm got a few random erections (first in fucking years). Feeling energetic, but still anhedonic. Laughing more maybe.

- Depersonalized like shit and harder to focus, had problems with verbal recovery (than again, i'm recovering from c2h5oh abuse, so not sure if it is related or not)

 

SXes that drive me bonkers from Zoloft continue: blurry vision and accomodation problems.

 

Overall seems promising. This in theory is a SNDRI (like cocaine lol), so it should hit at least something with decent enough force. Stahl likes Welloft along with Californian Rocket Fuel.

 

The verbal recall and depersonalization is probably from the Nachr antagonism.  In most people, it'll downregulate those receptors until in upregulates them.  In a minority, the upregulation never happens and there stuck with those sides.  For me, I was spacey and my working and short term memory went down the tube until it had the opposite effect in about a week for me.   

 

And Wellbutrin is not a SNDRI.  It's an NDRI and selected Nachr antagonist.  



#6 Galaxyshock

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 05:15 AM

And Wellbutrin is not a SNDRI.  It's an NDRI and selected Nachr antagonist.  

 

Actually it barely has affinity for dopamine either when taken orally. It is NRI + NA releasing agent + that nicotine achr antagonism.

 

If you want SNDRI, get Perika St. John's Wort.



#7 CWF1986

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 09:17 AM

@Vader

 

Now I see what you mean... the combo of Wellbutrin and Zolloft is like an SNDRI.  My bad.



#8 vader

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 03:03 PM

Day 3 and day 4:

 

Feeling witty and talking with at least 30 - 50% my normal verbal speed. Fluency decidedly enhanced. Seems like my vocab has increased and I can really use quite rare words with ease - had this intermittently before, when using b-complex or fasting or with intense exercise regimens, but only in short windows. Time flow maybe accelerated, hard to say. Slept less hours today, but still had enough energy through the day.

 

Very weird, but I seem to be responding at least in the cognitive space. My verbal abilities were never particularly bad, but now I feel like they are improving a whole fucking lot. No constipation yet.

 

Still smoking, maybe this offsets the nicotinic antagonism. I also feel less inhibition, started to swear more and be less reserved. The feel is not manic/hypo-manic, because I still feel anhedonia & depersonalization. I don't feel connected at all, but I would be very happy to at least get well cognitively.


Edited by vader, 27 June 2018 - 03:07 PM.


#9 vader

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 03:06 PM

It's weird, because most people say Wellbutrin made them retarded and slowed their cognition. Why would it have reverse effect on me during the first few days? Do I have ADHD or atypical depression and need NE and DA more than serotonin? Or maybe the nicotinic receptor / anticholinergic properties are somehow responsible for this effect.



#10 CWF1986

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 10:22 AM

Personally, I got cognitive and energy benefits before my mood lifted.  It took about 5 weeks for me to get the full benefits of Wellbutrin.  



#11 vader

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 08:35 AM

Day 7:

 

Increased to 300mg. Had two days with brain-fog. Not much to report, maybe better word retrieval, but that's it. Seems to also offset ortostatic hypotension i get from zoloft. This is a well rounded combo, no issues with sleep, which is suprising. Some muscle aches here and there. Energy levels reached a plateu. Pulse is around 80 and blood pressure 120/80 (not great, but still smoking and drinking too much coffee).

 

Exercising on this drug is really a breeze.



#12 vader

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:56 PM

Day 7:

 

Increased to 300mg. Had two days with brain-fog. Not much to report, maybe better word retrieval, but that's it. Seems to also offset ortostatic hypotension i get from zoloft. This is a well rounded combo, no issues with sleep, which is suprising. Some muscle aches here and there. Energy levels reached a plateu. Pulse is around 80 and blood pressure 120/80 (not great, but still smoking and drinking too much coffee).

 

Exercising on this drug is really a breeze.

 

Had a nap since then and time seems to be dilated. Will keep you guys posted.



#13 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 05:21 PM

Had a nap since then and time seems to be dilated. Will keep you guys posted.

 

What do you mean... "time seems to be dilated" - you feel as if your reaction-time is faster, and/or you can do a lot more things in a shorter amount of time, then what you could before?



#14 vader

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 06:32 PM

What do you mean... "time seems to be dilated" - you feel as if your reaction-time is faster, and/or you can do a lot more things in a shorter amount of time, then what you could before?

 

Not really more productive, but it felt like I percepted time before going anhedonic / dysthymic. Like there was more to my time perception, whereas normally I can't figure out time-flow correctly and especially time tends to go by way too fast (I think it has something to do with emotional connection, ie. emotions have influence on memory formation or nachr antagonism).

 

Today is 10th day and third day on 300mg. Had dry mouth (sucks) during the day and felt definitely way too speedy / anxious. Went away in a few hours, I'm worried I might be a fast metabolizer (hence why Zoloft didn't work much, same enzyme...). Felt wicked sexual desire at moments, really weird - not out of nothing, but as response to visual stimuli. Also seems like I get not maybe angry, but I stand my ground more. Maybe an increase in tinnitus. Still smoking.

 

Wicked sense of smell on this thing!



#15 CWF1986

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:31 PM

Be sure to get your blood pressure and pulse checked.  I'd give it some time to see if the 'speedy' sides go away, but if not you might do better with just the 150mg.  



#16 vader

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 03:47 PM

Day 11:

 

Seems like I'm more or less back to baseline, except now I have "vision" effects similar to piracetam. When I'm outside the world seems "lit" so to speak, but still I feel somewhat disconnected. This drug definately does something to the cholinergic system.

I seem to be more confident - looked in the eye of a cashier today and cracked a smile, I feel more in control so to speak. Swearing more, weird.



#17 vader

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:34 PM

Day 13:

 

I think 300mg is too much. Dry mouth and anxiety is very bad, cognition seems worsened a lot - I am daydreaming all the time.



#18 vader

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:10 PM

Now I'm back to good cognition at hour 22:00. Wtf



#19 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:24 PM

Now I'm back to good cognition at hour 22:00. Wtf

 

Might want to cut the 300 mg down a bit - go for 150 + 75 instead.
 



#20 vader

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 10:48 AM

I've switched today to 150mg. Seems like most of the negative effects of 300mg have been anticholinergic in nature (dry mouth, spaced out) and a shit-load of NE inhibition (heart literally pounding).

 

Will try to go with 150mg for a while. I think next i will hit mirtazapine with snri or maybe amitryptiline.



#21 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 10:59 AM

I've switched today to 150mg. Seems like most of the negative effects of 300mg have been anticholinergic in nature (dry mouth, spaced out) and a shit-load of NE inhibition (heart literally pounding).

 

Will try to go with 150mg for a while. I think next i will hit mirtazapine with snri or maybe amitryptiline.

 

Depending on which EU-country you are in, you might be able to get a prescription for MILNACIPRAN - it's the first fairly balanced, selective SNRI.

 

Might be better than going for California or Limerick Rocket-Fuel.

 

(although Amitriptyline is hella' dope in the various reviews - if you don't get the sedation, then Amitrip' is more or less the drug to beat - amazing stuff intravenously, when it comes to suicide-prevention)



#22 vader

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 01:35 PM

Depending on which EU-country you are in, you might be able to get a prescription for MILNACIPRAN - it's the first fairly balanced, selective SNRI.

 

Might be better than going for California or Limerick Rocket-Fuel.

 

(although Amitriptyline is hella' dope in the various reviews - if you don't get the sedation, then Amitrip' is more or less the drug to beat - amazing stuff intravenously, when it comes to suicide-prevention)

 

It is available here, although prohibitively expensive. Duloxetine is also a fairly balanced SNRI, afaik.

 

Anyway, Welloft is no joke. This combo IS strong, I'm curious how Wellbutrin fares on it's own. Jaiho recovered on something similar from what I remember (I think SSRI + Nortryptyline).

 

Wenlaflaxine has some interesting pro-cognitive benefits, albeit less normalizing than Wellbutrin in MDD. Maybe Wenla + Wellbutrin + Mirtazapine would be good, but taking three major antidepressants seems excessive, might as well at this point go to MAOi.


Edited by vader, 07 July 2018 - 01:42 PM.


#23 vader

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:15 PM

Having crying spells. Can't remember last time I cried. It felt genuine, like the crying was connected somehow. Weird.

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#24 CWF1986

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 06:21 AM

Are you experiencing improvement in the depression symptoms you listed in your OP?






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